any POKER players on here. ?? i thought the court case with phil ivey...

I thought his court case was against a high stakes Casino that refused to pay him after beating them out of Millions playing Craps (Dice) not cards

ahh it was Baccarat yes .. just read the review of the case & maybe he was an edge player .. I was under the impression he was just being robbed by the casino as he is a crazy high stakes gambler (away from poker) but i guess a guy like him will always want to find an edge to beat the system with ...

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/08/top-poker-player-phil-ivey-loses-court-battle-7-million-winnings

its a london casino i think, i was just curious to find out how he was supposed to be recognising the cards ?? were they tampered with in any

way ?? i suppose all will be revealed when the case ends.

Yes Crockfords

Quite smart of them to be wise to all this .. personally i'd trust Phil (just) but the Asain guy that supposedly introduced him to 'edge counting' sounds errmm Dodgy


Did you watch the PCA High Roller last night .. that's how them guys roll

thanks for the link moonbeam, as i said iam not a player myself, just fascinated to see who won the case.

ive not watched much poker lately, i did enjoy watching the world series games and even remember channel 4 showing games....many years ago.

gonna check out the comp you were on about now, i see its put up on you-tube.

In his ruling, the judge said that the case turned on whether there was cheating: “If Mr Ivey cheated, he is not entitled to recover his winnings. If he did not, he is.

“What Mr Ivey and Ms Sun did was to persuade the croupier to turn some of the cards in the dealing shoe to permit them to know that they were or were very likely to be sevens, eights or nines, and in circumstances where she did not realise she had done so – and, if she had, would have immediately stopped play.

“The fact that Mr Ivey was genuinely convinced that he did not cheat and that the practice commanded considerable support from others was not determinative of the question of whether it amounted to cheating.

“Mr Ivey had gained himself an advantage and did so by using a croupier as his innocent agent or tool.

“It was not simply taking advantage of error on her part or an anomaly practised by the casino, for which he was not responsible.

“He was doing it in circumstances where he knew that she and her superiors did not know the consequences of what she had done at his instigation.

The judge concluded: “This is, in my view, cheating for the purpose of civil law.”

Dismissing the case, with costs, he said it was immaterial that the casino could have protected itself by simple measures.





I think he just outsmarted an inexperienced croupier & they didn't like it , just shows how ultra sharp Phil is to gain any kind of an edge though !

The PCA is finished now but last nights episode was the last but one , check out the Macau guys though , they're just ruthless , Ronald Lo is the one to watch , they take Negranu & Ivey out like donks

Macau is where all the High Rollers are playing , but easy picking , doesn't look that way to me , Durrrrrr is suposedly now broke , lol

PokerStars.com EPT London

Today on Channel 4 from 12:05am to 1:00am

Channel 4


A seat at the PokerStars.com EPT Super High Roller final table is in sight for those remaining, and east meets west as the high-stakes men from Macau take on the pros in Monaco. Sixteen players are left, and eight will go home with nothing. Who will survive the biggest money bubble of the season?  SUB

That's the guy yes King

It's not really so advanced but was sneaky & he knew what he was doing , just remember how much they're playing for & made Negreanu look a right clown

The best was the way he picked off the next guy with 78 , rolled his eyes shook his head & just shippided it ...allin .. guy really cracked me up but was a very good player .. wouldn't fancy playing him & his buddies at cash would you

Negreanu shipped 10k -400k ... 40 Bigs lolol

He was just dying for a re-raise with his AK

He played the 1010 well also imo just flat calling , just unlucky Quoss had K10

then the 78 .. he played well with strong bets you'd just think he's messing half the time

haven't seen the next episode yet .. is it up on youtube

yep it's a different mindset playing pro's for such high stakes but that's exactly what he was doing

I thought the next episode might be leaked already but last nights is up on http://www.pokertube.com/  for anybody wanting to watch , plus a small Ivey interview

Guys like Durrrrr with 3 bet the entire table with 24 out of position & still take down a huge risky pot

*will*

I like Negreanu but still funny to see him made such a fool of , can't play like that & expect to get away with it so easily all the time , He knew his mistake as soon as he'd made it though !

Half of his game is just trash talk

Sorry forget pokertube as you have to register

Here's the link

http://www.pokerstars.tv/channels/2014/10/ept-10-monaco---super-high-roller-episode-2.shtml

I guess he can afford to though , difference is he's a poker player whereas Ivey is a Gambler

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http://www.ibtimes.com/what-edge-sorting-phil-ivey-sued-borgata-casino-allegedly-cheated-win-96-million-baccarat-1571442

The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa in Atlantic City, N.J., believes the professional card player Phil Ivey used a technique called “edge sorting” to bilk the establishment out of millions of dollars.

In a federal lawsuit filed on Tuesday, the Borgata accuses Ivey and an unnamed accomplice of manipulating a flaw in a certain type of playing card to identify valuable cards in baccarat, the Associated Press reported. According to the lawsuit, Ivey used the method, known as “edge sorting,” to earn $9.6 million during four visits to the casino in 2012.

Gamblers who utilize “edge sorting” do so by observing subtle flaws in the way sets of playing cards -- in this case, cards manufactured by Kansas City-based Gemaco Inc. -- are cut during production. The cards are supposed to be cut so that the pattern on the back is identical, regardless of which way the card faces. The cards used during Ivey’s trips to the Borgata allegedly contained a defect that allows observant players to distinguish baccarat’s “good” cards -- 6, 7, 8 and 9 -- from less valuable cards.

Ivey's lawyer declined on Friday to comment on the lawsuit, the AP said, and Gemaco didn't respond to a request for comment from the news wire service.

The Borgata’s lawsuit outlines the manner in which it claims that Ivey and his companion used “edge sorting” to win money, in direct violation of the casino’s rules. Ivey allegedly instructed the dealer to turn cards in a certain way based on whether or not they were valuable, the AP reported.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQVfVtpSYp4

6% edge, massive.

They were using badly cut cards. Can see why he was willing to go to court over it. Very debatable if it was "cheating" imo

In simple terms the cards used were "marked"...my argument would be that the Casino is responsible for the quality of equipment it chooses to use..Ivy and his "friend" certainly exploited the situation.

what suprises me most about the Crockfords incident is as follows:

1) they granted Ivey's request to turn selected cards once they had been identified by the players as key cards.
2) they granted Ivey's request to change the deck regularly (until the players found one that was asymmetrical).
3) the casino had no turn in the shuffle (from my understanding a basic counterfoil to the plan).

I know it's not unusual for a new deck to be requested but surely they were suspicious when 1+2 were combined so regularly during a session.

Presumably at some stage someone realised something was up. Were they tipped off or did the casino discover it themselves?

oh and more thing they can do is use a closed shoe so the players can't see the edges of the cards. Seems nuts in todays age that anyone was able to exploit this.

I agree it's their own fault DWE

They didn't pay him initially & told him they'd wire him his winnings , prob standard for that kind of amount but I guess they may of thought something was up , it was all on camera but I'm not sure that'd of been much use at all

the manufacturers of the cards supplied cards that were imperfect..Crockfords used them
Ivy noticed the flaw in the cards and exploited it to the tune of 7million..his play was over two days and at the end of day one he asked for the shoe and cards to be kept and used the next day..the casino complied with his request..a similar case happened years ago in Vegas..same outcome.player did not get paid.

exactly, it wasn't like it wasn't out there.

so when someone keep changing a deck until they find one they like, and keeps asking to turn the cards you'd think they might smell a rat.

probably one of these old boys club, scouts honour type private gambling dens for the serial rich. Much like Lord Lucan used to attend.

It was in a private room , just Ivey , his mate & 2 croupiers (I think)

Crockfords is owned by Genting. They are the majority shareholder in Rank Group. Mecca Bingo, Grosvenor and formerly Blue Square. Not so much of a surprise they dodged paying out!

makes you wonder how many other decks of cards are badly cut ?

i had a deck and you could tell the suit by the way the corners were cut

card suppliers that is/was used by genting swamped by increase in demand for product from Macau.

Just noticed that my post about Ivey and television cash games has been pulled.  How annoying.

fair play pokey...full of poo

Interesting link worth reading:

http://apheat.net/2012/08/18/edge-sorting-in-baccarat/