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26 Mar 15
01:01
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Date Joined:
28 Aug 07
ok...so why did he leave?? and why did other pilot not let him back in?? interesting.....
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in my opinion , he knew he was going to lose his dream job through ill health
mental or physical , was suicidal and decided to do it this way.
He may even wanted to take just the captain with him , jealousy or maybe the captain
was about to report him. the 150 others were just ..well passengers.
The same rationale as someone whose relationship with their partner has broken down
and kills themselves and their children.
'If I can't have them then neither will anyone else'
mental or physical , was suicidal and decided to do it this way.
He may even wanted to take just the captain with him , jealousy or maybe the captain
was about to report him. the 150 others were just ..well passengers.
The same rationale as someone whose relationship with their partner has broken down
and kills themselves and their children.
'If I can't have them then neither will anyone else'
Someone posted somewhere, the other pilots were disrespecting him, this could also have affected his thinking
??????????????????
??????????????????
the insults were reported as calling him tomato andy assumed because cabin crew wore red outfits
seems a bit of an odd reaction to down a jet solely on that basis
Well it is extreme
The problem is things like this can get to people, if it is overdone, I remember things like this as a kid
I think the other pilots may have to live with this
Although at this stage it could be something else entirely, we cannot jump to conclusions
The problem is things like this can get to people, if it is overdone, I remember things like this as a kid
I think the other pilots may have to live with this
Although at this stage it could be something else entirely, we cannot jump to conclusions
Elsie ,
a tomato , a vegetable that's really a fruit?
a tomato , a vegetable that's really a fruit?
who knows the meaning, but it's probably part of a whole host of bits as have been mentioned, like the girlfriend, stress, medical, poss loss of career, debt, heaped on someone that might be struggling is it enough to kill 150 people?
Whatever it was it was deep I think
He has taken his own life and killed 149 others with no feeling
Once that door was locked he had total power over 149 lives, nobody could stop him and he knew it,
He could play GOD if he did not mind sacrificing his own life..regrettably he did
I think this will be gone into it a lot over the coming weeks/months, mainly was his behaviour predictable or unpredictable
Was anybody responsible, ie the airline.
He has taken his own life and killed 149 others with no feeling
Once that door was locked he had total power over 149 lives, nobody could stop him and he knew it,
He could play GOD if he did not mind sacrificing his own life..regrettably he did
I think this will be gone into it a lot over the coming weeks/months, mainly was his behaviour predictable or unpredictable
Was anybody responsible, ie the airline.
The most likely scenario for me is he did this because his girlfriend dumped him.
He probably had narcissistic tendencies as highlighted when he said to a previous girlfriend that he would go down in history for something.
Girlfriend dumping him, the prospect of losing his job through health reasons and his history of depression.
I think he done it to make his girlfriend live with some sort of guilt for the rest of her life as if this was all her fault.
He probably had narcissistic tendencies as highlighted when he said to a previous girlfriend that he would go down in history for something.
Girlfriend dumping him, the prospect of losing his job through health reasons and his history of depression.
I think he done it to make his girlfriend live with some sort of guilt for the rest of her life as if this was all her fault.
ebulGery,
I've been thinking about your earlier scenario,
What if the opening and closing of cockpit door caused a sudden decompressio/compression
in the cockpit and caused a windscreen or something to blow out ,leading to a blackout.
in the seconds before complete blackout- not knowing what was going on- he locked the door
and reduced height ,but by too much as he was blacking out.
The captain couldn't gain entry using usual methods and used emergency code, so locking the door
for 5 mins .He had been to the toilet and after passing pleasantries with cabin crew most of the
8 mins would have elapsed. (It took 8 mins to descend)
I dont know if cockpit is hermetically sealed off from the cabin or not,
but if it is, then this may not be a too far-fetched scenario.
More or less what you were saying I suppose
I've been thinking about your earlier scenario,
What if the opening and closing of cockpit door caused a sudden decompressio/compression
in the cockpit and caused a windscreen or something to blow out ,leading to a blackout.
in the seconds before complete blackout- not knowing what was going on- he locked the door
and reduced height ,but by too much as he was blacking out.
The captain couldn't gain entry using usual methods and used emergency code, so locking the door
for 5 mins .He had been to the toilet and after passing pleasantries with cabin crew most of the
8 mins would have elapsed. (It took 8 mins to descend)
I dont know if cockpit is hermetically sealed off from the cabin or not,
but if it is, then this may not be a too far-fetched scenario.
More or less what you were saying I suppose
It's too much of a leap of faith to give and credibility to blackouts or windscreen blowing out.
The accepted theory is the only one worth considering. Everything else is in the millions to one shots.
The accepted theory is the only one worth considering. Everything else is in the millions to one shots.
it can't happen like that based on what's been reported, for several reasons
As I said Massive it's far-fetched.
but until it's proved beyond doubt there will be speculation.
but until it's proved beyond doubt there will be speculation.
The screaming started at 10.35
The plane crashed at 10.40
The plane crashed at 10.40
Where did you find that out?
I thought they said the last few seconds.
They must have known they were descending and seen the pilot attacking the cockpit door like a madman.
I thought they said the last few seconds.
They must have known they were descending and seen the pilot attacking the cockpit door like a madman.
The dramatic last moments of the doomed Germanwings flight have been revealed in a chilling transcript of the black box recording that shows the captain screaming at Andreas Lubitz “Open the goddam door”.
Patrick Sondheimer, pilot of the traffic plane, is heard frantically pleading with the killer to let him into the cockpit, just seconds before crashing into the Alps.
The recording is said to begin normally, with the captain apologising to passengers for an almost 30 minute delay in Barcelona.
He then tells them he expects the flight to make up the lost time mid-flight to Dusseldorf.
Andreas Lubitz Germanwings: Live updates on horror French Alps crash
Revealed in the German newspaper Bild, the recordings then show the tragic captain chatting with Lubitz for the next 20 minutes.
According to the paper, the killer co-pilot then tells Mr Sondheimer he can go to the toilet at any time – noting that he had not relieved himself at the airport in Barcelona.
French investigators make their way through debris from wreckage on the mountainside at the crash site of an Airbus A320
A short while later, 10.27am, the plane has reached its cruising altitude of 38,000ft and the captain tells Lubitz to prepare for the landing.
According to investigators, the co-pilot’s responses are said to be “laconic”, with the 27-year-old using phrase such as “hopefully” and “we’ll see”.
Germanwings killer Andreas Lubitz 'trawled internet for suicide and sexual perversion websites'
In one chilling exchange, Lubitz tells the pilot “You can go now” and just two minutes later, the captain is heard saying “You can take over”, before a seat is pushed back and a door opens and closes.
It is at this point that the plane begins to descend and at 10.32am air traffic controllers attempt to contact the flight without any luck.
Shortly after a ‘Sink Rate’ alarm signals followed by loud banging on the cockpit door and Sodheimer yelling: “For god’s sake, open the door.”
According to the report, passengers can now be heard screaming in the background, before, at 10.35am, “loud metallic banging against the cockpit door” is heard once more.
Profile of a killer: Andreas Lubitz is the pilot who crashed flight 4U9525. But who was he?
Just over a minute later, another alarm begins with an automated message going: “Ground. Pull up. Pull up.”
At this point the pilot can be heard screaming: “Open the goddam door.”
As the plane speeds towards the Alps, Lubitz can be heard breathing in the cockpit before the very last moment is picked up by the black box – the plane hitting the ground at 10.40am, with the chilling screams of passengers in the background.
Patrick Sondheimer, pilot of the traffic plane, is heard frantically pleading with the killer to let him into the cockpit, just seconds before crashing into the Alps.
The recording is said to begin normally, with the captain apologising to passengers for an almost 30 minute delay in Barcelona.
He then tells them he expects the flight to make up the lost time mid-flight to Dusseldorf.
Andreas Lubitz Germanwings: Live updates on horror French Alps crash
Revealed in the German newspaper Bild, the recordings then show the tragic captain chatting with Lubitz for the next 20 minutes.
According to the paper, the killer co-pilot then tells Mr Sondheimer he can go to the toilet at any time – noting that he had not relieved himself at the airport in Barcelona.
French investigators make their way through debris from wreckage on the mountainside at the crash site of an Airbus A320
A short while later, 10.27am, the plane has reached its cruising altitude of 38,000ft and the captain tells Lubitz to prepare for the landing.
According to investigators, the co-pilot’s responses are said to be “laconic”, with the 27-year-old using phrase such as “hopefully” and “we’ll see”.
Germanwings killer Andreas Lubitz 'trawled internet for suicide and sexual perversion websites'
In one chilling exchange, Lubitz tells the pilot “You can go now” and just two minutes later, the captain is heard saying “You can take over”, before a seat is pushed back and a door opens and closes.
It is at this point that the plane begins to descend and at 10.32am air traffic controllers attempt to contact the flight without any luck.
Shortly after a ‘Sink Rate’ alarm signals followed by loud banging on the cockpit door and Sodheimer yelling: “For god’s sake, open the door.”
According to the report, passengers can now be heard screaming in the background, before, at 10.35am, “loud metallic banging against the cockpit door” is heard once more.
Profile of a killer: Andreas Lubitz is the pilot who crashed flight 4U9525. But who was he?
Just over a minute later, another alarm begins with an automated message going: “Ground. Pull up. Pull up.”
At this point the pilot can be heard screaming: “Open the goddam door.”
As the plane speeds towards the Alps, Lubitz can be heard breathing in the cockpit before the very last moment is picked up by the black box – the plane hitting the ground at 10.40am, with the chilling screams of passengers in the background.
Atrocious scenario. Hard to imagine the fear they must have felt. What a horrible **** Lubitz must have been.
Never know 100% of what happened, how long before airline have to offer ejecting seats for passengers in case of emergency
M T wallet • March 29, 2015 2:22 PM BST
ebulGery,
I've been thinking about your earlier scenario,
What if the opening and closing of cockpit door caused a sudden decompressio/compression
in the cockpit and caused a windscreen or something to blow out ,leading to a blackout.
one would suspect the black box would have picked that up
surely?
that sounds a good idea padlock, passengers will have to be fitted with parachutes of course
landing by parachute in the Alps does not sound too good, but probably better than what happened.
ebulGery,
I've been thinking about your earlier scenario,
What if the opening and closing of cockpit door caused a sudden decompressio/compression
in the cockpit and caused a windscreen or something to blow out ,leading to a blackout.
one would suspect the black box would have picked that up
surely?
that sounds a good idea padlock, passengers will have to be fitted with parachutes of course
landing by parachute in the Alps does not sound too good, but probably better than what happened.
Ye but would be expensive im sure and extreme quickness needed unless get the roof to go asap,not sure that works ...
yes I doubt it is practical padlock, although I would be feel safer with a parachute
They will just have to have a makeshift loo in the cockpit, or before one person leaves the cockpit
another must replace them from the cabin crew, before they leave, never leave one person on their own
This is rare but not unique, it has happened before
Because of the fear hijackers breaking into the cockpit the door has been made unbreakable, but was the last thing needed in this situation
They will just have to have a makeshift loo in the cockpit, or before one person leaves the cockpit
another must replace them from the cabin crew, before they leave, never leave one person on their own
This is rare but not unique, it has happened before
Because of the fear hijackers breaking into the cockpit the door has been made unbreakable, but was the last thing needed in this situation
I would think that fitting ejector seats and hence a roof that can be quickly got rid of is a very good idea.
I'm sure that would just hasten everyones demise at that altitude.
I'm sure that would just hasten everyones demise at that altitude.
This follows on from one Malysian airliner flying itself to unknown destruction, after possible hypoxia of cockpit crew
another one destroyed by a missile
and now a German airliner destroyed by a suicide pilot
One could argue it is the human connection which is failing, not the planes themselves
another one destroyed by a missile
and now a German airliner destroyed by a suicide pilot
One could argue it is the human connection which is failing, not the planes themselves
Mexico • March 28, 2015 7:45 PM GMT
Yep bread, and I'm sure your friends with the tin foil hats, were claiming that the U.S. government sank the Titanic to stop Russia getting control of the oil. Ect ect ect
take it you were just having a bad day mexico ?
Yep bread, and I'm sure your friends with the tin foil hats, were claiming that the U.S. government sank the Titanic to stop Russia getting control of the oil. Ect ect ect
take it you were just having a bad day mexico ?
ebul ....you missed one that crashed into the sea .
apologies breadmbutter..was that not the Malaysian one that flew on for hours then crashed into sea after fuel ran out
or maybe I have missed one
or maybe I have missed one
good for that akabula...relieved when travelling from say London to Manchester
all the passengers are not suddenly ejected through the roof
all the passengers are not suddenly ejected through the roof
two Malaysian Airlines and a Air Asia on 20th jan this year
I've managed to convince myself that the chit chatters suggesting parachutes and ejector seats are only kidding. I mean, how do you survive being flung out of a 500mph jet at 40,000ft in your ordinary clothes? The deceleration of you meeting 500mph airflow would probably break your neck (somewhat like TWA800? - where everyone's neck was broken by the sudden explosion of the fuel tank and the resulting deceleration).
And you can bet, if there was the opportunity to eject, it couldn't be in the hands of the idiot passengers, no one would ever arrive anywhere they were supposed to, one little bit of turbulence and we'd all be floating down in the darkness. And individual ejection is obviously out. So if there was a button to eject everyone, it'd be in the Captain's flight panel and that's up there, behind the locked door with the suicidal co pilot.
And you can bet, if there was the opportunity to eject, it couldn't be in the hands of the idiot passengers, no one would ever arrive anywhere they were supposed to, one little bit of turbulence and we'd all be floating down in the darkness. And individual ejection is obviously out. So if there was a button to eject everyone, it'd be in the Captain's flight panel and that's up there, behind the locked door with the suicidal co pilot.
sorry breadnbutter...blamed pilot error, they climbed too steeply engine stalled
Of course parachutes are out due to altitude and speed of modern passenger planes FlowerMyth
...also what about children and old people..and one needs to be parachute trained..
Of course parachutes are out due to altitude and speed of modern passenger planes FlowerMyth
...also what about children and old people..and one needs to be parachute trained..
Ejection seats are high maintenance bulky things with big feckin rockets in them.
There is a hole blown in the glass directly above the pilot then he (wearing a helmet) is shot through it.
How could that work on a liner when you're packed in like sardines with luggage above you?
You'd fit about 1/2 the people you currently do on and pay 4x the ticket price, then be fired at high velocity straight into your duty free. If they didn't all go off at exactly the same time you'd have rockets shooting past burning your face off, if they did all go off at exact same time it would be like skittles, people would be banging into each other, legs torn off, head injuries, and parachutes getting tangled and so on. And if you weren't buckled in correctly and tightly you'd be flung out the thing or have your spine broken. It's bascially a non starter.
Be fun to watch though if it was people you didn't like!
There is a hole blown in the glass directly above the pilot then he (wearing a helmet) is shot through it.
How could that work on a liner when you're packed in like sardines with luggage above you?
You'd fit about 1/2 the people you currently do on and pay 4x the ticket price, then be fired at high velocity straight into your duty free. If they didn't all go off at exactly the same time you'd have rockets shooting past burning your face off, if they did all go off at exact same time it would be like skittles, people would be banging into each other, legs torn off, head injuries, and parachutes getting tangled and so on. And if you weren't buckled in correctly and tightly you'd be flung out the thing or have your spine broken. It's bascially a non starter.
Be fun to watch though if it was people you didn't like!
The problem will solved in the not too distant future when planes are flown from the ground. The pilots on the plane will be more like passengers in the best seats.
Incidentally, most modern jets only have two up the front, the role of Flight Engineer (often the most sensible practical guy on board) has all but vanished, though I think they still have them on 747s.
Incidentally, most modern jets only have two up the front, the role of Flight Engineer (often the most sensible practical guy on board) has all but vanished, though I think they still have them on 747s.
I would say that is the clincher Just Checking
we will bin the ejector seat idea
we will bin the ejector seat idea
AFAIK a lot of the strength of a modern plane is actually in the skin so any solution that involved breaking the skin a lot (like taking the entire top off) would be pretty dangerous.
It would be nice to have the option of a parachute I suppose. Maybe ryanair could sell them as an an inflight option.
It would be nice to have the option of a parachute I suppose. Maybe ryanair could sell them as an an inflight option.
Just Checking 29 Mar 15 22:23
AFAIK a lot of the strength of a modern plane is actually in the skin so any solution that involved breaking the skin a lot (like taking the entire top off) would be pretty dangerous.
It would be nice to have the option of a parachute I suppose. Maybe ryanair could sell them as an an inflight option
Ryanair do have a parachute option its £125, sadly the chute is too big for overhead compartments so has to go in the hold
AFAIK a lot of the strength of a modern plane is actually in the skin so any solution that involved breaking the skin a lot (like taking the entire top off) would be pretty dangerous.
It would be nice to have the option of a parachute I suppose. Maybe ryanair could sell them as an an inflight option
Ryanair do have a parachute option its £125, sadly the chute is too big for overhead compartments so has to go in the hold
Be interesting to see what meds he was on. Benzos are extremely powerful, and withdrawal from benzos is from all reports, hell on Earth - far, far worse than opiate withdrawal. A clinically depressed pilot dealing with a break up, bullied at work and suffering benzo withdrawal or psychosis is some cocktail for disaster.
RIP to the victims, what a horrendous ending to their lives.
RIP to the victims, what a horrendous ending to their lives.
unless its already on here, we learned today that he had been suicidal, officially, diagnosed etc, but alarm bells were not rung as 'he had not seemed theatening to others - only himself'. Thats official too. heard it read out. FFS !! thats the flimsiest of fig-leaves.
he was totally friut-bat : and still no-one medical said anything
Sounds a reasonable hypothesis Rhino
It was the bullying at work that concerned me, that was mentioned at the beginning,
he did not just commit suicide...he has exacted revenge here perhaps?
I have him mad and bad at the moment, but who knows he may always have done this
This idea of sealing the cockpit off from the rest of the plane needs looking at, although I know it is a difficult problem
It was the bullying at work that concerned me, that was mentioned at the beginning,
he did not just commit suicide...he has exacted revenge here perhaps?
I have him mad and bad at the moment, but who knows he may always have done this
This idea of sealing the cockpit off from the rest of the plane needs looking at, although I know it is a difficult problem
Easiest solution would be to have a modern version of a bedpan in the cockpit.
Most of these flights are only a couple of hours anyway.
Pilots can then have a jimmy riddle at their convenience.
Having a tom tit would, of course, be frowned upon.
Most of these flights are only a couple of hours anyway.
Pilots can then have a jimmy riddle at their convenience.
Having a tom tit would, of course, be frowned upon.
A Dutch pilot made a chilling warning of the dangers of being locked out of the cockpit just weeks before the Germanwings cash, saying `I seriously wonder who`s sitting next to me`..
`I hope I never find myself in the situation where I go to the toilet and return to find a cockpit door that won`t open`
Jan Cocheret a Boeing 777 pilot wrote these words in a specialist flight magazine less than two months before the crash.
He said the current system made him paranoid `I seriously sometimes wonder who`s sitting next to me in the cockpit. How can I be sure that I can trust him?`
`I hope I never find myself in the situation where I go to the toilet and return to find a cockpit door that won`t open`
Jan Cocheret a Boeing 777 pilot wrote these words in a specialist flight magazine less than two months before the crash.
He said the current system made him paranoid `I seriously sometimes wonder who`s sitting next to me in the cockpit. How can I be sure that I can trust him?`
A pity it was not heeded lfc1971
It has happened before and, under the present system, could happen again
This may well have been a tragedy waiting to happen
It is something that needs to be corrected
It has happened before and, under the present system, could happen again
This may well have been a tragedy waiting to happen
It is something that needs to be corrected
It is a frightening situation.
I wouldn't fly until I knew this problem was addressed.
Not just the suicidal threat but the threat of of a someone who supports the likes of ISIS taking similar action.
Much more needs to be done to monitor the pilots suitability.
I wouldn't fly until I knew this problem was addressed.
Not just the suicidal threat but the threat of of a someone who supports the likes of ISIS taking similar action.
Much more needs to be done to monitor the pilots suitability.
Apparently if you've mental illness they won't give you a license for a shotgun, but you're allowed to fly a plane with 600 people on it.
Join .. the .. dots there for me someone?
Join .. the .. dots there for me someone?
most of us have mental illness ,.but a lot of us keep it under wraps
Apparently if you've mental illness they won't give you a license for a shotgun, but you're allowed to fly a plane with 600 people on it.
Join .. the .. dots there for me someone?
there's a fairly simple workaround for this one.
simply make it mandatory for pilots to carry a shotgun.
Join .. the .. dots there for me someone?
there's a fairly simple workaround for this one.
simply make it mandatory for pilots to carry a shotgun.
there's a fairly simple workaround for this one.
simply make it mandatory for pilots to carry a shotgun.
that's fine Polybot unless it the penetrates plane's fuselage, don't think that would improve things
I think one of the problems is sealing off the cockpit from the rest of the plane to prevent any more 9/11's
What happens when somebody needs to get into the cockpit?
If the pilot/pilots have gone mad or are incapacitated in any other way, this is not good news for passengers
A plane can fly on auto, but I don't think it can land on auto?, and it has to come down at sometime!
simply make it mandatory for pilots to carry a shotgun.
that's fine Polybot unless it the penetrates plane's fuselage, don't think that would improve things
I think one of the problems is sealing off the cockpit from the rest of the plane to prevent any more 9/11's
What happens when somebody needs to get into the cockpit?
If the pilot/pilots have gone mad or are incapacitated in any other way, this is not good news for passengers
A plane can fly on auto, but I don't think it can land on auto?, and it has to come down at sometime!
For the moment, I would suggest chemical toilets in cockpits
and in NO circumstances can one person ever be left alone in cockpits
and in NO circumstances can one person ever be left alone in cockpits
Whatever solution you think of an immediate problem springs to mind.
They had a system called Autoland back in the days of the Trident! It should be an absolute doddle now to remotely control any aircraft.
I agree akabula, but this is what people are paid to solve, as human beings we are supposed to be clever
My interim solution sounds an easy one anyway
sounds a good idea Naydam
My interim solution sounds an easy one anyway
sounds a good idea Naydam
The problem with that naydam is that being remotely controlled the system can be hacked.
the bad news(maybe good?), some usa airlines have been allowing guns to be carried as standard equipment for pilots since 9/11 on internal flights
I can't see a dashing young pilot chappie wanting to have to watch his dishy col-pilot as she curls out a stinky one! 
Well, most of 'em, anyway.
Well, most of 'em, anyway.
The cockpit should never be isolated from the cabin, in fact it may be better if there was no door.
It's like an illness. Prevention is better than the cure.
We will never totally eradicate incidents like this or where there is a deliberate act for political means.
But more thorough monitoring of pilots and acting quickly could cut down incidents.
We will never totally eradicate incidents like this or where there is a deliberate act for political means.
But more thorough monitoring of pilots and acting quickly could cut down incidents.
The door is quite handy though, in rough weather or if a problem causes a steep descent. It keeps all the 'dolly-trolleys' and passengers where they belong...OUT of the cockpit.
passengers could be secured to their seats for the duration of the flight.
they would have to be commodes
lfc1971
I think it is better the pilots put up with the smell, a toilet in the cockpit, better smelly than dead
There needs to be a different solution for everythig that can reasonably go wrong I feel
But if this happens again, I would regard it as pure negligence
and nobody know when someone may crack, 2 minimum at all times
lfc1971I think it is better the pilots put up with the smell, a toilet in the cockpit, better smelly than dead
There needs to be a different solution for everythig that can reasonably go wrong I feel
But if this happens again, I would regard it as pure negligence
and nobody know when someone may crack, 2 minimum at all times
The problem arose because of the fear of passengers gaining access to the flightdeck....all passengers should be secured to their seats and the toilet problem can be solved, one person at a time could have their seat belt released and escorted to the toilet.
they would remain handcuffed even when going to the toilet..and may require the assistance of cabin crew...female
but seriously I think that securing passengers to their seats by means of a locked seatbelt, and handcuffing passengers going to the toilet is something the CAA/FAA should consider.
very good for the pilots wellbeing also, quite sure no aircraft would be crashed under such circumstances.
Regarding the need for pilots to use the toilet. What did ( say) crews of bombers do during WW2 ?
I was on a flight a few years ago when a passenger had a parachute on.
Not sure what he thought would happen if there was an emergency?
Even if there was some way of opening the door to let him out, did he really think that the
other passengers wouldnt be surrounding him trying to rip it off his back.
Not sure what he thought would happen if there was an emergency?
Even if there was some way of opening the door to let him out, did he really think that the
other passengers wouldnt be surrounding him trying to rip it off his back.
Really ? Surely wouldn't have been allowed. Would look suspiciously like a backpack I.e terrorist bomb threat.
If a pilot/co pilot wants to down a plane, there is very little that can stop them.
Replacements in the cockpit for toilet breaks would be a waste of time. The suicide pilot has the element of surprise on their side, and can choose the time to strike.
The door must be reinforced to keep out would be terrorists. Airlines must have more stringent health checks on their pilots, but that still wouldnt guarantee a nutjob didnt con his way through it.
Replacements in the cockpit for toilet breaks would be a waste of time. The suicide pilot has the element of surprise on their side, and can choose the time to strike.
The door must be reinforced to keep out would be terrorists. Airlines must have more stringent health checks on their pilots, but that still wouldnt guarantee a nutjob didnt con his way through it.
I'd have thought moving the lockable door back a few feet, installing a small toilet cubicle in the space and having a door into the c-pit that you can't lock would do for all but the most determined of suicidal pilots. In a spinning dive the pilot in the toilet is unlikely to be able to get out though due to centrifugal forces.
Facts, my Lancaster book has a schematic that shows an Elsan toilet just forward of where the rear gunner sits, but mostly they would have used milk bottles. Though the plane had autopilot I doubt the pilot would ever have left the seat other than to bail out, perhaps if he'd taught the flight engineer how to hold the plane steady and level - it's a long and difficult way to and back from the Elsan and all their lives would be at stake for a few minutes. On fighters they had tubes and a funnel for the purpose.
Facts, my Lancaster book has a schematic that shows an Elsan toilet just forward of where the rear gunner sits, but mostly they would have used milk bottles. Though the plane had autopilot I doubt the pilot would ever have left the seat other than to bail out, perhaps if he'd taught the flight engineer how to hold the plane steady and level - it's a long and difficult way to and back from the Elsan and all their lives would be at stake for a few minutes. On fighters they had tubes and a funnel for the purpose.
Having a toilet in the cockpit would certainly deter some terrorists from crashing a 'plane.
It's very insulting to the prophet to turn up in Paradise covered in sh1t and piss!
It's very insulting to the prophet to turn up in Paradise covered in sh1t and piss!
anyone know the number of times a 'mentally ill' pilot has taken his plane down with him in the history of commercial flying (over a century now)?
there have been 3 or 4 in recent years that they are pretty sure were pilot suicide, but go back over 30 years the recorders were not as advanced or even installed on all aircraft so they often wouldn't know
By pilots in control of whole flight
Crash date
Murderer
Commercial
Flight
Fatalities
Theories
Aircraft
Refs
September 26, 1976
Pilot
General aviation
Aeroflot
12
(pilot, 11 on the ground)
The pilot flew the aircraft from Novosibirsk-Severny Airport and crashed the aircraft into an apartment complex where his ex-wife lived. His ex-wife was not killed in the crash.
January 5, 1977
Pilot
General aviation
Connellan air disaster
5
(pilot, 4 on the ground)
A disgruntled former employee of Connellan Airways (Connair) flew a Beechcraft Baron into the Connair complex at the Alice Springs Airport, Northern Territory, Australia
August 22, 1979
Pilot
General aviation
Stolen aircraft
4
(pilot, 3 on the ground)
A 23-year-old aircraft mechanic working at Bogota El Dorado Airport stole a Hawker-Siddeley HS-748 and crashed it into a Bogota suburb.
February 9, 1982
Pilot
Commercial flight
Japan Airlines Flight 350
24
Pilot engaged number 2 and 3 engines' thrust-reversers in flight. The first officer and flight engineer were able to partially regain control.
September 15, 1982
Pilot
General aviation
Bankstown Airport incident
1
The pilot of a light aircraft committed suicide by deliberately crashing into airport in the City of Bankstown, New South Wales, Australia
July 13, 1994
Pilot
Military
Stolen aircraft
1
A Russian air force engineer stole the airplane at Kubinka air base outside of Moscow. He circled the aircraft until it ran out of fuel and crashed.
August 21, 1994
Pilot
Commercial flight
Royal Air Maroc Flight 630
44
Crashed intentionally by pilot (disputed by flight union)
December 19, 1997
Pilot
Commercial flight
SilkAir Flight 185
104
Crashed intentionally by pilot (disputed by Indonesian government)
October 11, 1999
Pilot
Stolen commercial aircraft
1999 Air Botswana incident
1
Pilot commandeered and then crashed an Air Botswana aircraft into a group of aircraft at Sir Seretse Khama International Airport in Gaborone, Botswana
October 31, 1999
First officer
Commercial flight
EgyptAir Flight 990
217
After the captain left the cockpit, first officer crashed aircraft into ocean while repeatedly saying "I rely on God" in Arabic[22] (U.S. National Transportation Safety Board); mechanical failure (Egyptian air agency
January 5, 2002
Pilot
General aviation
2002 Tampa airplane crash
1
(pilot, damaged an office)
Crashed into Bank of America Plaza. Credited and praised Osama bin Laden for September 11, 2001 attacks in suicide note.
April 18, 2002
Pilot
General aviation
2002 Pirelli Tower airplane crash
3
(pilot, 2 inside the building)
The aircraft crashed in the tower in Milan. Suicide is a possibility.
February 18, 2010
Pilot
General aviation
2010 Austin suicide attack
2
Andrew Joseph Stack III deliberately crashed his single-engine Piper Dakota light aircraft into Building I of the Echelon office complex in Austin, Texas, United States.
November 29, 2013
Pilot
Commercial flight
LAM Mozambique Airlines Flight 470
33
The pilot intentionally crashed jet; the co-pilot was locked out of the cockpit, according to the voice recorder.
March 8, 2014
Commercial flight
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370
239
Pilot suicide is a possibility (wreckage and black boxes not yet found)
March 24, 2015
Co-pilot
Commercial flight
Germanwings Flight 9525
150
The co-pilot locked the captain out of cockpit before deliberately crashing the plane into a mountain near Prads-Haute-Bléone, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, France.
Crash date
Murderer
Commercial
Flight
Fatalities
Theories
Aircraft
Refs
September 26, 1976
Pilot
General aviation
Aeroflot
12
(pilot, 11 on the ground)
The pilot flew the aircraft from Novosibirsk-Severny Airport and crashed the aircraft into an apartment complex where his ex-wife lived. His ex-wife was not killed in the crash.
January 5, 1977
Pilot
General aviation
Connellan air disaster
5
(pilot, 4 on the ground)
A disgruntled former employee of Connellan Airways (Connair) flew a Beechcraft Baron into the Connair complex at the Alice Springs Airport, Northern Territory, Australia
August 22, 1979
Pilot
General aviation
Stolen aircraft
4
(pilot, 3 on the ground)
A 23-year-old aircraft mechanic working at Bogota El Dorado Airport stole a Hawker-Siddeley HS-748 and crashed it into a Bogota suburb.
February 9, 1982
Pilot
Commercial flight
Japan Airlines Flight 350
24
Pilot engaged number 2 and 3 engines' thrust-reversers in flight. The first officer and flight engineer were able to partially regain control.
September 15, 1982
Pilot
General aviation
Bankstown Airport incident
1
The pilot of a light aircraft committed suicide by deliberately crashing into airport in the City of Bankstown, New South Wales, Australia
July 13, 1994
Pilot
Military
Stolen aircraft
1
A Russian air force engineer stole the airplane at Kubinka air base outside of Moscow. He circled the aircraft until it ran out of fuel and crashed.
August 21, 1994
Pilot
Commercial flight
Royal Air Maroc Flight 630
44
Crashed intentionally by pilot (disputed by flight union)
December 19, 1997
Pilot
Commercial flight
SilkAir Flight 185
104
Crashed intentionally by pilot (disputed by Indonesian government)
October 11, 1999
Pilot
Stolen commercial aircraft
1999 Air Botswana incident
1
Pilot commandeered and then crashed an Air Botswana aircraft into a group of aircraft at Sir Seretse Khama International Airport in Gaborone, Botswana
October 31, 1999
First officer
Commercial flight
EgyptAir Flight 990
217
After the captain left the cockpit, first officer crashed aircraft into ocean while repeatedly saying "I rely on God" in Arabic[22] (U.S. National Transportation Safety Board); mechanical failure (Egyptian air agency
January 5, 2002
Pilot
General aviation
2002 Tampa airplane crash
1
(pilot, damaged an office)
Crashed into Bank of America Plaza. Credited and praised Osama bin Laden for September 11, 2001 attacks in suicide note.
April 18, 2002
Pilot
General aviation
2002 Pirelli Tower airplane crash
3
(pilot, 2 inside the building)
The aircraft crashed in the tower in Milan. Suicide is a possibility.
February 18, 2010
Pilot
General aviation
2010 Austin suicide attack
2
Andrew Joseph Stack III deliberately crashed his single-engine Piper Dakota light aircraft into Building I of the Echelon office complex in Austin, Texas, United States.
November 29, 2013
Pilot
Commercial flight
LAM Mozambique Airlines Flight 470
33
The pilot intentionally crashed jet; the co-pilot was locked out of the cockpit, according to the voice recorder.
March 8, 2014
Commercial flight
Malaysia Airlines Flight 370
239
Pilot suicide is a possibility (wreckage and black boxes not yet found)
March 24, 2015
Co-pilot
Commercial flight
Germanwings Flight 9525
150
The co-pilot locked the captain out of cockpit before deliberately crashing the plane into a mountain near Prads-Haute-Bléone, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, France.
depression,mental illness bullshit blown out the water
KILLER co-pilot Andreas Lubitz trawled the web for suicide methods, a search of his computer has revealed.
The 27-year-old also researched aircraft cockpit security in the months leading up to last week’s Germanwings crash in which 150 people were killed.
It comes as search teams uncovered the second black box from debris
KILLER co-pilot Andreas Lubitz trawled the web for suicide methods, a search of his computer has revealed.
The 27-year-old also researched aircraft cockpit security in the months leading up to last week’s Germanwings crash in which 150 people were killed.
It comes as search teams uncovered the second black box from debris
The c4 program talked about the various incidents of things like this happening last night, will be on 4od.
In other news, we've this nonsense:
"depression,mental illness bullshit blown out the water
KILLER co-pilot Andreas Lubitz trawled the web for suicide methods"
In what way does a person searching for suicide methods imply that them being depressed or having a mental illness is "bullshit"? That's about as ****ing stupid as saying.
"He likes cars bullshit blown out the water
Car liker Jeremy Clarkson trawled the web for Cars".
Killer and mentally ill aren't exclusive, in fact they are surely often related.
In other news, we've this nonsense:
"depression,mental illness bullshit blown out the water
KILLER co-pilot Andreas Lubitz trawled the web for suicide methods"
In what way does a person searching for suicide methods imply that them being depressed or having a mental illness is "bullshit"? That's about as ****ing stupid as saying.
"He likes cars bullshit blown out the water
Car liker Jeremy Clarkson trawled the web for Cars".
Killer and mentally ill aren't exclusive, in fact they are surely often related.
the passenger toilets should all be shared (two toilets, one room), this would stop any suspicious monkey business going on.
the pilots could both go and use these, giving the stewardesses a go at flying the plane. those girls will never learn if they don't get a chance to practice.
the pilots could both go and use these, giving the stewardesses a go at flying the plane. those girls will never learn if they don't get a chance to practice.
The Germanwings co-pilot suspected of deliberately crashing a plane in the French Alps in March, killing all 150 people on board, practiced a descent on the previous flight.
Prosecutors believe 27-year-old German co-pilot Andreas Lubitz locked the captain out of the cockpit and veered the plane into an early descent on a flight from Barcelona to Duesseldorf on March 24.
German newspaper Bild cited sources close to France's BEA crash investigation agency, said an interim report that BEA was planning to publish on Wednesday would say that Lubitz had practiced reducing flight altitude on the outbound flight from Duesseldorf to Barcelona the same day as the crash.
Bild cited the sources as saying the BEA report would talk about a "controlled descent that lasted for minutes and for which there was no aeronautical justification".
Lubitz had suffered from severe depression in the past and a computer found in his home showed he had used the Internet to research ways of committing suicide in the days leading up to the crash. Prosecutors also found torn-up sick notes at his home showing he should not have flown on the day of the flight.
Prosecutors believe 27-year-old German co-pilot Andreas Lubitz locked the captain out of the cockpit and veered the plane into an early descent on a flight from Barcelona to Duesseldorf on March 24.
German newspaper Bild cited sources close to France's BEA crash investigation agency, said an interim report that BEA was planning to publish on Wednesday would say that Lubitz had practiced reducing flight altitude on the outbound flight from Duesseldorf to Barcelona the same day as the crash.
Bild cited the sources as saying the BEA report would talk about a "controlled descent that lasted for minutes and for which there was no aeronautical justification".
Lubitz had suffered from severe depression in the past and a computer found in his home showed he had used the Internet to research ways of committing suicide in the days leading up to the crash. Prosecutors also found torn-up sick notes at his home showing he should not have flown on the day of the flight.
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