Senior MET officer leads by example ...........

Good post from blackrock

Age has to taken into consideration , it’s a young mans game and Mackey May have  been let down by his younger colleagues in the car ( if they were younger )

Mackey had the authority to tell his subordinates to open the fckin door and help the other brave coppers. He didn't, he shat himself.

Yes I think everyone realises that

But if someone tells you to close the door it gives you an excuse , stops you momentarily makes you think if he hadn’t said that then things may have been different

Anything like that can be enough , just the slightest thing

He convinced himself in a fraction of a second that it was the right thing to do
Shouldn’t have been said

Well you said he may have been let down by his younger colleagues.

I don't have a problem with Mackey crapping himself in the face of danger.

My issue is with a system that seems to think it's ok to give a Knighthood to a senior copper (why - he's paid enough!!) and by so doing make him think he's Field Marshal Monty and so important as to be kept safe.

Deluded system. Deluded management. Meanwhile Palmer has his fists to defend himself against someone who wants to cut him up.

Yes, it was his younger colleague who gave him the excuse not to react as he might have done

He didn’t think he was that important , not really

We don't know what he might have done we do know what he didn't do. Anything else is an unfounded guess.

lfc1971 • October 11, 2018 9:35 PM BST
Yes, it was his younger colleague who gave him the excuse not to react as he might have done

Was it ? How do you know that ?

as I said , if they were younger

Why didn't he try to get the driver to run the sack of sh1t over ?

and as I said they ‘ may’ have let him down

And then as I said if someone said close the door that can be enough to make someone stop
The brain subconsciously is looking for an excuse , it doesn’t have to even make sense

ok with that ?

These are very basic principles , that’s why the army needs young men , not old men
It’s been that way forever and doesn’t change

How do we know that he was told to lock the car doors and stay put ?

He sayed so 

That doesn't mean that it actually happened does it ?

Reynard who said it did happen
I believe it did , I do think he would have said it if it didn’t
Now you can believe what you like

I don’t think he would have said it if it didn’t happen

I don’t really care if you believe it or not

I seem to recall that every police officer on duty at Hillsborough on that fateful day changed their own , and others , statements to hide the truth , cos the truth means naff all to them .
In the case of Mackey there were only 3 people present in the car so it wouldn't have been very difficult to work out some story to lessen the impact of what he actually did or didn't do .

Now that doesn’t make any sense now does it ?

How exactly does that lesson the impact of what he did ?

that lesson

freydian

en

mais oui

Just over a year ago a serving police officer , who I had only ever met once previously and didn't know my full name , made a statement naming myself and placing me somewhere that I hadn't been and wearing clothes I have never worn or possessed , acting 'suspiciously' . Add to that the fact that he described circumstances in which it would have been impossible to identify anybody ie. he was alone and negotiating a difficult junction in a dark , unlit area . When my solicitor asked if they had double checked using cctv in the area or if there were any independant witnesses to support his statement they ended the interview . This police officer is associated with somebody who I'd 'upset' and he probably owed them a 'favour' .
They are corrupt from top to bottom , but many people either accept it or refuse to believe it ................. until they find themselves on the receiving end

so what?

You’re still not making any sense

Ok , fair enough , forget it .................

now don’t sulk , it’s you who is talking nonsense

Maybe I am but the point I am trying to make is that you cannot take anything the police state , either in a court or a public inquiry , because they have a long history of either distorting the truth or lying .

i used to be a fan of plod

not now

corrupt throughout

The country is corrupt throughout , much worse than the police from top to bottom of society

Capt_F - Many of our generation (that's an assumption btw) who were brought up to respect the police and only to fear them if you were breaking the law .
Now many of us have no respect for the police and even fear them where there has been no criminal offence committed .
This change in perception has not occurred by accident , it is based on historical evidence and in some cases personal experience .

lfc - 11.43 - I agree totally , but the police are supposed to uphold the law against crime and corruption , therefore police corruption is far more serious .

The have to switch the tv off to stop listening to the lying *****

I have stared down the barrel of a loaded gun on more than one occasion , yet sitting in a police cell wondering how you are going to defend yourself against downright lies rates as the most scary thing I have ever faced

On This Week Portillos "Moment of the week" is on the subject of the epidemic of the police witholding evidence / information in order to get convictions of innocent people....

When I presented evidence that proved that I was actually the victim of a property fraud they totally ignored the evidence and charged me with offences relating to how I acquired the evidence !
When I was released on bail I returned to find a car , belonging to one of the fraudsters , waiting outside my flat and had to make my way to a friends to stay in relative safety for a couple of days . How did they know what time I was going to be released ? Can't be proved though I think it's blindingly obvious .

And when my flat was raided they took my spare keys but they have not returned them and have denied they removed them . I no longer feel safe in my own home ffs

yes the portillo thing was rather frightening but then many already knew of the scandal

what on earth can an individual do when faced with this - judge and jury will believe the polis

The blame doesn't lie with the desk jockey looking to leave his meeting. This happened very quickly. It lies with the complete naivety of a security operation that left 2 unarmed officers at the gates of the most likely target in the country, with nothing more than a stab vest.

They're actually lucky this was a lone wolf, lacking the capacity of the myriad of firearm attacks we've seen across the globe. The country needs to show some strength. Fantastic that we all show pluck and resolution, but wake up to the threat with some practical solutions.

If there was an organised attack on the House of Commons on the scale of the Mumbai hotel attack a few years ago I doubt very much if two unarmed bobbies on the main gate would be sufficient protection

You can't be seen tooling up against a threat which you are pretending 'will not change the way we live'.

Now that's an interesting angle

That's a good point saddo.

Mind you all the barriers, bollards walls etc that have been built to guard points of interest are a give away.

I think the criticism of this senior officer in his late 50's is totally out of order. As an experienced officer having walked the walk in the past,(you used to have to earn your "stripes" so to speak before you moved up the ladder, or in other words, learn to walk before you ran)...... i.e. done his time on the streets as a pc, he will know, as the line from the Kenny Rogers song goes....you gotta know when to hold em...know when to fold em, know when to walk away and know when to run....... Meaning you make an instantaneous assessment of any situation/incident, and decide whether to act immediately or hang back and call and wait for back up.

My question would be, why in the current climate is a very senior met police officer being driven around London by unarmed civilians?!

If anyone in their late 50's(or younger for that matter), and with not even a truncheon on them, thinks they would have a chance against a much bigger man with a knife in both hands......then dream on and continue with your armchair fantasies/morality. He would have just committed suicide.....simple as......and his family would have only been able to console themselves with reports of what a hero he was and how much he loved the job.......a bit like the parents of our fallen soldiers lately, who can only find comfort in the belief that their son/daughter lost their life for a worthwhile cause and loved what they were doing.
Instead, he and his family are trying to come to terms with him being wrongly labelled as a coward......imo of course......

Remove Mackey and his Common Purpose comrades .

Now that is a separate issue ......

That is a very good post Layemall.

Thanks Acey.....is just my opinion, which is based partly on personal experience......

I agree , it is a very well written post and layemall clearly speaks from a position of experience within this specific institution , and probably a far more informed opinion than mine or anyone elses for that matter . However , at a time when there is talk of the police 'losing the streets' with knife crime , acid attacks and moped crime rife , not to mention the continued threat posed by terrorists in our midst , this has more to do with public perception and the public , it would appear , deem Mackey's action/lack of action as cowardice .
At a time where many people live in greater fear than they have ever done before , with the exception of times of war , they are presented with an example of a leading figure in the force whose duty is to 'serve and protect' who chooses to abandon a fellow officer . There are countless examples of serving police officers , some 'off-duty' , who have lost their lives in attempting to apprehend dangerous armed assailants who posed a real and present danger to law-abiding citizens (layemall may even have known such a brave individual) .
I'm sorry if it offends anyone but I'll stand by my original opinion . (sir) Craig Mackey is a coward

This government expects the public to believe the rubbish they spout about there being no correlation between the number of coppers walking the streets and the level of crime.....it is absolute tosh imo.......and I truly don't think that the public believe it either.
Just take a simple example that most of us have experienced...........you are walking home from the pub late at night on your own......and half a dozen pissed up blokes are walking your way on the same side of the pavement.....then you notice a copper on the other side of the street say maybe 50 yards away.....or you don't.....2 totally different scenarios.....with possibly 2 different outcomes.
There will be some who want to vent their anger at this officer for his lack of action, but I think the public are clued up enough not to see him as a scapegoat for the lack of police that they see(or don't) on the streets.

3 men in the car? Which way did they drive?

When did it become illegal to be pissed and walking along the road?

Why would anybody expect a policeman to confront them?

use your imagination......didn't think I had to fill in all the blanks!!

or mirror a painting by numbers explanation!

A group of guys walking home drunk, what action do you want the police to take?

same reply to you

If I am walking down the road and 6 boisterous drunks are approaching me, which happens regularly, what`s the problem with that?

".with possibly 2 different outcomes".......there's your clue

We were all young once. As long as they are not bothering passing individuals - verbally or physically - what is the problem?

I was never any good at 3-2-1

I wouldn't expect the police to do anything. Why would they?

I'm struggling too see the point you are trying to make?

hmmmmmmm.....point is......they are........with 2 possible outcomes at least......the more advanced book....counting down from 10 not 3

I'm struggling too see the point you are trying to make?

To be fair I think you're struggling to see the point as well

I fully understand the point that is being made and concur that there are 2 possible outcomes :-

a) . They are happy drunks and it may require a minor adjustment of step in order to negotiate their lack of coordination and sense of direction , but in the event of a minor bump the least inebriated of their number will slur an apology in your general direction and all parties shall continue on their way ......

b) . They are nasty drunks and observing a sole pedestrian decide to become aggressive . Completely outnumbered and unarmed you look across the road and observe a police officer and a wave of relief sweeps over you . You then look a little closer and realise that the officer is none other than Sir Craig Mackey who is instantly recognisable from various newspaper items following the inquest into the Westminster Bridge attacks . At the same time your heart sinks as you make eye contact with the now demoted PC Mackey and , as the ringleader lands his first blow to the side of your head , you can see the officer turn on his heels to make his escape . A further series of blows reign in from his fellow thugs and as you go to ground you see PC Mackey disappearing over the park railings and into the darkness ...............

I wish to make it clear that scenario b) would never have entered my furtive imagination a week ago

I like that explanation, albeit b) makes an assumption that may or may not be true....as the scenario wasn't a bloke running up the street towards you with a knife in each hand!........ but it.may help others to paint a picture in their mind and grasp the point being made......on the other hand........

This forum just gets funnier and funnier.
What about you look over and see someone like Geoff Capes in his heyday.
Or on the other hand it could be Bill who used to be Sally before the op.

layemall • October 13, 2018 11:05 PM BST

b) makes an assumption that may or may not be true

Which assumption is that , Pray tell ?

ummmmmmmmm.....let me think.........oh yes..........that he runs away.....

akabula........very good point.......a modern day example and one from the distant past though!!

.... and number two is the copper aka

We should have a law that forbids drunks to walk home with any more than 1 other drunk.
That would solve layemalls problem. We could maybe have exceptions for triplets and Siamese twins would only count as one.

I think "intellectually challenged" is the politically correct term that would describe you......

A police officer running away is not something that would have readily come to mind until very recently . Now I'm not so sure . This seems to have given any copper the green light to flee the scene of an assault and make up some story at a later date as to why he chose to take evasive action (No PPE , H&S , Risk Assessment or any other weak , politically correct bullsh1t) .

or.....you just don't venture out into the real world enough!!

How about "I decided not to challenge the knife weilding assailant cos I was fearful of offending him . I was about to order him to 'drop your weapon sir' but then it occurred to me that if the knifeman identified as a woman then I could find myself the subject of an investigation" .
Sound a bit far-fetched to you ? Suddenly it seems like a real possibility !

used to think police had something about them

i 54

What a world you live in layemall.

I did too Capt_F , I had plenty of dealings with Flying Squad back in the day and they were decent blokes but more recently I've grown to loathe 'em . Corrupt from top to bottom . I fully understand layemall leaping to the defence of his ex-colleagues but even he must be becoming more aware of the public resentment (regardless of class or ethnicity) .

Must be difficult for them nowadays, trying to do a challenging job with a feeling that their hands are tied behind their backs(orders from above).....job satisfaction must be at an all time low for some of them .......

That is the first intelligent thing you have said, that Aka is "intellectually challenged", we can't argue about that.

(orders from above)

So you too are aware of the instruction to pursue and convict as many 'non-ethnic minorities' in order to balance the books ?

Does that resentment spread to the police officer who was killed in this incident?
Dangerous to generalise. I think most do the job they are paid to do.

Naaah , most do the job they are told to do . Massive difference

... bet you didn't know that he was the Dux medallist at the Oban School for backward boys

More myths and fantasy in this thread than in anything Mr Andersen ever wr

.... sorry Aka, I am taking a turn

Get your facts right Mac
It was for backward boys and girls.

akabula • October 13, 2018 11:43 PM BST
Does that resentment spread to the police officer who was killed in this incident?

Not an easy question to answer without giving it plenty of thought .......

That was too aka reynard.

and on the subject of getting facts right.......am not defending ex colleagues.....they are not.....nor am I aware of any instructions they may get from above.....just my views based on what I read and conclude......

Fair comment , layemall , but the day has arrived where we actually have to ask others "Where exactly did you see/read/hear that?" and that is one of the saddest things of all .
With trust comes love , so without trust we surround ourselves with hate and suspicion

It begins at the universities and they have seized a grip on a country wide narrative. Been going on for several decades now transmuted into upper echelons of institutions.

seized a grip!!!!   what dreadful engerlicsh   argh!!!!!!!!!!!  and trans-muted  has nothing to do with my mob either before any of you make any catty remarks

man city were up 1 -0 after one minute (1231)- what a bet that was