piers morgan

I think Ian shouldn't jump in like that making accusations without knowing the full facts.  In times like this we need to be very careful what we say about this situation.  Lashing out can only inflame things.  Very irresponsible of you Ian.
Meanwhile there has been a muslim bomber flying in from Libya who has blown 70 people to pieces in Manchester.
They are the facts. Why try to cover it up?  Surely we are interested in the truth.

Amir Khan just said - is it muslim?  unbelievable.

I don't agree with you on this issue, Facts.
Morgan is not my cup of tea but he seems to me to be correct in stating that the Muslim community need to reject extremists among them. There may be a debate about the place of Islam in Christian countries versus the place of Christianity in Muslim countries. Why not?  Morgan asked of the Imam who said he was "not surprised" that the suicide bomber killed a score of people, "what did you do about it?" And that is what many are wondering..

'What did you do about it?'

The first time I have hears ANY challenge to the prevailing narrative of 'religion of peace....toleration....forgiveness.....solidarity.....business as normal'

One person asks 'what did you do about it?' to a Muslim religious leader putting himself up for interview, and it's the interviewer that's being called out?!

There is only one thing you need to know about these lunatics , they are start staring bonkers and there are millions of them.
That's why .

Roger - The religious leader wasn't there in the studio. He met the bomber and, saw hate and is quoted as saying he wasn't surprised that the guy went on to commit the atrocity. Morgan was calling him out. But no quotes yet from other religious leaders who met the bomber in more radical South Nanchester mosques.

Manchester, sorry.

unless you brutally repress this religion it's the norm, look around the world ,look around.

Like it or not we are at war with Islam and in such a situation Islamists need to be identified as 'good' and 'bad'. Now I know a lot of people will accuse me of racism etc etc however my suggestion is that everyone of them should be made to swear an oath of allegiance to this country and any of them whom the security forces believe are a risk should be rounded up and in the first instance interned in camps on remote islands.

Posy, thats the only way forward with these pieces of trash, you cannot negotiate, i totally agree, at the same time, we must try Blair for war crimes

We aren't at War with Islam it's I.S.I.S and I.S.I.L  You are putting billions of people Worldwide into the wrong category.

Blair tried to help these people, he was naïve ok but he thought they were normal human beings.
Now Britain gave sanctuary to this bombers family, they had to leave Lybia when Gadaffi was in power,
Now Britain then helps the Lybian people to get rid of Gadaffi, how are we repaid?
Now you can`t blame Blair, or Cameron, or the French or American president when you are dealing with lunatics like that.

Blair was responding to the nature of these regimes, and we now see the nature not just of the leaders but many of the people also

So if Gadaffi had been left in power this wouldn't have happened as the terrorists parents
would never have arrived on these shores.

That is what these regimes, by their very nature are, evil and brutal.
Now you can take different approaches, do you ignore them, as long as they ignore you?
Or under certain circumstances do you get drawn into their madness, such as Syria or elsewhere?
That is the dilemma, but first and foremost what you don't do is let it spread to Britain or Europe or any other reasonably civilised country.
Its a bit late for that of course, and anyone who tries to do so will be treated like a racist and shouted down by people like facts

Breeding tell me how you can identify an Islamist terrorist from an ordinary bloke with a bushy black beard wearing Pakistani garb . They ALL need to be considered a risk until categorised as 'good' muslims .

The other thing is running a country in the Middle East is not as simple as introducing democracy and
they will become like us, they have great religious divisions that often end up causing friction and war
ruling with a strong hand is often thought to be the only solution.

we don't have to take the risk, Trump decided early in his presidency that they didn't have to take the risk, guess what happened?

now of course we have the risk from within, its too late?
no its not too late there is still time...but only if we now stop all muslims coming to Britain and Europe.

It is the irony that he came from a family that fled Gadaffi!! We gave them safety.  I believe the family already went back to Libya?
All this obfuscation from starkstaring mad who said it was a gas explosion also saying he hoped it wasn't a terrorist attack. Also grassing up g2d.  A thorough going apologist who seeks to confuse the issue.

So treat all Milwall fans as hooligans because half a dozen smash a pub up.

Look I am not concerned with millwall fans.

Believe it or not there's a difference between half a dozen drunk white working class thugs wrecking a pub and someone blowing up and injuring/killing 70  people.

Tarring everyone with the same brush.

An imam was interviewed in manchester. He sounded a really genuine bloke. Went on talking about how they have tried to work hard to be part of Manchester in his mosque.  The interviewer then went on to ask 'are you not concerned at what is going on in SOME other mosques in the country and the safety of people.  The imam came right back and said he was. Women and children not being able to walk about safely and being spat on etc - the guy wasn't concerned about the general population - only muslim women and children.
In so many interviews imams etc are more concerned about the reputation of islam and protecting it.  They don't want it investigated as it will open a whole can of worms.  Islam needs very careful examination.

Breedingmad you are going to have to understand, not everyone can be trusted to live in England.

If you allow vast numbers of people into a country the people don't change, the country changes.
What does the country change to? look around the world, look around.

when this debate comes up apologists like stark mad seek to confuse the issue - this is his role along with several others

they hate the idea of examining whereabouts it is coming from in this country

it does not fit his or their agenda

there are a few of us who want to ask questions but he seeks to deflect at every opportunity

one wonders what his connections are - one he is pro eu so he will follow the merkel/german/french line

we all know how that has worked out

just suck up the pro islamic propaganda

So what exactly is your agenda?, what can you and your ilk do to prevent and stop terrorism
in the present? nbI didn't call you a derogatory name as it does nothing to advance debate!

are you not bothering to read what anyone else says?

the first thing we do is stop all muslims from coming to live in Britain and Europe and America.

OOOOOH!!!  we are sensitive this morning. I mean - who would start of with such a name such as breedingmad -

How did that gas explosion and non terror attack go then mad?

now in Algeria in the eighties they had their own problems with religious extremists.
they were killing and beheading people back then also and the Algerian people became so sickened and terrified that they determined it must not be allowed to happen again
They put the army and government agents into every mosque in the country

What you are actually advocating is to change British law so that now you are guilty until proven innocent.

no, not really.

No he is not - you really are the limit barking mad

Then again we are at war. I dearly hope we are not looking at the suspension of citizens' rights but I fear we may have to change some of them to challenge this assault on the UK.

I am advocating not allowing any muslims into Britain, Europe and America.
That will include nice and good people.

It is also going to depend on the 6 percent of muslims who support violence. More importantly the 20 percent of young muslims who support the same.

I have an idea to stop acts like these happening anyone going to Libya Syria e.t.c should
have their baggage checked before leaving and a secretly placed listening device placed
in it.If on return the device is missing they obviously could be involved in I.S.I.L
or other organizations if the device is still in then remove it and listen that way
you have protected the citizens of this Country ..I'm sure it's a lot cheaper than expelling
the entire Muslim population of the U.K...

Breedingmad you mention Millwall fans, well you may remember back in the 80s when Juventus fans were killed before a final with Liverpool after that English teams were thrown out of Europe so I think that answers your question.

Yes of course there are good muslims the overwhelming majority are, however somewhere within them disagrees with western society values and they are easily radicalised. I don't see many of them being appalled at what has happened so why is that?

It is hard to take but they are different to us and what gets me about apologists like you Breedingmad is that you don't take on board what they do to each other in their own country, when they do take over you Liberals will be the first sacrificed as they don't share your view.

when they do take over Think you are exaggerating here just because a few nutters say they want to take control of the
World through Islamic State you think it will happen..?

its difficult to create a peaceful democratic and free country breedingmad, it`s not easy.

it`s not the norm, people might think so because we have been lucky for 300 years, its not .

towns and cities in the uk are already heavily influenced by the wish of islam

you need to get out more mad

I think I have been to more U.K. towns and cities than you so don't try that one also
lived in Holland and France have seen terrorism first hand lived in Leeds past 20 years.

haha  you are hilarious

you sure have the moral high ground

I haven't left London many years.

We are all in our trenches down here hiding.

ps I have lived close up to Islam sir. And not in this country

so don't try that one on me ho ho

Another solid argument from you can't argue with that show me a picture of your trench..

We have very different outlooks. Breedingmad sees all religion as misguided at best, I much prefer Christianity by any measure.

Mainstream Islam does not seem comfortable with a multi-faith society. So we need to be talking about that imo. It's surely not a matter of managing a few criminally minded lunatics.

The supporters of daesh are not nutters. You simply do not understand the issue.  There are many in this country who not only support the introduction of sharia law but also of the caliphate.
Until you understand this you understand very little.  By dismissing them as 'nutters' you dismiss reasonable investigation and debate.
They are completely insane and therefore have no valid motive as far as you are concerned.

Even May would like to see the incorporation of sharia into english law.
So the slow creep of islamification rolls on.

Religion is shaped to mean what the user wants it to mean.
Islamic terrorists tend to be under 40 and rebellious and alienated in some respect.
They take Islam in a literal context, and perhaps even re interpret parts to fit an agenda.

This guy seemingly had conflicting views of the same material to what his father had, being that his father ran from Gaddafi and his son watched him hunted down by the western proxy.
The son wasn't particularly educated and did low paid menial work, perhaps experienced racism in his life and had an axe to grind about the whole western issue and looked towards rebellion.

The warping of narrative was just the same for Christendom, the pope regularly did very unchristian like things in the Middle Ages in sanctioning war, and those who followed him would blind and castrate opponents or slaughter innocents.

'The west' has become less religious which has less of an influence on the collective mindset, while Islam is still 700 years behind. We are two sets of people living in two different ages, but it's not for me to decide whether they are suited.

What I do know is there is nothing more certain than change itself. I see these gatherings after atrocities and the parroting of sentiment and often wonder how long people will keep doing it, it's almost as though the size of the crowd is becoming the automatic response to cover the inner feeling.
At some point the tide will turn, you keep pulling the head off a scab and it goes bad.

That other thread completely disappeared whilst I was replying..said invalid thread..

Breedingmad    24 May 17 08:48 
So treat all Milwall fans as hooligans because half a dozen smash a pub up.




All football fans are treated as potential trouble. Herded, segregated, kept in after a match and then herded again onto transport. It was the only way to curtail hooliganism and seems to work, in the main.

poor dustbin thinks that change necessarily means progress , it doesn't .
And he seems to think that all religions are equal, and are capable of leading to a free and good society
They're not.

Religion was written by man, at a point when they were under the kosh, each 'tribe' wrote their own version, but the ones that followed others had to create a divide since they came after and the previous version had already been done.

There are parts of Islam that are very warlike, because they were written while at war.
I'm not saying change is for good or bad, I'm saying it's inevitable.

Is the west less religious than it was 200, 300 years ago?
Probably not, it might be more religious than was .

What is clear to me is that when politicians come and tell the nation what they should be thinking, via some sort of emotional speech it become blasé.
Like Churchill or pretty much any leader wanting to get a response from the people, they didn't keep parroting the same rhetoric as it becomes useless.

nothing changes, you have a present, I don't want a future I want a present this seems to me of greater value
When you have a present you forget to even think of the future
That's why there is no such thing as change.

The indigenous are becoming less religious, the minorities are bolstered by immigration who are more religious.

The problem is not the politicians , Orwell thought that the people would have to guard against the state, now it is the state that has to guard against the people, but in the west
That is s fundamental change in thinking I will agree that has changed

unitedbiscuits never ever thought I would say this but you deserve post of the day. Well said sir.

You see for all their faults most of us hold the same common values as most of the politicians
and di the people hold the same common values, I don't know
I think that has changed, and that is why it's the people we have to fear, not so much the state

It's sunny outside I can't be arsed having an argument on the semantics of change ffs.
Other than to say however you look at it change is constant.

Before I go outside, I was essentially saying that people won't keep swallowing what the politicians tell em as it becomes valueless.
So to that end the state is fighting a rear guard action as they don't come up with anything new and the problem doesn't get solved, so to that extent I'm agreeing

Water and oil don't mix. The muslims would be better off going back to their homelands and practising their faith there.

They seem to have no problem killing innocents in their adopted countries. They have no intention in being part of a larger community, unless we all convert to Islam that it.

So do us all a favour, leave Europe and don't return. You do not have the same values as the rest of us. The politicians can keep trying to force the oil to mix with the water but it aint gonna happen.

Do you know it is too much trouble to guard against their influence ,
I like comfort , I have to admit.

I like people who I understand, no, no I'm not telling lies.

It is all about pouring cold water on anger. Anger will get change but the politicoes are on the back foot.  They see pleasing the 3 million as important as any other part of this issue.  You have to remember politicians have a very comfortable life and these are awkward questions being asked and they will not like it.
It is all about blowing smoke over it all.  NOTHING WILL BE DONE.


On sky -  Watch the muslim apologist trying to turn this away from anything to do with islam and trying to make it JUST  a criminal issue.  They want anything that turns it away from their cult.  They don't want its reputation tarnished.

"Mainstream Islam does not seem comfortable with a multi-faith society. So we need to be talking about that imo. It's surely not a matter of managing a few criminally minded lunatics."

Spot on.  I've heard a lot about tolerance, and it's best to try and be tolerant.  But, it's hard to be tolerant towards a religion that is highly intolerant.  You try, but fairness will always trump tolerance in the end, as fairness is more important to people than tolerance.

Douglas Murray on BBC 2 now. He'll hopefully tell it as it is

at least we know it has nothing to do with islam

'The family is super religious. They have about 10 kids and you never see any of the girls,' one neighbour, who did not want to be named, said. 'I only ever saw the mother once or twice in 10 years. She always stayed in the house and whenever I saw her she was wearing a veil.'

1 Abolish the Muslim Council
2 Prohibit the full face veil and burqa
3 Ban the men wearing their traditional garb except for weddings,feast days and the like
3 Close the mosques
4 Deport those who cannot read ,write and speak English
5 Close muslim only schools
6 Require an oath of allegiance to GB from all who live here
7 Intern everyone who is remotely thought of as being a danger to our society

Only by taking drastic action will this country be able to reverse the Islamification of parts of the country like Bradford, Dewsbury,Rotherham,Burnley etc etc

posy - stop talking sense!

Posy,  You always have been far too easy going and an appeaser!!!!!!

ps

TOOOOOOO LATE

There's millions of Muslims peacefully obeying their religion in this country who are a huge source of good to their communities. If we were to stop their right to live their life the way they currently are, this would change society for the worse, and we would become a hateful cruel society, that I wouldnt want to be a part of.

And do you really think a terrorist planning to commit an atrocity would be caught out cos he couldnt pretend to swear allegiance?

Also, there is only one number 3 when you count to 7

Stable door, horse bolted.