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These 52 comments are related to the topic:
BBC doc on doping.

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Replies: 52
By:
bix
When: 05 Jun 15 08:53
rogerthebutler's contribution to this thread carries the most weight as he is probably the only one who has any experience of testing at top level.
Naydam asks what drugs might Jim Peters have been using.
He might have been on amphetamines which were being used by endurance athletes after World War 2 as amphetamines were developed by the military to keep personnel alert and active while in combat.
By:
rogerthebutler
When: 05 Jun 15 09:20
Thanks bix.

It's hard to argue with the 'everyone is using gear' cynics. Sport is such a broad church and different federations have different rules, face different threats and have different resources to combat them.

Can I honestly say 'such and such sport is clean' or 'so and so athlete is clean'. No I can't, just as idle, uninformed speculation about Mo Farah based on his eyes (for Christ sakes) is no proff that he's using gear.

All you can do is understand the rigours of the testing process for certain sports, the peer group pressure there is NOT to cheat (and one thing team sports could do would be to disqualify the entire team if one player is found to be using gear) and I would have said the commercial imperative of key sponsors wishing to be associated with clean sports / athletes, until you look at the Nike / Gatlin deal, which beggars belief.

That's before you get onto the moral issue of what do we play sport for as a society?
By:
Mikael D'Haguenet
When: 05 Jun 15 09:28
Part of the problem is that we know that many cheats have been routinely tested on numerous occasions and NOT failed a test or, if they have, it's been covered up or explained away with a doctor's note for a rash!
By:
rogerthebutler
When: 05 Jun 15 09:51
So what do you do?

Change the toleration levels of tests and run the risk of excluding hitherto clean athletes? Or stay as we are and effectively accommodate the 'microdosers' pushing at the margins of testing acceptability?

It's not an easy one to answer.

Drugs cheating is different to other forms of cheating in that messing with your chemical blueprint, as an athlete, it can get you killed (see Tommy Simpson, Lyle Alzado and many others) and that is no template to hold up to a kid playing Little League sport or turning out for his local under 11's. Yes drugs testing is imperfect (you could start by levying a tithe on all sports based on their federations annual income, to go to the funding of WADA) and the punishments are laughable but that's no reason to stop trying in my opinion.
By:
Mikael D'Haguenet
When: 05 Jun 15 10:13
I don't know what the authorities do. I do know that as a member of the 'all at it' camp that I don't trust them to expose cheating, even if they do catch offenders.

Btw, I'd never heard of Alzado but a qwiki suggests that there is no proof that his steroid use contributed in any way to his early demise.
By:
rogerthebutler
When: 05 Jun 15 10:32
Well, the authorities patently do expose cheats when they catch them - it's that fact that, I would suggest, leads to the 'well if Lance Armstrong is at it (i.e has been caught and exposed) then they all are' Catch-22 scenario.

Re Alzado, I don't suppose you would ever get cast iron proof that 'action a led to consequence y'. Roy Castle thought his lung cancer was caused by years of passive smoking in working mens clubs, but maybe he had a genetic predisposition anyway - who knows?

Can we agree that mega-doses of drugs, beyond what is prescribed even by underground pharmacists, cannot be good for one's long term health?
By:
Mikael D'Haguenet
When: 05 Jun 15 10:57
Armstrong won seven Tours de France AFTER failing a drugs test. Carl Lewis failed THREE tests at the 1988 US Olympic trials, yet the infinitely less marketable Ben Johnson was the fall guy. Over 100 US athletes failed tests between 1988-2000 yet were covered up. Others, such as Marion Jones, apparently never failed a test at all, at least not until 2006 when we now know she'd been using long before her successes at the 2000 Olympics.

The authorities cannot be trusted.
By:
Degs
When: 05 Jun 15 11:08
As I understand it, Carl Lewis tested positive, but in those days before strict liability was introduced it was allowed to plead mitigating circumstances. However, if the same case arose today, he would not have tested positive in the first place, as the threshold for those substances is higher.

Either way, he got off. The real scandal was indeed that the positive test and outcome was not made public at the time.

There is a book called "The Dirtiest Race in History" which is a good read if you're genuinely interested in this stuff. It centres around the 1988 Olympic 100m, but covers many other aspects of the Johnson/Lewis rivalry, commercialism of the sport and, of course, the whole doping culture. It's available as an e-book and quite cheap.
By:
leazes67
When: 05 Jun 15 11:12
Not forgetting Flo Jo.
By:
brendanuk1
When: 05 Jun 15 11:14
flo jo was as clean as anyone whoever raced. Otherwise you're just a speculating gossip monger Crazy Omerta is the word Wink
By:
Mikael D'Haguenet
When: 05 Jun 15 11:15
I did a quick search for 'steroids in the NFL' but couldn't come up with anything of great substance. However, wiki provides this tidbit: Since the NFL started random, year-round tests and suspending players for banned substances [in 1987,] many more players have been found to be in violation of the policy. By April 2005, 111 NFL players had tested positive for banned substances, and of those 111, the NFL suspended 54.

Obviously those numbers are 10 years old but less than half of those failing tests were suspended. I'm not a fan of American football anyway but I'd guess there are way more than 111 players currently playing who aren't clean. I do know they recently did an investigation into shrinking balls but only one player was suspended!
By:
Degs
When: 05 Jun 15 11:22
The point made before about people not getting caught by testing is very valid. It's for this reason that some athletes who get caught now are given much lighter bans if they are prepared to spill the beans and name names. I think Tyson Gay was an example of this (apologies if I'm wrong).

I read somewhere a while back that catching people by intelligence methods is seen as more effective than testing. Sad, but that's how it is.
By:
xmoneyx
When: 05 Jun 15 12:03
Allan Wells has claimed he has been the victim of a ‘hatchet job’ and plans to fight allegations in a BBC documentary that he doped his way to Olympic gold.

In the Panorama investigation aired on Wednesday evening, the retired Scotsman was accused of taking the banned anabolic steroid stanozolol before winning the 100m title at the 1980 Games in Moscow.

The main claims were made by former rival Drew McMaster, who has previously admitted to taking performance drugs, and Wells told Sportsmail that he is the victim of a personal vendetta.


would anyone say it to allan wells face?Excited
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