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Will Jeremy Corbyn step down from the leadership contest?
Will Jeremy Corbyn step down from the leadership contest?
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Replies: 180
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That ship has sailed paddle. You want something back? You take it when they come cap in hand. You don't turn round nearly a decade later and say, "about that time we did you a favour".
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It's a few posts up Eggy in which you say that capitalism is rotten. Crony capitalism which we have at the moment is certainly rotten. Capitalism is also to some extent rotten. But as Churchill said look at the alternatives. Capitalism proved over many decades to be rotten, sometimes inefficient and often disreputable but it made everybody richer. Socialism/communism wherever it got its hooks in made people poorer. Sure that poverty and misery was shared equally by all but the party apparatchiks but shared poverty was both its redeeming feature and largest vice.
It was a bankrupt philosophy intellectually and even while casting no more than a cursory eye towards its travails capitalism bankrupted socialism in reality ever so easily. Next question. |
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..Greece is an inescapable fact of......and example of.....rampant one way free bet nothing to lose capitalism....
An example of a society...and the ordinary population of that soceity......having to absorb the financial losses of decisions made by the capitalist elite to lend to that populations government KNOWING that sais government and by extension the people's ruled by that government could never pay the monies back...... ....why would such highly educated master of the financial world universal types lend such vast amounts to a country knowing said country could never pay back....... ...because they knew they would be bailed out on any losses that hadn't already been passed on as CDO's by those sharing the same curency.....namely the taxpayers of Europe........Germany and France primarily...... .....the taxpayers of said countries are simply subsidising the one way free bets of their own countries banks and financial elites. .....and just as populations all round the globe did in 2008 and are continuing to do under the guise of financial probity. |
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I don't personally want anything back! I was just saying....and pointing out the irony of the situation which would involve a lot less financial loses for the wealthy under Corbyn than it would have if the banks were not nationalised.
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I don't think anyone would say sharing poverty is a good thing. But how can sharing prosperity a bit more equally be a bad thing?
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...you are missing the point entirely eet.....
...I have never and am not advocating socialism. |
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You obviously either didn't read or understand my earlier post which you described as drivel Eggy. There was a clear precedent set in 98 with LTCM being bailed out which sent a clear message to such investors. Gone were the days where your company sank with malinvestment but only if you were too big to fail. So private banks piled debt onto countries like Greece betting that the effects of default would be so great that instead of them being on the hook it would as also happened in 2008 be taxpayers. These people don't take decisions in an intellectual vaccuum and their gamble paid off.
I made the point circa 2009 to explain things. Think Karate Kid. You walk on the left side of the road where everybody knows that if you fucck up you pay the price in terms of your job, your company, your shareholders and investors losing their money and any combination of them losing their liberty. Okay. Here you can rely on oversight from a variety of sources. Or you can walk on the right side of the road with proper Glass Steagel type oversight and again. Okay. Walk in the middle of the road with lax oversight and the assumption that if it goes t1ts up that somebody will bail you out and pretty soon like grape. You go squish. |
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Or rather somebody does and it isn't you.
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Well take your dancing shoes off Eggy and explain clearly what you are advocating.
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Capitalism......pure and simple.
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The devil in the sharing prosperity is in the detail paddle.
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This is all a bit too complicated for me. I know just enough about some things to be dangerous! Where I come from you pay your debts and don't go crying to mummy and daddy looking a pull out.
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And by pure and simple what do you mean exactly? Lassez fairre of the libertarian perspective embracing the Austrian economic perspective?
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Are you googling Eggy? It's not a trap. Honest.
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......forget all the different schools and economic philosophies eet......
....capitalism...pure and simple......you succeed or fail on the quality of the goods or service you provide and the efficiency with which you provide said goods and services....... ...your success and failure should not be dependant on your size or the social or political consequences of your failure...... ..or your access ......to thanks to political connection and favour.....of capital at preferential....almost zero cost....rates. |
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....obviously not eet......
...common sense will suffice for me. |
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Without putting words in your mouth it seems you rail against crony capitalism which if my political philosophy can be distilled down to one principle that is the crucial fight of the 21st century.
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...chop chop eet.....
....your not googling Adam smith are you...... |
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....on that we can agree eet....
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Just too late to hit home. Eggy.
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I told you I'd win you round. You seem a smart guy so I knew it wouldn't be long.
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.hhhhmmmmmmm.
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I detect a hint of doubt still Eggy? Other than point out that in less than the golden hour I turned your denouncements of my "drivel" to having you eating out of the palm of my hand. Not a record but not far off. Will nobody present a real challenge? Facts and Studybore have signed themselves into a clinic. I feel like Alexander.
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.....it is still a fact that the bad....reckless....contrived....decisions of the financial elite and those that are in control of all money issuance.......who support them.......
.....and the financial losses that resulted as a consequence of those decisions were socialised........ ......capitalism's losses were bailed out by socialism....most notably since 2008 .....and Greece 2010 to 2015....but as you mention before then as well and actually as far back as the inception of the fractional reserve Ponzi system...... ...(war being the loss socialiser of last resort)...... ........seems to me Corbyn simply wants the other side as well.......share the profits as well......doesn't seem that unreasonable......if you are getting the downside why not get some of the up....... .....we are all in it together after all....... .....hhhmmmmm..sounds familiar.........where have I heard that before???????? |
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...a small fox is looking at me through the patio doors....he wants some bread and honey.....yep.
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Ahhaaaa...got a rubbishy pic of the fella....will post it tommoro
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Which begs the question why you denounced as drivel very similar sentiments I expressed earlier?
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1042 eet...
In response to paddltoe.... ...you said socialism had to do no such thing. And 1044 ....bullshiit....was your response |
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I'm a firm believer in pure capitalism but I alluded to the fact there and then in my later post that socialism/interventionism could have it's place as long as it is done consistently and early enough. Running round like Chicken Little screaming for bailouts when the wheels come off is both immoral and as I said socialising the losses which is venal.
I called bullshiit on your comment that socialism had to sustain the losses. It didn't. I also called bullshiit on your suggestion that it was the "right" when as you have now agreed this amounts to no more than crony capitalism and not what any right wing posters on here advocate. And as I pointed out earlier the world and his dog had seen that capitalism had retreated a decade earlier to be replaced by cronyism. |
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I see.
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...thanks for coming round to my way of thinking.
..I knew I'd win you round. Your a smart guy so I knew it wouldn't be long. |
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Arguments with EO are not supposed to end like this. Getting EO to bow on the altar of an opposing argument is exceptionally rare.
Congratulations Egner. |
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why would he step down if he wins
 surely better to not bother running in the first placewhy would he care about a no confidence motion of MPs when it is not MPs deciding the election ? what confidence would the members have in the MPs if they disown him ? they will just have to put up with him if he wins , otherwise the party will split like 1931 |
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Paddle, “I would look at it differently. The people who might be taxed more and or not able to take advantage of aggressive tax avoidance should take some satisfaction that they are contributing a bit more to their country. They are not losing any money because its not their money until they pay their taxes whatever that may be at any time.
I don't believe people as you say might leave the country. If they did want to leave they are the type of people the country can live without. I would like to see their citizenship removed so they cant just return when they want.” That is where we differ completely. You seem to have a socialist statist mind set where you see everything as belonging to the state and we should be grateful for what we allowed to hold onto. I have the opposite view, anything I earn or possess is mine first and foremost and will be passed on to my descendants, taxes are just a cut that the government are demanding and I will always seek reduce that amount . I take no satisfaction at all in handing over 40% of some my earnings (and I’ve yet to speak to someone on higher rate that does), especially when I am vehemently opposed to how some of that money is spent and ‘distributed’. People left in the 70s and are leaving now for a better life elsewhere, this would just accelerate under a Corbyn style administration and I would probably be one of them. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1579345/Biggest-brain-drain-from-UK-in-50-years.html I’m not sure how you think “they are the type of people the country can live without” if a very noticeable number leave given how much the economy depends upon them via their skills and the taxes they contribute already. E.g. We could lose the bottom 5 million and the country/economy wouldn’t even pause, if we lost 5 million off the top end , the economy would lose a massive chunk of it’s tax receipts, let alone the lost intellectual capital, how would that pan out? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8417205.stm The hard fact is most people have no desire to be Boxer in Animal Farm and don’t strive to get on just hand most of it over so useless cnts down the road who didn’t want to bother can have an easier time of it. |
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A growing wave of support for Corbyn. A proper socialist in the mould of Tony Benn.
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Jeremy now 13/8 2nd favourite with 365, the other 3 Blairites on the drift, Jeremy the the truth will be victorious happy and glorious.
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paddletoe
29 Jul 15 01:42 Joined: 24 Jul 07 | Topic/replies: 9,371 | Blogger: paddletoe's blog Arguments with EO are not supposed to end like this. Getting EO to bow on the altar of an opposing argument is exceptionally rare. Congratulations Egner. ......thanks paddletoe..........somehow though I doubt EO sees it quite like that.......!!!!!!!...though if nothing else I was up late enough to see our resident fox......and help him on his way with a honey sandwich....the handsome furry fella. |
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...now fav with 365 and Hills. Will be fav across the board by end of today
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Don't be taken in paddle. The more intelligent ones see which way the wind blows and fall into line. It's a bit like a Sergeant Major telling his slovenly charges to fall in. Some of the wags may say they are only doing it because they like standing to attention. They can explain it however they like as long as they do as they're told.
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He must be minted. A trouser press in every hotel room in the country.
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