NHS crisis

it not cos they are just p1ssed but because they cant handle the booze and get into the fights and need patching up--bless!

I just don't want people to get away with biased untruthful statements - on any platform

hope this helps

the darling blair set up quit a lot of what we are reaping

the open doors policy (for votes) and the private public money scam we are still paying for

we now have up to 8 million extra here

also 40 million owed by foreign tourists having babies and clearing off

but that is just right wing lies of course

no it was the tories that started PFI IN 1991-92

The NHS is very likely to be making a net profit from treating non-UK patients.

Only very likely? If we are not why would we treat them?

For the same reason that you or I would get treatment.

EU law means that British people travelling in the European Economic Area get emergency treatment on the same terms as a local.

40 million they are unable to get back
hope this helps

sorry anxious
but................

PFI deals were invented in 1992 by the Conservative government led by Sir John Major, but became widespread under Labour after 1997. The schemes usually involved large scale buildings such as new schools and hospitals, or infrastructure projects which would previously have been publicly funded by the Treasury.

Like i stated earlier the Tories invented the policy and New Labour carried it on , it was carried on by the coaltion too

80 million in cash has already been extracted by the initial developers from the deal at Pinderfields, Wakefield in a few short years. The trust will be in hock for 30 years.

sorry to have spoilt your day anxious  - this is why I am suspicious of certain posters and certain media tv outlets in only providing one view

the tory government under blair was the worst of the lot

I am ashamed to say I was a party member through all of this including being anti eu then seeing the party turning 180 degrees but then there were nice jobs on the gravy train for the kinnocks

no - everything Labour is not necessarily good  and in fact quite a lot bad - doing a great deal of damage to the country

You havent spoilt my day , the fact remains yes Labour doesnt always do the right thing , you need to take a look at the damage Thatcher done to this country , she destroyed it

Mr Eboue    05 Jan 18 12:37 
For the same reason that you or I would get treatment.

EU law means that British people travelling in the European Economic Area get emergency treatment on the same terms as a local.


We have 3 million EU citizens in our small land, and have one million of ours split between many countries, hardly equitable is it.

DOESN'T DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!  NINETY PERCENT NOT RIGHT  HO HO!!!

The even uglier reality for Miliband is that the New Labour era was a golden age for the PFI. The modern PFI is the child of John Major’s Conservative government, but it was adopted and thrived under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. Between 1997 and 2008, 90 per cent of all hospital construction funding was under PFI agreements, which paid for 75 per cent of all hospitals built.

Whoever would have been in power would have carried on with it

over a million illegals  plus the students (unknown amounts both of them)  etc etc

Yes it was the wrong thing to do , have the tories never done anything wrong or have you forgotten about them

The Tory's biggest failure was to stop counting people out, though your ilk seem comfortable still with that situation.

My ilk what do you mean by that ?

I am thinking the march for jobs with michael from liverpool
the attempts to resist thatcher
and the fight we put up for socialist ideas in the party which were swept aside by kinnock and blair
all part of my earlier years in the party

so don't come the snatcher route with me - pure greed of capital which the tory party under blair continued

yes Labour did a great job

I mean people like you anxious. Supporters of the 'no limit on immigration numbers' party.

What are you on about your talking nonsense

In that you don't support Labour, or that Corbyn now wants a cap on Immigration? If he does I haven't read so.

i Do support Corbyn yes , that doesnt mean that i support his immigration policy

People talking about Blair yes he did carry on the tory agenda , not everything he done was bad and do not lecture me about the Labour Party

You can't have Corbyn without having his immigration policy. If you vote for one you vote for the other.

you will not accept the way the party went
I trust you were there then.
Do not try to assume the moral high ground.
We have fked up big style and a long time ago.
Although I like corbyn and hate the campaigns against him some of his supporters are almost bizzare
and some of his shadow cabinet even worse
Most have no clue of 'real life'  and huge chunks of the PLP are light blue
A good politico would have got rid of them but he is not strong enough

Yes i would still vote for him , you have to weigh up the advantages against the disadvatages

Completely pointless.

Actual relevant pertinent facts ignored for the same old political point scoring garbage..... thread after thread after thread.

The forum is fecked for the people who always used and enjoyed it by a few one dimensional blowhards who don't care that it's fecked.
No debate is possible.

Well done. You've achieved nothing except ruining a forum. No-one has been swayed by your non-stop rubbish

i am a member and i dont agree with everything they do , but dont try your moral high ground either , you say you like him but in reality most of your posts are pro trump and farage , you have traveled a long way comrade

Oh yes you are quite right BUT............

shirley you should have carefully crafted policies with the FULL support of the party

the democracy has been bled out of the party by the supporters of the PLP

there is a great deal more to do it getting rid of those waiting in the wings who will
do the Brutus on him.

How does starmer and kinnock get into safe seats for starters
that kinnock is poison

so I don't see such a radical change as many of the same are still there

Moisk the Labour Party like most political parties have different points of view , John Smith was a moderate but he had a lot of respect in the party and outside of it

OK moisok.
Lets see a similar castigation of the Tories. Just for balance.
Or of the Trump family.

It does feel rather as though you use this "card-carrying member of the party" is used as a method of attack from within!
You say you are a Labour member but only ever attack them, as if you wish you weren't and are telling what's wrong from the perspective of some sort of insider.

I have only had a socialist viewpoint/philosophy from approximately 1974
and only been a member since 77. 
And on the far left.
You see I don't really care whether you want to imply I am telling untruths, because I know my record of work for the party.  I have been heavily involved in promoting  left wing candidates in the party and in trade union activity. 


I could not print on here what I think of the USA's system of government and what two capitalist parties offer.
If it wasn't Trump it would be Killary.
No choice for basic wage slaves, although weirdly, I see an up in employment, so a few will be happy with trump - what an awful situation -someone like trump getting the 'working class' vote!!??

As for the tory lot, they represent capital as do the libs and even Labour(who help it along too)

Whether corbyn can do any better I doubt it.  People simply are not ready.
Although I did point out some time ago that nationalisation of utility companies including the railways are not so unpopular as the 'right' thinks

So in my cups, of a balmy evening,  and feeling more sanquine, I  could  see it  as a start.

You mention balance - balanced  with a chip on both shoulders  -  ending up in the middle of the road  - we all know what trotsky said about that.

Ps Although I see clegg got knighted for that ho ho!!

Well, that's cleared that up!

lol

ANyone that disagrees with me is ruining the forum

The forum was great in 2005 when my libtard views were not brought up

Yes, That's it, I.S.
Before the days when reasonable opening posts were responded to with posts like
[i}No more than a political move by the leftie NHS pen pushers, labour and the bbc.[/i]

I also mentioned earlier how much better it was on here before so many 'politically obsessed' people frightened about 70% of the users away.

He's still whining

How would you like me to respond, every is ok and not see the truth. Their is a flu epidemic around the world making every health care struggle ? i doubt you even know about it as you only watch news you want to hear.

And confusing frightened with banned,  he doesnt like a proper debate as his views are flawed.

He claims we are politically obsessed, the difference from 2005 is that the public are much wiser to what is going on.

I also mentioned earlier how much better it was on here before so many 'politically obsessed' people frightened about 70% of the users away.

Those on the left frighten me.

I have just been seen by a consultant, booked in for minor surgery and had a small operation( under local anaesthetic). It was paid for by the NHS, yet all of it was done in a private hospital. A member of staff informed me that 75% of the work done by the hospital was for the NHS and would naturally cost more than if the NHS were to do the work in house. Most of the junior staff were trained by the NHS and left for better pay and working conditions. The consultant was employed by the NHS and did the private work part time as it was more lucrative. These private contracts have grown and grown under this Government with the excuse of speeding up treatment, when in fact it is to enrich their friends in the private sector and reduce the NHS our proudest achievement.

the NHS is an outstanding success, only those who are not in government chose to attack it.

The NHS is nearly destroyed. You can only hope, pal, that you don't need it any time soon.

Used it last week, one of the most brilliant British achievements in history. Only someone who reads one stream of news and has no experience first hand would even say that, when was the last time you were let down by the NHS btw ?

I have 2 relatives that work for the NHS, my mother worked for the NHS, yes they moaned about it all but it is one the biggest companies(employers) in the world.

Also from you own experiences give me an example how your visit left you with feeling it was near destruction ?

My mother was killed by the ineptitude of the NHS.
I'm not going into it again now. My Mrs was a registered nurse. 
Don't try claiming some sort of superiority about it. It has been run down, sold off, reduced and nearly destroyed by 40 years of government cuts.

It used to be (rightly) the cornerstone of British pride. Now it's barely functional.
Ask any GP

Reduced ?

Cuts, im sure they are spending more than ever on the nhs.

No they aren't.
The extra money goes invariably to private companies to run almost every aspect of the NHS independently.
(not in mainsteam news, but can be looked up) have you, for example, heard of Virgincare?

Yes i have heard of the despicable virgincare.

Everywhere you go parts of service are given to private companies, that is how the world works. I dont like it either but to claim the NHS is pile of crap is just stupid.

Hopefully you were paid well after the ineptitude of the NHS after your mothers passing.

All these companies need to make a profit.
Some of the money going in is from the pieces of NHS land which is being sold off.
Look up PFI's.

Government selling NHS land and renting it back!!!!

I (we) applied for nothing and received nothing.
Another time I.S. I will tell you about it.

I never said it was a pile of crap, I said it's been run down to an almost unworkable state and is barely fit for purpose.
It is entirely the fault of governments going back to 1979.

*government cuts

I agree it needs more cash and less PFI(& private companies) but you have to compare it to other services around the world. For the money we pay as taxpayers the NHS is just brilliant.

Cheers studyform, im off to lose on the horse racing.

It was the best in the world. Now it isn't. Like so much else.

Me too. Good Luck.

I wonder if this poor ladies family felt 'let down' by the NHS, or indeed that it was near destruction.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/essex-pensioner-found-dead-waiting-almost-four-hours-ambulance-arrive-163035409.html

The NHS funding has been ringfenced against cuts. People are living longer and longer and for far longer periods of their lives with often big medical needs.
There are always new drugs and treatments being invented that prolong life, some of them very expensive, again pushing up costs.
People I know involved in it say there is still a huge amount of waste.

Yet the leftie hypocrite on here who is compaining about OTHERS having entrenched political views comapred to his righteous objectivity sees none of these huge and overwhelming factors and blames it on the tories with a sideways go at capitalism. Couldn't make it up.

ALL of my dealings with the NHS have been 100 percent - even serious injury.  Can't complain.  I must be the only one.!!!

Although I am not sure if my consultant surgeon was a butcher!!??  He looked like one. ho ho  Nurses were luvverly!!!
slurp  -  oooh matron!!!

SF at his best or is that worst.
He always reminds me Cisse from Cisse and Ada fame when he gets on his high horse.

BTW JC has highlighted some excellent points in his last post.

The tory fanboys on here big time tonight

The tory lie machine still doing its job

Oh, anxious ...

I'm not a natural Tory fan but me too, pretty much been happy everytime I've had anything to do with the NHS. Only concern - when I moved home and lived in a new area but only for a year, found that doctors surgery poor. Where I am now, OK.

That is good, jumper3. You've had mostly fortunate experience of the NHS.
It isn't a Tory/Labour thing (despite what many forum users would have you think) that's caused the concern of millions of others who haven't had the same experience as you.

Without going into personal detail, I promise you, it isn't always so good. Especially for people who live a long way from any hospital. Which since most of them are now closed, means a lot of people. Or no ambulance when it's called for. Or no A+E within 20 or 30 miles.

I think the general concern about the NHS is more than justified, but for people who haven't had to rely on it much, this won't be obvious.

Wow you insult others intelligence but you are paranoid as well as dense. I've only ever had one forum name, for more than a decade.
What I posted was totally true, anyone with any sense can see that iit's true, it's well documented that it's true but even if nobody had ever said it anyone with brains would work it out in 3 minutes of thinking. Those reasons are primary reasons why NHS spending is constantly increasing like a dot com bubble..

You say you aren't having a go at the tories, but twice mention 1979 in your post!!!!
And why that year, why 1979 of all the years since the start of the NHS? .. why that was the year Thatcher came to power, and that woman still gets under the skin of angry lefties. You can dog whistle all you like but do you think people that are smarter than you (not difficult we must admit) aren't going to immediately see who you are actually getting at?

Capitalism has brought many drugs technologies and treatments and without it many people currently alive would be dead. I doubt you'll accept that either though will you.

Perhaps they should all be invented in the "People's Medical Reseach Labs", somewhere outside vladivostok? Capitalism is great. Suck it up.

Focus is always on the supply side of the NHS (media, politics etc).  But very little on the cause of most of the issues, ie, the demand.

And I don't mean immigration (though an increasing population obviously is going to create a greater demand).  I mean, why isn't more focus placed on the promotion of healthy living and a consequent reduction on the reliance of medical attention for ailments that can be avoided by a change in lifestyle.

That's a long term issue, which goes back to school meals, facilities for exercise, control over the food industry, attitudes to alcohol and tobacco, and so on.  As such, there's no political capital in something that can't be solved in a five year political cycle.  Short-termism at it's worst.

It's like giving someone a car, and saying that no matter what they do with it, it will always be serviced and repaired at taxpayers cost, regardless of how you treat it.  As such, there's no incentive to look after it, change the oil, service the engine etc.  People's cavalier attitude to their own health is staggering, and it is those clogging up the system with preventable conditions that put a strain on the NHS to provide a service for all those who genuinely need it.  Ask anyone who works in the health service and they will tell you that alcohol, inactivity, poor diet and smoking are the contributing factors to at least 2/3rds of hospital admissions.

All they do, danno, is to delay the inevitable. Even if a healthier lifestyle worked, then 5 or 10 years later the same people will still need the NHS and the argument will be about an aging population!
If people are found to be healthier and longer lived because of lifestyle changes then the use of hospitals and medical intervention is reduced to fulfil that need. Until the time when those people get a bit older. Then the NHS wouldn't be able to cope because of increasing demand of old age diseases.

There hasn't really been a great deal of research into the real effects of lifestyle changes (except possibly smoking) not least because of the cost of it. Pharmaceutical companies wouldn't want to pay because it would mean less income from the drugs they make.
Marketing organisations are happy to invent (unproven) methods of staying healthy and living forever -like 5 a day fruit and veg (this varies massively from country to country), or you need to drink 3 litres of water a day, because it helps them sell product.
Also and most important of all Genes are the biggest factor in how diseases develop and everybody is different, no amount of lifestyle change will help.

The fact remains that it isn't entirely the demand which is the cause of the current problems. It's the supply.
In all things: Supply will always meet demand or increase its cost to reduce demand. This cannot happen with health. When demand outstrips supply, supply needs to be increased, not cut.

the loons in this country really boil my pish don't go to a nd e,dr,s etc,most people already go as a last,last resort, and  theres 10,s of 1000,s of people who should be getting treatment or advice who don't bother going,if they did the nhs would collapse in days,and of course all you get when you do eventually give in and go is a load of verbals about you should have come in months ago,
bumps,lumps,growths,virus,s etc,etc go and see your gp straight away they tell us but then tell us your wasting our time you wont get seen

Already 8 million extra in the same boat isn't helping

there is this silly rumour going around that the supermarkets are already geared up for 80 million
but I find that hard to believe or does someone know something in government and is not telling???

They whoever they are will not tell you , its a big club and we are not in it

but our friends in Labour were in it once?? and look where that has got us

And quite rightly anxious. Wouldn't be much of a club if they just accepted everybody.
Remember the quote from Karl Marx. Maybe it was Groucho, I always get my comedians mixed up.

indeed you cant get the staff these days anywhere

............... unless you visit the Calais Employment Bureau.

A non-EU patient has racked up a bill of £532,000 after visiting a British hospital


This is the Mail, but they reckon £2 billion a year. Quite shocking if anywhere near true.

No saddo that is simply wayscyst - I am recommending you for re-training camp.  Jeremy will be very very disappointed.

I assume they have gilded the lily at 2 billion, but half of that would pay for a lot of nurses.

don't cause trouble you naughty boy - you know very well everything will be laundered, smoothed, redacted and twisted.
They work like accountants to diminish any figures and will hide as much as they can get away with.
After all, wouldn't you if it was your job at risk

and ultimately DENY DENY DENY

or blame someone else

ho ho

Aye, the truth will not be allowed to tarnish the multicultural fantasy they feed us. We have made ourselves an obvious and easy target for fraud and have only ourselves to blame. They are talking about tackling it now it has become a national embarrassment.

8 million extra is the figure to cling on to

Not that I'm suggesting anything, just putting it out there.....

New Health secretary Anne Milton's husband is in a very high position at VirginCare.
Parliament has changed the Wikipedia page.

Any conclusions should be drawn by yourselves
(unless, as I'm sure some of you will say, there are none to be drawn - given the genuineness of the current incumbents).

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2018/01/anne-miltons-wikipedia-page-edited-from-parliament-to-change-details-of-her-husbands-link-to-virgin-care/

I don't think Virgincare makes the decision to dole out free treatment to anyone who turns up and asks for it though. That is down to a long list of successive governments.

Study

Your implied, exaggerated, scurrilous claims, are appalling.  No new year's honours list for you my fine chap.
You are simply ignorant.
You have no idea how expensive it is to work and live in Landan and one has to grasp(I use the word advisedly) what ever small pittance one can get hold of.  These fine gentlepersons are working very hard for our good health.

I do hope you reconsider and withdrawal you remarks about these fine people.

ps  what has virgins got to do with it or are you one of those bearded people??

toodle pip!!!

Indeed it is, Saddo.
Selling so much of what's left of the service to such companies as Virgin is not good for the NHS either.
2 wrongs don't make a right.

Each failing or potential dodgy manoeuvre doesn't be countered with an opposing view just because.
Nor with a "what about (insert old Labour politician's name here)?"
Nor with, "It'd be worse if Corbyn, blah blah blah..."

The little fact I have mentioned about the New Health Minister is free standing.

ps  there just are too many self seeking bar stewards that the nhs and it surrounding environs, hangers on and placemen etc that it is probably too late to really do anything about it now.
They couldn't even train enough nurses and doctors.

They started importing them to save money on training our own, we ought to start doing the same with politicians.

Yep, too many suppliers take the P as well.

The only parts of the NHS which SHOULD be centralised are not.
The buying centres - Especially for Pharmaceuticals. These SHOULD be National.

Equally the parts which shouldn't be centralised (although regionally, or around trusts) that's Hospitals and centres of care, are!

snowflakes like you saddo simply are the limit - far too soft - I would recommend putting them in camps on the Isle of Man (politicains that is)

Kant spel !!!

No crisis then - I must be watching the wrong news. I should listen more to the know-alls on here.

It is possible the NHS is about to be sponsored by Co Op Undertakers!

4 days ago the nhs was complaining about notenough people taking up the offer of a free flu jab,oap,,kids,infirmed etc, today the nhs is saying its running out of flu jobs they havnt bought,produced enough to cover demand

REARRANGE NUTSHELL IN NHS A

A few years ago the NHS and someone working for our behalf in government over-ordered about 100 million swine flu jabs that weren't needed and probably wouldn't have worked anyway.
If, maybe they thought less about money, managers, surroundings and deals and just did what is needed to keep people healthy....

No need to worry about getting the flu jab this year, it doesn't work anyway according to this.

According to the GP e-magazine, Pulse, January 2018, the flu vaccine has not worked again this year, particularly with the over 75's, who conventional doctors believe to be the most 'at-risk' group. As a result, doctors have been advised by NHS England to order a separate vaccine for them next year.

                "A letter from NHS England’s Public Health Commissioning Team instructed practices order a separate flu vaccine for patients who are over 75 years of age, after PHE announced in September that last year’s vaccine was not ‘significantly effective’ in older patients."

http://safe-medicine.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/the-flu-vaccine-it-just-does-not-work.html

If you catch the flu go to bed with a bottle of whiskey is my remedy.

The whiskey won't make the flu any better, but it'll make being ill more of a pleasure.