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Chit Chat
BREXIT racism ? violent attacks up, in aeroplane rage figures.
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there is also the small matter of germany finding £350 million + a week
to fund eastern europeans as you say, its all going to get very interesting |
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How you deal with the offence is entirely up to you (within bounds of course) but that doesn't alter the fact that it's a crime. Just because you like to present yourself as thick-skinned it doesn't alter the fact that it would be against the law and thus a crime. Hence, freedom of expression works only up to a very limited point. Or horsesh!t as my dear old nanna would call it.
There's been enough evidence in recent years from idiots abusing a paediatrician to schoolkids telling classmates to go back to wherever that clearly show that these laws are necessary. If only everyone was "British" and could shrug their shoulders and laugh it off eh? |
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So the reason for the spike is that people have suddenly cottoned on that being called p@ki etc or told to f*ck off back home is now a crime. Before June, they all just thought it was perfectly normal and wished their abuser good day did they?
And of course there's a difference between someone making a point or asking a question and abuse. I'd trust that the law, and the police will know the difference. These numbers are coming from the police. There may be more complaints that were not considered criminal or hate crimes or whatever. Pretty obviously. But if you're trying to imply your freedom to express something in a mild-mannered and unabusive way is being trampled on by the loony lefties calling everything they disagree with racist abuse, well firstly I'd laugh at you and ask what happened to your British resilience and then I'd say it's not a binary issue. |
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you can`t have it both ways p&p if calling someone names, p@ki etc, or being told to go back home warrants a police investigation then every time some leftist calls someone he disagrees with racist that should in itself be considered grounds for prosecution on the same principle of hurt feelings.
it`s a very hurtful thing to level at someone, in his own country. |
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you see someone may say go bak home, and not be racist? yes that is possible but will the witchfinders understand that, probably not.
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there could be a scenario whereby someone looks around at what is happening in Europe, and their own country..and not be happy.
now it is not really good enough to say you must be happy. |
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ok, ignoring the obvious reasons...if you were being unfair in calling someone a racist then, yes, it's potentially very wrong. You couldn't just go on FB and accuse your boss of making a racist remark because you didn't like him.
But, if someone is being racist, if someone is using derogatory terms then I don't at all see why it's remotely in the same ball park. I'm not sure if you're trying to say it's justified in calling someone a p@ki because you know they come from Pakistan, as it would be ok to call someone a racist if you just witnessed them unleash a torrent of racist abuse. |
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i didn`t say it was nice or even justified to call someone by that term. It would never under any circumstances occur to me to do so.
i would be ashamed to do so. at the same time it is too easy, and very damaging and hurtful to throw about the term racist, and this is also wrong...in fact moreso. |
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some terms are simply taboo because of the historical context behind them
as with the gazza joke, and its harsh for those not aware of the upset it causes. p@ki would probably be an acceptable term had it not become abusive down the years calling somebody a racist is probably a civil case, not criminal |
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it is not against the law to be racist.
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If you were to say "Poles and Romanians are benefit scroungers" then that's racist. If you were to say Arabs are child-molesting terrorists, then that's racist. It's as racist as Jim Davidon's chalkie character, as racist as presuming all black men are well endowed. As for it being ok to tell someone to go back home, well really. Firstly, what you're actually saying is abandon your job, your home, your family, friends and the life you've built and go away from your current life and if you want to know why, well I'm not exactly sure but I'm sure it's ok to behave like this in Britain in 2016.
To flip it on it's head, if I was to say all white people in Bury are racist is also similarly discriminatory. If I was to say all people who voted Leave are racist then the same. Racism is about tarring people with the same brush and not judging them by their own personal beliefs and actions isn't it. I'm sure some Romanians are benefit scroungers etc etc but obviously and I'm sure some white people in Bury are racist but that doesn't mean you can say the above. I don't mind reasonable arguments. God knows I could make some reasoned arguments against staying in the EU but this place is clearly not the right forum for reasoned debate. But if you seriously think it's ok - in any circumstances - to tell someone to f*ck off back home then you're beyond help. |
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lfc - it's against the law to act in a racist way.
It's not against the law to think pulling Farage limb from limb would be perfectly acceptable, though it obviously is to attempt to do it or to incite others to do so. |
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i never said it was ok to say that to an individual, if you read carefully what i said.
however these things have to be taken on balance. If i was to express the opinion that i believe that Europe would be better if there were no muslims in Europe..would that be racist? imo no it is not racist. by saying that you are not saying that there are no beautiful and kind and good muslims, that would be ridiculous and no one would believe that. however that does mean that someone can not also hold the view that it would be best for a country in Europe, not to have immigration muslim or otherwise and it would also not be racist to say particularily immigration that is of a different culture or religion or beliefs etc |
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If the person is an illegal immigrant I would be perfectly happy to say they should leave, no point in having laws otherwise.
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you see someone may say "i don`t want any muslims to be allowed to immigrate to Europe" and straight away the leftists will be outraged and shout racist...
but is it racist, or just an observation? |
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So the reason for the spike is that people have suddenly cottoned on that being called p@ki etc or told to f*ck off back home is now a crime. Before June, they all just thought it was perfectly normal and wished their abuser good day did they?
No There are several reasons I can think of: 1. Using some fkd logic, boneheads think that Brexit has legitimised their poisonous racism leading to a rise in what I would term 'true' hate crimes / attacks. It would appear this is the category you are attributing all the reported increase into. 2. 'Remainder' bodies, with a vested interest in decrying all things Brexit, have set up groups encouraging the reporting of hate crimes, with hate crimes being vaguely defined. Clearly, being called 'P@ki' or told to 'fk off back home' would genrally (though context is everything) be reported, quite correctly. However, feeling vaguely uneasy about someone questioning why you are sending money back home instead of spending it in the community that is supporting you is a legitimate question, not a hate crime. 3. Some people like to be victims and now, with the Police having to record the reporting of perception of a hate crime as a legitimate hate crime, are more than prepared to do so. |
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rodge - we go round the houses and you end up agreeing with me. You still try to throw in some justification as the lefty liberals are putting people up to it apparently but hey it's a start.
As for the reports, in a direct quote from Hogan-Howe: “The absolute numbers are low, but we think it is massively under-reported [crime]. Sadly, people don’t tell us about the harassment and the abuse that we know will go on out there.” I know from my wife and from her friends and colleagues, then there have been so many incidents involving them in the aftermath of the vote (more snide comments of "p!ss off back home" type, though one lad got into a pretty tricky situation) and none of those were ever reported so will not have been counted, so god knows how many other incidents of a similar nature have not been reported too. |
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I'm attempting a nuanced and reasoned rationale as to why 'hate crimes' have increased.
Emboldenment of genuine, objectionable racists? Certainly - who should feel the full effect of the law Encouragement of the reporting of such 'crimes' by Remainder groups with an agenda - Certainly Pretend victims wanting sympathy instead of being told to grow a pair - That too. |
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PorcupineorPineapple 29 Sep 16 15:44
Saddo, but that's not racist as you know the specifics of the person. It might be unkind and hurtful to someone who's seen their home blown up and family slaughtered and are looking for a safe refuge. They would be refugees and not illegal immigrants, would they not? Calm down and stop berating anyone who thinks differently to you or perhaps lives in a different situation to your own, I will not return your abuse. |
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Add wolf whistling to the list of these horrendous crimes. Or staring too hard at the wrong person. Do you see how the idiots in charge divert attention away from a few very serious race offences, where a few people have actually been physically harmed or even killed.
I wonder if they would also draw attention to the many more racist attacks by foreigners on the population? And I mean physical ones, not incidents like shouting racist slurs at honkeys. |
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how would you know if somebody was a muslim
mr khan are you a muslim mr khan says no let him in seems a silly view to hold regardless of it being racist or otherwise |
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Now, you'd have thought the most senior police officer in the country confirming what everyone knows - that racial hate crimes have risen since the referendum - would make the news in some way. Don't worry, I've checked for you. I've looked on the websites of the Telegraph, the Mail and the Express and guess what...not a sausage. Breitbart - bless their racist cotton socks - managed to have an article on their site yesterday still claiming there were no spikes at all. As an aside, the express does have an article today (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/715612/refugees-hate-crime-africa-race-migrants-immigrants-cambridge-stickers-romsey-recreation) about stickers in Cambridge telling immigrants to go back to Africa. Thanks for reading, now you can all go back and dig another little hole in the sand just big enough for your heads. You area completely clueless as to the difference in the reporting of a crime and someone being convicted of a crime. You have provided absolutely no evidence of an increase in race hate crimes you have provided evidence of an increase in the reports of hate crime. Nigel Farage got reported for hate crime for releasing a poster of a picture to the public. All that means is was someone reported it and it was given a crime reference number. He hasn't been arrested, charged, prosecuted or convicted and neither will he be because quite clearly what he did wasn't a crime. How many other 'incidents' will get the same treatment and are simply reports which will go no where because they are not crimes. Until you get an increase in convictions you cannot say there has been an increase in hate crimes. Not to mention the face that a hate crime is a broad category of offences which doesn't just include hate crime. |
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are*
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*race
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Cheers shrewdie, make sure you take a big straw so you can breathe with your head down there.
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Think for yourself for once rather than reading a headline and concluding what the writer wants you to think.
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Read my posts and you'll see my own experience of this as well as the reported figures and direct quotes from the most senior cop in the country.
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PP The copy & paste merchant
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Just to confirm then, leaving a side your entirely anecdotal evidence, the quotes you have provided relate merely to an increase in the reporting of alleged hate incidents and not an increase in crimes?
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Yes, and to confirm you think those reports are all made up and not real.
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No.I would imagine at least a part of the increase is down to peoples idea of what actually is a racist criminal offence changing during Brexit. We had politicians calling anyone who mentioned immigration as racist. We had Nigel Farage being reported to the police accompanied by 40,000 signatures for releasing a poster and we know he hasn't even been arrested or charged. (He would be included in your statistics but must be about 10000/1 to be convicted of committing a crime)
Until statistics are released about whether there has been an increase convictions it is nonsense to say there has been an increase in a particular offence. There have been more reports of sex crimes since the Jimmy Saville revelations that doesn't necessarily mean sex crime is up it simply means more reports have been made and there could be a number of factors at play. Maybe you should wait until there are some hard meaningful facts that there has been an increase in racial crime before jumping to a conclusion based on a particular set of statistics and choosing the interpretation which suits your agenda. Or let's just do away with the judicial system and presume that a crime has been committed whenever someone makes a report to the police. |
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It has been proven that nearly ALL these are REPORTED/CLAIMS even to the extent of being LOOKED AT by the victim. This is a victim's charter whereby elements in the press and people in council/government officialdom can further grind their axe.
I would like to see headlines that look at the 1000s of actual physical/violent crimes/ assaults/robberies etc etc committed by foreigners in this country against our own people. But somehow these hate crimes seem not to make it in the headlines. THEY are not portrayed as MASSIVE jump in number of crimes by foreigners etc etc etc But they are all out of proportion to their actual numbers/population. But look at Burka clad foreigner and ask them to explain the hatred and violence by muslim groups in wars and sexual aggression/rape etc in our own country JUST gets you banged up. You all know it is all one way with a particular agenda and they are just laughing in your face. So much of this has been caused by the politicians allowing open borders and the massive influx of foreign criminal gangs. Then there are others who live here, who follow a cult with completely different attitudes to women. etc etc With the millions who have come here in the last 10 years who have nothing in common with the original population it is no wonder there are big problems which will simply grow as the demographic changes. |
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Don't fret RTB, you are up against a self righteous, intolerant, noisy minority who feel the need to scream that they are "better"-whatever that means- than normal people. Never get into a discussion about the forward consequences of unlimited immigration mind, just the same old insults to silence people.
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Good of you all to come up for air.
So, to sum up. People don't really understand what a racial hate crime is and are reporting people for saying they've got a nice tan, been anywhere nice? Secondly, it's all a drop in the ocean compared to the crimes committed by those filthy foreigners so that's alright then. People from other countries (or anyone wearing a burka, as they're surely a foreigner) are obliged to explain the actions of psychopaths who happen to share the same religion as them. A mealy mouthed point. The fact that the head cop in the country felt compelled to say that there had been a spike means nothing. Absolutely nothing. At all. No sirree. He's as biased as the Beeb, the Guardian, and the MusimsAreGreat Times. Back down into the sand lads eh? |
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Shrewdie, to be fair you say a part of the increase is down to people changing their mind on what a crime is? Do you agree that another part of the increase is down to, y'know, an actual proper increase?
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United Airlines passenger asked to switch seats because two Pakistani men did not want to sit beside her, `cultural beliefs`
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The point is we don't know. It may be and if there is an increase in convictions then that would mean that there has been an increase but an increase in reported incidents doesn't mean there has been an increase in offences. To state there has been an increase because more people have reported incidents is merely conjecture presented by people like the media and you to stir up sentiment that Brexit is solely about racism.
Of course people don't understand what a racial hate crime is. I gave you an example of Farage being reported for something which is quite clearly not a racial hate crime. You also don't seem to understand what a hate crime is either, or rather what is required for a hate crime report incident to be recorded. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2014-to-2015 This release contains figures on the number of racist incidents reported to police forces in England and Wales (excluding British Transport Police). A ‘racist incident’ is any incident, including any crime, which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person’s race or perceived race. Racist incidents can include notifiable offences, non-notifiable offences (e.g. some types of anti-social behaviour), incidents that were not subsequently recorded as crimes and ‘cancelled or transferred records’ (formerly referred to as no crimes) 4. Conversely, certain race hate crimes may not have been initially recorded as racist incidents if the racial motivation was not immediately apparent. For these reasons, the racist incidents total does not match the race hate crimes total. You don't think that the way that people bandied about the use of the word racism during the build up to Brexit (by the media, politicians etc) would have an affect on what people consider as racist or consider as a persons motives when they report a crime? |