Culture Secretary Jeremy Wright said: "The government has listened and will now implement the reduction in April 2019."

I wonder if the Govt has listened to the majority of the people who voted for Brexit, and implement it by leaving ?

for some reason I always thought you were a northerner, studyform, turns out you're from 'Ackney

to be fair its likely problem gamblers have tried the lot.

these fobt have created a new problem and maybe their damage
is already done. hitting folk who had previously not become problem
gamblers .

doubless there will be folk who will still encounter problems.


good luck to the bookies when old jack writes out 250 x 20p bets on the first
race at brighton, to replace his scattergun roulette technique.

I couldn't disagree more with most of that, bongo.

In the first place, these "surveys" are basically flawed, not least because:
A. Bookies (big firms) play down the amounts, levels and times people spend on the FOBTs
B. Gamblers aren't honest with themselves or their families, let alone survey questions - there is a lot of denial.

Secondly, the numbers of people playing the machines are far greater than those who use spread betting or casinos, particularly those who can't really afford to gamble at the levels they do.

I am absolutely certain that if you asked people who play these things, even on a regular basis (and it IS something I've done) if they'd like to see the machines banned, they would nearly all say YES!
The machines aren't wanted or needed by anyone except bookies, who don't appreciate that they are in large part "substitution" for money which would otherwise come over the counter, and the suppliers of the machines themselves, and to a lesser extent the government who don't realise that much of the money which comes in via duty on the machines will still come in as duty from alternative, slower, less painful, forms of gambling.

Betting shops already serve the gambler's desire to gamble. When there used to be only 12 races a day, betting shops won money, the tax office earned money, people lost money and there were people who got into lots of trouble and were "problem gamblers", just as there were before 1961 and from time immemorial.

Therein lies the problem about FOBTs:
*They are fast.
*They deal in high stakes - usually much higher than people would usually play
*They are uncheckable - again I could go into bigger detail. There are claims and independent verification organisations (based in the Netherlands) but fundamentally, everyone STILL has to take that as true.
*There is a repeat bet button, and in some cases a 'double bet' button, neither of which exists in real roulette. In the real game you have to start from scratch each spin.
*The marketing campaigns the big firms run encourage FOBT play. They want people on them and it's cynical.

FOBTs are more damaging, more quickly, than any other form of readily available gambling.
I watched a bloke once playing £100 a spin, he'd put about £500 in and started winning. He got it up to £9,400. He wouldn't stop. He wanted to get to £10,000 (The limit, by the way, which is inexplicable, why would a firm whose maximum payout is £1 million limit machine winnings to £10,000? They don't limit losses), anyway within an hour he was at zero. and getting the feeling, as players do, that he would get it back because these things "even out", he lost another £2000 from a credit card he'd just got - from a bank's cashpoint.

If you're unsure, just go into ANY betting shop, try a few different ones, and watch people play these machines.
Watch the almost maniacal delight as they are in front.
Watch them talk to themselves and the machines - saying "thank you" when they win for example.
Watch their faces
Watch them press the button in different ways or do things like turning round or trying "different" things, none of which do anything.

Speak - unofficially - to members of betting shop staff. ALL of them will back up what I'm saying

The veracity of surveys by organisations which are funded by the bookmakers (via the GC) should be considered.
The dozens of ridiculous statements by the ABB (Association of British Bookmakers) should be closely examined.
They made some incredibly doubtful claims, like the size of the average play being (if memory serves) about £2 and people spending just a few minutes on average, playing the machines. A downright lie. If this was the case, why would they be bothered with the reduction with maximum stake?

People generally play them until they run out of money, or are a substantial amount in front and need to be somewhere else. Then they bring it back next day anyway.

I am in NO doubt whatsoever, having been very much involved with these things and having worked with, and spoken to, many others who have done the same, that they are the most dangerous and addictive form of gambling available.
I have been addicted to FOBTs. I have been in loads of trouble because of them in my time, and that isn't even just roulette. Even now, I still feel the occasional urge.

It isn't like fruit machines.
Many years ago, I'd play these at the local Snooker hall for £150 jackpot and lose my wages. but it took many hours. This was still bad and couldn't harm as many people as FOBTs do, as only 2 machines were allowed and they had to be in members only club - including casinos. I'd play them in pubs. Most anti-social of me!

But now, I don't have the remotest desire to play on them.
FOBT's are not the same as slot machines.

People who don't play them don't get it. What members of the public in general think is of no consequence if they don't know about the subject and have no experience of it.

It is very easy to say, "no-one makes people play them, it's a matter of choice" for those who've never even seen an FOBT, but that simply isn't right.

Although I've written loads, there is stuff left out, but I couldn't be more certain than I am.

FOBTs are VERY BAD and should be banned.

Personally, I would ban these machines plus those in pubs and whilst I'm at it, the national lottery and euromillions, but my point is, when are people going to start taking responsibility for their own actions?

Utility companies bribe people by getting them to put X amount of money per month into their savings accounts just to make sure people are in credit. Most people do because they are either lazy or are not competent enough to look after their own finances, when what they should be doing is leaving the money in their own accounts and wait for the paper bill. The same goes with council tax. People are lazy and want somebody else to look after them.

Now a man smokes cigarettes, a few years later, he contacts cancer. Who's fault is that? The man with cancer, knowing full well what could happen to him or the tobacco company who have a product to sell?

Now a man drinks alcohol, a few years later, he contacts cirrhosis. Who's fault is that? The man with cirrhosis, knowing full well what could happen to him or the breweries who have a product to sell?

It's the same choice with these fobts, a man has a choice wether to play them or not. Win or lose, that's the risk, he knows that before he plays them, he also knows that he's more likely to lose. What drives him to use these machines is the same thing that drives people to bet on horses or blackjack and I've seen people losing their pay packets and more playing horses and cards, and that is Greed.

The sooner people start taking responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming other people or looking for a scapegoat, the better.

it's like scummy bookmakers who deliberately target poor areas to open up their shops in, knowing full well poor people generally make poorer decisions and are more desperate to win money, what about the responsibility of the bookie not to be morally bankrupt by tempting those less well off?

The difference for me, twonky, is the speed and amount of addictive behaviour on the FOBTs.

To use your examples.
It's like tobacco companies even longer, stronger cigarettes, and marketing and putting incentives in all supermarkets and sweetshops saying that people should be smoking 60 a day.
Or The utility companies telling you to leave all the lights on and the taps running to maximise income.

Some people need help, assistance and guidance. This doesn't mean anyone is actually telling them what to do.
I disagree with you about choice though.
The pull and addiction of FOBTs is stronger than any for the other forms of betting you mention.
Of course there is still the loss of pay packets and trouble people get themselves into through all forms of gambling, it's just these things do it much more, much more quickly, and quite importantly the big betting firms encourage new players into hard gambling with ruthless and unscrupulous methods.

One more quick story.
I managed to get the roulette content removed from my FOBTs, after loads of grief and loads of publicity, and 2 young blokes came into the shop, trying to play roulette.
I explained that it had been removed because of the problems I've seen it caused.
So they asked, "How do you put a bet on dogs then?" As they could see the papers n the walls and the lived dogs on screen.
I explained about 'Win' 'Each-way' and 'forecasts' and how to read the form. Then they put a few bets on - small bets, 50p and £1 bets and they had a lovely time, enjoying the races and laying out far less than they would have on the machines.
Unfortunately they were a bit unlucky and couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo.  But it was still a cheap(ish) hour of entertainment and far more fun than pressing a button on games of (apparent) chance.

I just googled it too.
Quite proud of my recollection of the tale. Except I remembered it as £988 11/9d (a pound out).

What wasn't mentioned in the wiki thing I read about it was that there was quite a bit of menace involved.
There were quite a few in the gang, partly blocking the tote windows and some asking people what they were going to bet on, and if they said the numbers that were likely to win, they were told "no you're fckin' not mate, you're going to back...." (the losing numbers).

Until then bookies paid out on tote forecasts. Which is why the limits were brought in, then slightly later, the chart was developed and forecasts were based on SPs. Much later and it's all CSF (Computer straight forecast). No-one knows the formula used for that, or how it's calculated.

I would think that is a scene repeated in every shop in the country, twizzle.
And that's what people don't realise, or worse, believe.

A mate of mine was working in a shop where a bloke lost about £4,000 in a couple of hours. Apparently the bloke cashed out for £5, popped out of the shop and to nearby junk shop and bought a claw hammer. Which he used to smash the machine up.
No-one from head office was particularly bothered, they said it would cost them a few hundred to fix, and that was fine as they had £4000 to play with.

a mate of mine won 250 grand on deal or no deal on ladbokes website.
went from to 50p lucky 15 punter to a £10 lucky 15 punter.
went from having £10 on to have £500 on singles.
done it all back within two years

I popped into William Hills one morning about 11 am to collect a Rugby Bet and there was a Postman from the Royal Mail in full uniform playing a Roulette Machine with a full bag of Mail alongside him !! Incredible

RLKP well at least he's got a job - better than walking the streets!

A friend whose business partner is the father of a former Arsenal number 9 in the late 80's and 90's; number 9 was a prolific gambler so much so he was repeatedly asking for sub from club and borrowing from teammates; number 9 would even ask my friend to put bets on for him on tick until pay day; number 9 was making about £3k per week then (I believe); he blew that plus his share of the transfer fees on gambling, drugs and alcohol. And that was before fobt were on the scene otherwise a declared bankrupt for sure.

Now a pundit at Sky.

Said No9 once called (early days of mobile phones) a bookie acquaintance of mine while he was playing golf - apparently annoying the bloke who was putting.
He asked, "What's the next race?"
reply, "3.59 Monmore"
"What's the favourite?"
"Trap 5, 2/1"
"I'll have £300 on it"

It lost. Not that the result mattered, he had no interest on the race at all, couldn't see or hear it, and what he did transcends mere betting.

was the putt landed ?

Number 9 before his football took off used to help out shifting coal bags to customers; number 9 was so bored post training session each weekday (latest 11am) any activity would do just to fill the time. And paralytic on a fri prior to sat game was frowned upon by manager nevertheless, still managed to wrap his Bimmer in a tree once, if memory served.

Another one was a former England and West Ham player with the intials AD; used to pop into local bookie regularly before setting off to Brentford; friendly and unassuming chap.

Steve Claridge (parliamentary priv) used to hold his face cm's from screen screaming !

what a nob

I think then avid followers of gambling from the Britain Isles could form their own football team and still be more successful than their respective national team eg Arsenal number 9, Arsenal number 6, West Ham number 6, QPR number 10, Man Utd number 7, etc.

lets face it, everyone on here is a gambling addict, whether you win on gambling or not. so lets not get all preachy about fotb addicts.

he was indeed

great britain is an island, scotland, england and wales