May the horse be with you Vel.

Vel, I understand the point you're making but I would rather listen to a recording of a great orchestra playing a wonderful piece than never hear it at all. The same applies to replicas of all works of art.

Take the three dimensional effect that Foinavon seems able to insert in his paintings. I don't have to smell the paint to appreciate his talent.

Sorry, Vel, but I'm too thick to understand your sarcasm. I shall go and stand in my coroner.

"weight"

i've sold a dozen on ebay, but at any one time there are over 4 million artworks on sale on ebay? so it's a job to sell?
you have to give assurances that it's a real painting and not a print. Because the chinese are flooding the market with prints that have paint overlaid on it.

you can go to boots and get an image printed onto canvas cloth. Stretch it and then paint on top, like painting by numbers. Bizarre.

Computers can take an image and paint direct to canvas.

the artist is getting pushed out of the picture.

Nice - it's an exciting angle...the clods of dirt flying...

They position cameras at the Grand National to get that sort of view, especially at Bechers. You see the power of the horse and the skill and balance of the jocks just to stay on board.

Don't know who your jockey is but I don't follow the sport anymore. Nice portrait.

I think Vel's jockey is Tom Queally.

Thanks M-D. Back then my drawing ability was OK but painting was no better than just colouring in.

Jack, interesting point you raise.
My view is that it's your piece of paper or canvas and you can do what you want with it. It would be dishonest to trace something then claim one had done it freehand but that's a different matter. Some of the most revered artists are known to have used "Camera Obscura" Canaletto being a notable example. As Zorro mentioned some artists (and forgers) have been known to use photocopies onto wood or canvas then overpaint them. Some create original images on the computer or use their computer to manipulate existing images or photos and colour them to their own satisfaction. If you're selling stuff you have to be aware that original work, like literature is copyright of the artist that created it or of his beneficiaries.
If you're wondering, I draw all my work freehand although I will sometimes draw a simple cross on the paper in pencil to help with the layout. I often copy other work in this way or take bits from different photos and assemble them in my own way or leave bits out and add bits in to my own satisfaction.
Intersting to see what others think.

Aww, was sure I was correct

Stunning painting anyway

Andreas Gursky photo - RHINE II - sold for $4.3 million.

That's right Vel, Steve McCurry (who did "Afghan Girl") is one.
A helpful technique is to grid the picture you want to copy and your canvas and this helps with drawing and scale up if desired. Drawing freehand is hard but gets easier with practice. It also gives a "signature" to your work and makes it unique. I often just draw in smaller figures with the paintbrush as they look natural and less rigid than drawing them first in pencil, however portraits and larger figures are better when carefully drawn first.

All the Old Masters did a "square up" technique to transfer drawings to canvas...draw a measured grid.

Gott im Himmel

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/Rhein_II.jpg

Saw a programme on Michelangelo where they showed that he did the drawings for his frescos on paper in advance then perforated along the lines and blew soot through them to transfer the image to wet plaster. He and his assistants then painted furiously to complete the colouring before the plaster dried. Was backbreaking work painting ceilings for Popes.

In most cases when you see an artist's portfolio you see a range of work using pencil, charcoal,watercolour and oil paints etc. They show they are proficient in all media. Like Michelangelo - Squaring up and tracing is used when it becomes a shortcut. It's not cheating. the composition is worked out and the drawing isn't the important thing anymore it's the initial idea. Soon to be subsumed under layers of paint.

But if you cannot draw freehand at all, if you rely entirely on other imagery and copying you are a copyist. No artistic eye exists. You like an image and recreate it in a different media. Some artists start like this and move away from it.
The old painters of history trained like this. They were given their masters work and told to recreate it to understand the process.

did a lot of B/W drawing in the eighties. I have one i did from a photographic album from my local library - very copyist. I'll try and post it tomorrow.

For illustration photos are used all the time as reference.

Just like to say again that there are lots of really great pictures in this thread that I would have hanging on my wall any day. Thanks Chaps and Chappettes.

Flippin' 'eck...I have to say I've never ever even heard of oiled charcoal! So thanks for that, Foinavon.

Straight away, I thought there'd be greasy "halos" around the lines, as I've done oil paintings on card and paper and such is the case. Anyway...yer basic google produces some beautiful drawings and paintings from American realist artists.