Can you spot what's wrong in this photograph?

How original zzzzzzz

What's your motivation? Do you think it makes you the big man? Pray tell us.

There was, about 9 years ago, a beautiful thread by a poster named drags, in which he superbly, and extremely poignantly described the last days of his beloved dog.It was a terrific thread, although extremely sad, similar to the one Harry Cripps did not long after. It was very well observed and contibuted to thread, and crags only comment (posting as kerrymore then) was get over it, it's only a dog. Spoke volumes about the man.

It obviously makes him feel big. Sad really.

Eh? Just off to bed, what on earth are you talking about man? Aren't I allowed an opinion?

Night

Link for petition to follow

It's the consumers fault. Naturally people look for the best price.
Then factor in the supermarket price war and it's the farmers and animals that lose out.

looks like the post that kenny made spewing abuse at me has been removed, and rightly so. I only made a joke, good one as well. Boar off

Some very touchy people oh here, especially when they've had a drink.

Wasn't that funny that you needed to post a laughing emoticon twice in succession.

"kenny mann 16 May 15 01:08 
There was, about 9 years ago, a beautiful thread by a poster named drags, in which he superbly, and extremely poignantly described the last days of his beloved dog."

For all dog lovers, James Stewart fans, Kenny Mann, and anyone with a soul:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwGnCIdHQH0

come on kenny where's the link?

Without looking at the link, that will be the poem James Stewart wrote about his dog, JC. It's terrific, seen it a few times.

coming up tonight B-B, thanks for your interest.

Yes Kenny. I know you want to click on it, but don't have any tissues to hand .

(for the TEARS, not the same reason acquise or crags grab tissues when looking at videos )

If you love dogs, check out this video from Peta, and try to hold back the tears...

http://www.peta.org.uk/blog/were-calling-on-the-eu-to-ban-dog-leather/

No way I'm clicking on that, don't even want to think about it.

LAst nights c4 program about b*stard poachers killing rhinos for idiot chinese who believe in horn voodoo is enough misery for this month!

No way I'm clicking on that, don't even want to think about it.

LAst nights c4 program about b*stard poachers killing rhinos for idiot chinese who believe in horn voodoo is enough misery for this month!

Has it got a happy ending? I suspect not.

its introduced by Joaquin Phoenix...

HERES'S THE PETITION

Thanks in anticipation of lots of signatures


http://action.ciwf.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=119&ea.campaign.id=38488&ea.tracking.id=7774353c&utm_campaign=pigs&utm_source=actionemail&utm_medium=email&ea.url.id=401724&forwarded=true

Signed

Cheers Kenny. Will sign now.

2 signatures well done, let's make it 200

Petition link


http://action.ciwf.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=119&ea.campaign.id=38488&ea.tracking.id=7774353c&utm_campaign=pigs&utm_source=actionemail&utm_medium=email&ea.url.id=401724&forwarded=true

It's not just pigs of course.Look round the site. All animals that we eat have in cases of factory farming to endure a living hell.

Here´s another petition, against to China´s dog leather trade:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/345/626/727/lets-end-chinas-shocking-fur-trade/?taf_id=13747470&cid=fb_na#

Please sign.

done

Petition isn't loading TTO. I will try again tomorrow.

2 petitions to sign please

Original one

http://action.ciwf.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=119&ea.campaign.id=38488&ea.tracking.id=7774353c&utm_campaign=pigs&utm_source=actionemail&utm_medium=email&ea.url.id=401724&forwarded=true

Here´s another petition, against to China´s dog leather trade:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/345/626/727/lets-end-chinas-shocking-fur-trade/?taf_id=13747470&cid=fb_na#

loads here MD

signed and shared on FB kenny, thanks for posting this

also signed the dog one 

done but I don't have facebook

Kenny, I will gladly sign both, and this thread has made me look at my (almost local) butcher, he is in the "good life" for animals category. it's more money, so what, WTF is that compared to the misery inflicted on defencless animals. Thanks mate for waking me up.

I would never knowingly support anything that is cruel to animals.

Well done guys and gals.

That's the trouble foxy people don't always know they're supporting cruelty although some wouldn't care if they did, they buy half a pound of pre-packed bacon in Morrisons for example and it will say from EU countries usually. Several of the EU countries are flouting the sow stall ban that was brought into place a couple of years back, and that is worse than the pigs in the first photo.

Imagine spending your life in a cage hardly able to move. Doesn't bear thinking about.

best advice is use your local butcher people.

2 petitions to sign please

Original one

http://action.ciwf.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=119&ea.campaign.id=38488&ea.tracking.id=7774353c&utm_campaign=pigs&utm_source=actionemail&utm_medium=email&ea.url.id=401724&forwarded=true

Here´s another petition, against to China´s dog leather trade:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/345/626/727/lets-end-chinas-shocking-fur-trade/?taf_id=13747470&cid=fb_na#

nobody brave enough to watch the PETA video?

Not me, Tip', I can't abide watching animal cruelty in videos. Bad enough looking at some of the stills on the Compassion site.

I've watched loads of Animal Rescue programmes, and there's some strong stuff on those, but they have limits. I suspect the Peta footage doesn't.

Kenny, this might sound peculiar. but I have always been able to withstand accidents/violence/blood letting against myself, I can brush it off in many cases, but when I've seen violence/mistreatment against other/defenceless people/animals  I just can't control my emotions at times. Please tell me it's not just me

No it's not, foxy'. There's millions of us, but not many that do anything positive about it, like signing this petition.

That's what I suspected Kenny, but have never been lucky enough to meet like minded souls, or given the circumstances where they could express their  true feelings. I'm not one for joying groups, so maybe it's down to me.

FFs BTF will you give it a rest

This will make you smile.

The great Simon Cowell rescuing a trapped fawn. What a great man he is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zqud8oN5ag

Well done (again) Kenny.  Signed.  Some good people on this thread.

boxingthefox 16 May 15 23:42
That's what I suspected Kenny, but have never been lucky enough to meet like minded souls.

Sounds fishy to me BTF

Well!! oronscart that just about shows your measure.

Thanks Rodrigo.


2 petitions to sign please

Original one

http://action.ciwf.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=119&ea.campaign.id=38488&ea.tracking.id=7774353c&utm_campaign=pigs&utm_source=actionemail&utm_medium=email&ea.url.id=401724&forwarded=true

Here´s another petition, against to China´s dog leather trade:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/345/626/727/lets-end-chinas-shocking-fur-trade/?taf_id=13747470&cid=fb_na#

Not so many sinatures

**** me, what a pathetic response

.

signed

well done spelling

Kenny

Neither myself nor the wife are meat eaters but we are members of Compassion and she bleeds me dry for the animal charities. If all you've done is open a few eyes with your thread then that's a wonderful thing. I'm not someone who likes to tell people what they should eat and where from but you've had a few people tell you they weren't aware so you're doing a good thing. Anybody who has a go at you are quite entitled to be unfeeling priicks if that is their thing but please keep up your good work.

Thanks
Eeternaloptimist, that's really cheered me up. Animal cruely makes me feel sick and depressed, I mean really bloody depressed when I see photos and videos. Trouble is most people can't be bothered, even if it means signinga simple petition.

But I've decided to push it this time and ask each forumite to sign the 2 petitions on my thread. I've asked naydam and spelling so far and spelling ha signed.

apologies for bad spelling, had a few.

signed - just forgot to post here.

I have a SO for The Brooke which is a charity committed to the welfare of working animals  (mainly horse and donkeys) throughout the world.
But we also give ad hoc donations to others.
Not fortunes but as much, maybe more, that we can afford.

The Brooke is one of ours as well Aka.

I'd love to give more but retired we need to budget for everything so feel I give as much as I can.
BTW I struggle to look at some of the stuff The Brooke send me Eeter.
Animals laid down with about 100 bricks or whatever else they have to carry. Sad beyond words and greatly upsets me.

I have to confess I don't look at anything like that. If it's on the news I turn over. If it's in the post the wife opens it and then we sign any petitions. Humans I am far less moved by because we bring so much of it on ourselves but seeing animals and especially sentient ones capable of love and affection in pain or treated badly by mankind is too much for me.

Both petitions now signed.

Both petitions signed, keep up the good work Kenny.

Cheers Tto.

Well done all.

ttt one last time, in the slim hope that there's some compassionate people about.

signed both

Thanks triby.

trilby*22

Here´s another one for dogs:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/734/492/239/stop-the-summer-solstice-june-21st-dog-meat-festival-yulin-/?taf_id=11481698&cid=fb_na

Just in case you think your efforts are pointless, here is some good news:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/world/asia/dog-meat-festival-is-canceled-in-china.html?_r=0

Wow, that wasn't my petition, TiptheOdds but great news nevertheless.

Yours signed, of course.

the mass production of meat whereby animals are kept in diabolical conditions is one of the biggest moral dilemma's facing the world. this meat should not be eaten.

It is though, see the what's your favourite pork thread.

please sign my petition

www.stopcastratingracehorsesforthebenefitoffilthyarbers.org/petition

WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE PART DEUX...

Actual screenshot from MotD without any photoshopping.

[   This image is no longer available.   ]

Nothing wrong with a bit of filthy arbing, Fishwick!

An update

Dear kenny,


Your email to stop the approval of fully slatted floors for European pigs is getting Agriculture Ministers across Europe thinking. Over 37,000 Compassion supporters have taken action so far and I am so grateful, thank you. But the Ministers still haven’t made up their mind. 


With just days before a decision is made, there’s still time to change the fate of Europe’s pigs. So, if you haven’t already, will you now encourage your friends and family to take action?

Kenny , If every pig we need to eat was reared under the conditions you desire ie free range ,there would be no countryside left ,the amount of damage pigs do to the ground is immense ,they need to be moved onto fresh ground regularly ,the condition of the ground they leave behind is poor ,its simply not feasible .
You want pigs to be reared on non slatted floors in the belief it will improve their existence but i am not so sure its well founded ,the slated floor allows the pig waste to be kept off the animals ,its much more hygienic and allows the removal of what is a highly toxic substance which must be contained and treated and kept out the watercourse .
The addition of straw would allow pig **** to be ingested by the animals and increase disease risk  ,also it would offer harbourage to pests like fleas ect and allow rodents to cover ect 
It is not possible to give the conditions you desire for these animals mainly on the cost issue ,what has happened with intensive livestock rearing in the uk is that due to so many regualtions and animal rights issues the UK pig herds are not profitable ,the EU in its wisdom decided to encourage intensive farming of all kinds to be moved into eastern Europe ,mainly on the reasons of little to no regulations on how they can be housed ,fed ,what chemicals and medicines can be used and the use of very cheap labour .
The entire EU Agricultural common policy is designed to use cheap labour and circumnavigate high costly  food production standards in places like the UK ,again a lot of it due to animal rights pressure ,bans on what can and cannot be used ,restrictions on sow cages ect ect ect .
In the Uk  the amount of animals (pigs) slaughtered each year  is just  10m , no where near  enough ,the constant drive for cheap pork (supermarkets) means we need cheaply reared and produced from Europe ,every time the restrictions increase more animal production is moved to eastern Europe ,where as i have stated labour is cheap and restrictions on animal husbandry and welfare are zero ,never mind the use of drugs ,chemicals ect not to mention what they are actually being fed ,so the more restrictions you add overall the conditions of the pig decrease and  home produced product becomes uneconomical ,the big pig breeders in the uk have been in trouble for ages ,no money in it .
The EU has a lot to answer for ,am not a big bacon fan myself and try and buy British bacon whenever poss but its getting harder and harder ,a used to know a guy who was involved in pig rearing many moons ago and some of the things he told me put me off bacon ,like the way they feed the pigs salt and take there water away and then reintroduce just before slaughter ,the poor buggers drink like fish massively increasing there weight before slaughter ,thats why when you put the bacon under the grill or in the pan all that crap comes out ,water and **** .A always try and buy a dry cured rindless but tbh its not very good for you the old pig and best left alone ,as are most pork products unless you are buying quality stuff ,lets be honest here who really trusts free range labeling ?  its all bollucks and i blame the EU's common agricultural policy for most of it ,but once its non profitable to raise stock here due to restrictions it will all be coming from further and further afield ,well out of sight and beyond control ,fed crap and kept alive with all sorts of  drugs ect ....its a vicious circle .Not easy but overall a bad idea imo ,in the picture you show i dont see anything wrong ,in fact it has sunlight which most pigs will never see ,they are meat  not pets and not to confused with humans .HTH .

PS . A cant be arsed reading that through so may make little sense in parts ,cheers

Bloody hell, that deserves a good read mate, but tomorrow if that's ok.

Bottom line imo is cruelty has no place in animal food production.

Well, I've read your post b@b, and quite frankly, I'm not qualified to answer some of of the points although have an opinion on  a few, particularly the fact that the pigs have sunlight.  I'm pretty sure that they'd be happier in mud with some foliage to play around with. They look bored as feck    and it's totally unnatural, for them. Cruel in fact, but not as cruel as sow stalls. And they maybe meat not pets to most people, but I don't eat meat and think they would be wonderful pets. Highly intelligent animals. Anyway I'm interested in how CIWF will answer your other points so I've forwarded your post onto them. Will probably take them a few days but I WILL post  it in here. Thanks for your reply.

Kenny dont you think you  should have asked  my permission to lift summit off of here before you forward it on ?

its  chit chat and if you wish to debate do some research but i aint gunna be playing the entire wishy washy lefty piggy lovers society through you on an anonymous forum thanks .

if you dont know and cant be bothered researching you should not be involved ,you are actually p1ssing me off now kenny

who the hell is the CIWF  bye the way

Can you spot what's wrong in this photograph?

Just worked it out, everyone at that pig party is a dude! Total sausage fest!

Well it hasn't left my  outbox yet so I'll cancel it. I'm not bothered about doing any research about how everything affects this and that.For a start, I couldn't give a feck and I don't have bloody time. All I'm bothered about is wheter we as a country are bgeing cruel and we are in this instance.

I'll have an answer for you shortly mr bread and butter. Lot of research done on this.

who the hell is the CIWF  bye the way Grin

It's Compassion In World Farming. Why not join, I think you need some?

I think lots do Kenny. Too many people indifferent to the welfare of animals.

Let's tackle the slatted floors first.

Slatted floors are indeed used for the ease in removal of faeces and urine from intensive pig housing units. However many studies have shown the welfare benefits for pigs when they reared on non slatted systems.



The welfare of pigs housed on barren slatted floors is known to be compromised by a number of issues.  Pig’s feet can develop cracks from walking on slats, which then can become infected, eventually leading to lameness. Indeed, lameness has been reported to be 2.4 times higher on slatted flooring in comparison to deep bed systems.  Bursitis (swelling of the hock joint) is also prevalent in slatted systems.



However, the key problem with slatted floors is the difficulty in some systems, due to inadequate design of slurry systems,  of providing sufficient straw to provide both for the welfare needs of pigs. The provision of materials such as straw is also required by UK and EU legislation. The availability of straw in pig housing is known to substantially reduce conflict and cannibalism. Without the presence of bedding materials, biting and chewing behaviours are often redirected to other pigs and objects. This in turn induces tail biting, which is not only a serious welfare concern, but also a contributing factor to great economic loss.  Although tail docking can reduce tail biting behaviour, this painful procedure addresses the symptom of the problem, not the cause.  Deep bed systems, where layers of fibrous material make up the substrate of pig housing, have replaced slatted floors with success in many places. The substrate of deep bedding absorbs the waste from pigs and ammonia emissions are reduced by 50% in comparison with slatted floor systems. Therefore slatted floors are neither a necessity nor the only option for indoor pig production systems.   



Economically, the difference between fully slatted and Freedom Food systems are marginal. Outdoor pig rearing in the UK is on the rise, as the cost of housing and new emission standards have influenced farmers to adopt free-range farming practices. This in turn is creating the opportunity for free range farming to prosper and supply an increasing number of consumers, who are willing to pay extra, with higher welfare animal products

The huge concentrations of waste produced by industrial pig sheds have damaging effects to the environment, particularly the potential of slurry runoff into watercourses, which has serious implications for the environment and public health. Properly designed deep bed systems can avoid this risk. Although pigs can indeed destroy vegetation, good pasture management is key to outdoor rearing. Should this be implemented properly, there are clear benefits for health, the environment and animal welfare.

Is that ok breadnbutter? A lot of bloody work gone into that research, but at least I'm better informed now.

not - a lazy half ersed feable copy and paste attempt  with selective editing

is that it ,you done ?

Rather disapointed tbh Kenny , 6/10 .

No it's not copy and bloody paste

as long as you're satisfied.

I think the pass level is 4.5

That one on the left  is trying to  moon the camera. Agreed, disgraceful he cant even point his butt in the right direction.

Intelligent creatures, and very friendly. Make good pets.Such a shame so many selfish people in this world.

My mother wants a pet pig

good for her Joel.

Pigs are intelligent, inquisitive, social animals. If you are thinking of getting a pig as a pet, there are several things you should consider first.

Many local councils in Australia will not grant permits for a pig to be kept in a backyard, even in some rural areas. The first step is therefore to check with your local council on any requirements it might have.

You also need to check with your state or territory agriculture (or primary industries) department about the laws that apply to keeping pigs. The same laws that apply to commercial piggeries also apply to pet pigs. For example, it is illegal to feed anything containing meat to pigs. Many of these regulations exist to protect the Australian livestock industry from exotic diseases, such as foot-and-mouth disease.

Pigs as pets should be bought from reputable breeders of pet pigs. Ask to view the parents, as this will give a good indication of the size the pig will grow (although some pigs will outgrow their parents). Commercial breeds of pigs can reach 250–300 kg, and it is unwise to keep one of these breeds as pets unless you have a lot of experience with them and plenty of room.

Some information about looking after your pet pig is provided below.

Housing

Pigs require little in the way of housing and can be kept indoors or out. They can be toilet trained like dogs. Indoor pigs will need their own space, preferably their own room with a pile of blankets to nest in. They will also need an outside run so that they can exercise and have an opportunity to use their natural instinct to forage for roots and fungi. Outdoor pigs will need a simple shelter; this could be a purpose-built brick or wooden house or just half a watertank with some straw inside. Because pigs love to nest, you should provide them with straw or sawdust outside or blankets inside. Pigs get sunburnt easily, so they will also require shade, and they will welcome an area where they can have a dirt bath or mud bath. Shade and a bath are essential in hot weather because pigs can’t sweat and therefore overheat easily. Make sure you have a sturdy fence.

Food and drink

Pigs will eat almost anything. They will need cereals such as wheat, barley or oats, and will enjoy apples, kale, and root vegetables such as mangelwurzel or turnips; they will also forage for roots and fallen fruits. You can give them household vegetable and fruit scraps that would otherwise be used for compost. Small amounts of beans, peas or lupins can be fed to provide protein. Alternatively, you can feed your pig specialist pig feed from a rural feed supplier, which will contain all their nutrient needs. All pigs need fresh clean water, but they will try to tip over the container to make mud for wallowing so make sure you use a heavy container.

Health needs

Pet pigs should be desexed by a vet. Undesexed females (sows) will come into heat every 3 weeks, becoming restless, vocal and moody, and undesexed males (boars) will be aggressive, restless and smelly. You should discuss desexing and vaccinations with your vet. Pigs will also need annual worming, and hoof trimming.

Pig behaviour

Pigs require plenty of mental stimulation or they will become bored and destructive. If you have space, you may want to consider a pair of pigs so that they have company when you’re not home. Pigs love human company and enjoy attention, tummy rubs and scratching. In general, they are very friendly animals, but they can become territorial, so keep an eye on territorial behaviour and discourage this while the pigs are young.

Pigs can be easily trained in much the same way as dogs. Food rewards are particularly effective. Pigs can learn their name very quickly, can learn tricks such as sitting or twirling, can be trained to wear a leash or harness, and can be trained to use a large litter box. They appreciate routine in their daily lives.

Because pigs are so inquisitive and enjoy rooting, foraging and chewing, they can be quite destructive, so they might not be the best choice of pet if you want to keep a well-manicured garden. If you keep your pig indoors, destructive tendencies can also be a problem. You should also be aware that pigs can be quite noisy when they are excited (for example, when they are anticipating food), making loud grunts and squeals.

PET PIG CUTEST THING EVER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2FwqsACm08

Thank you Kenny.

You're welcome Joel. Lot to think about there.