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Have been watching things develop with increasing anxiety. There's a broad - and increasing - streak of racism through the Nationalist campaign. They try to keep it hidden but it seeps through the seams. Their bully-boys are counter-productive. When in the privacy of the polling booth most will stick it up them. The result wont be close. If nothing else the women will shun them for the wife-beating drunken misogynists that they are. No, only kidding, - apart from the bit about most women voting no.
Rejection is hard to handle. What do you think the English (I should say rUK, as in rest of UK) will do after a yes vote? Any financial institution in Scotland will have to move south because 90% of their business will be here and if they don't move south accounts will be closed en masse until they do. We will take our revenge. Ship building will come back - as soon as they can float hulls will come south for outfitting. You've seen the SNP&green agendas - essentially no Scottish defence forces. What are you left with? Salmon and whiskey. Lidl does great Norwegian salmon (nice and lean - they mustn't give them deep-fried fish food) and I saw a programme on Welsh whiskey last week - no coincidence, with a yes vote they will make a fortune. We will make a fair settlement with the Scots but any UK party who goes beyond will be wiped out.
As for the oil, my latest Petroleum Exploration Society of GB journal points out that only 9 exploration well have been drilled this year - with no great excitement. It's a very, very mature basin.
Watching the debates etc, It seem to me that the main voting block for the SNP are the benefits claimants. Vote for us and we'll give you more money for sweet fa. Tricky. You need high taxes to provide benefits but high taxes will drive away companies. So the SNP say they will encourage companies to Scotland by reducing taxes but they tell the voters they will get more money - presumably from company taxes. Tosspots.
And this austerity nonsense? There has been no austerity - this "hated" government has been spending money like a drunken sailor. We are spectacularly indebted. They've just reduced the rate at which we become more indebted. No nation has recovered from our state with out massive civil disruption. We've been thieving from future generations like amoral gangsters.
Bring it on!
Rejection is hard to handle. What do you think the English (I should say rUK, as in rest of UK) will do after a yes vote? Any financial institution in Scotland will have to move south because 90% of their business will be here and if they don't move south accounts will be closed en masse until they do. We will take our revenge. Ship building will come back - as soon as they can float hulls will come south for outfitting. You've seen the SNP&green agendas - essentially no Scottish defence forces. What are you left with? Salmon and whiskey. Lidl does great Norwegian salmon (nice and lean - they mustn't give them deep-fried fish food) and I saw a programme on Welsh whiskey last week - no coincidence, with a yes vote they will make a fortune. We will make a fair settlement with the Scots but any UK party who goes beyond will be wiped out.
As for the oil, my latest Petroleum Exploration Society of GB journal points out that only 9 exploration well have been drilled this year - with no great excitement. It's a very, very mature basin.
Watching the debates etc, It seem to me that the main voting block for the SNP are the benefits claimants. Vote for us and we'll give you more money for sweet fa. Tricky. You need high taxes to provide benefits but high taxes will drive away companies. So the SNP say they will encourage companies to Scotland by reducing taxes but they tell the voters they will get more money - presumably from company taxes. Tosspots.
And this austerity nonsense? There has been no austerity - this "hated" government has been spending money like a drunken sailor. We are spectacularly indebted. They've just reduced the rate at which we become more indebted. No nation has recovered from our state with out massive civil disruption. We've been thieving from future generations like amoral gangsters.
Bring it on!
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A lot of scaremongering on this thread, I don't think you can compare Russia to Scotland either
yes some pure bollocks coming out from the No side, they want to instil fear. control by fear
Lets be honest its bollocks all round. Salmond has lied and distorted from the start. If YES wins he is going to be seriously unpopular in afew years time when reality dawns.
Met some friends in Falkirk yesterday and we went into the town centre for a coffee and walkabout just after noon.
Both lots of campaigners had stalls in the high street, Dennis Canavan was speaking at one, but very few people seemed interested.
Neither had more than about a dozen people listening. People fed up with all the rhetoric? That seems favourite.
BTW to the young girl, 20ish, screaming like a banshee at the young lad who was handing out leaflets for the NO campaign, congratulations, you made a right ar5e out of yourself. BTW it was a lovely day.
Both lots of campaigners had stalls in the high street, Dennis Canavan was speaking at one, but very few people seemed interested.
Neither had more than about a dozen people listening. People fed up with all the rhetoric? That seems favourite.
BTW to the young girl, 20ish, screaming like a banshee at the young lad who was handing out leaflets for the NO campaign, congratulations, you made a right ar5e out of yourself. BTW it was a lovely day.
And like a dog to its vomit, I'm back. Well, I'd had a bad day - a chunky bet on Cotai Glory and one of those milestone/tombstone birthdays after which it's all downhill. I'd also polished off a bottle of spirits which one of my ex's had got from a house clearance. She said it was vintage vodka - I suspect it was methanol. So I wasn't my usual sunny self. I apologise for the vile slurs - though I'm pretty sure they were bits of old Frankie Boyle routines - isn't he a Yes-man? My original post was also censored (I can see the legal justification) - mainly the bits about what happened in Eire post-independence (genuine independence in Ireland's case) and what the Nat politicians and their business buddies would do post-separation. I'll be careful not to name names now.
Well my sight's back and I'm sober but I'm still mad about the idiots who arranged the possible destruction of my country but allowed me no say - along with 92% of my countrymen. It's ironic the chief meddler from this side of the border is called Cameron, don't you think? Profoundly anti-democratic. And don't complain you didn't get the goverment you voted for - nor did we, but that's how it works half the time. I also know the whole fiasco will cost tens of billions, partly punishment by the markets for attempting financial suicide but mostly unravelling 300 years of shared institutions. It'll cost us the most but per capita Scots will pay the biggest price. And all so unneccessary.
Well my sight's back and I'm sober but I'm still mad about the idiots who arranged the possible destruction of my country but allowed me no say - along with 92% of my countrymen. It's ironic the chief meddler from this side of the border is called Cameron, don't you think? Profoundly anti-democratic. And don't complain you didn't get the goverment you voted for - nor did we, but that's how it works half the time. I also know the whole fiasco will cost tens of billions, partly punishment by the markets for attempting financial suicide but mostly unravelling 300 years of shared institutions. It'll cost us the most but per capita Scots will pay the biggest price. And all so unneccessary.
Another thing I'm mad at is the arguments of the Yes faction. Except there are no reasoned arguments now. Their spin doctors/advisors have told them to just keep loudly repeating a set number of slogans: 'Save our NHS' (it's been under your control for years), 'We're the 14th richest nation in the world'(if you exclude your share of the national debt and include a lot of currently sub-economic oil(see subsequent post), you just might be), 'Reject the Westminster elite' (our current PM has a Scottish father, our 2 previous PMs were born in Scotland, half a dozen of the PMs in the 20thC were Scottish or had Scottish ancestry - if you vote yes WE might be able to reject the Westminster elite - you can have them back. You take Blair, we'll keep Carol Kirkwood.) Bullyboy tactics of shouting down the opposition also bring to mind Geman politics in the early 1930s (the Blueshirts?) - and are counterproductive anyway.
So the yes vote is successful. You've painted your faces blue, gone down to the border, lifted your kilts and exposed your buttocks to a few disinterested English sheep, beat up a couple of OAPs with a No poster in their window and pushed dog excrement through JK Rowling's letter box. What then? Are you suddenly better educated, more talented, dynamic and motivated, more entrepreneurial? If you aren't next Thursday, you wont be next Friday. We're all experts on here at turning our lives around - our redemptions have been staged numerous times. Giving up the booze, losing weight, improving one's mind, working harder - easy - I've done it all dozens of times. Are you going to found the new Microsoft or Google, or develop a wonder drug from heather? No, you're going to take revenge on the approximate half who voted no and then demand a state-sponsored job because you voted yes. All this talk about both sides coming together to make a united Scotland whatever the result is garbage. Grudges will be held. The SNP will attempt reward its friends and punish the No supporters regardless. Anyone with a contract with the devolved Scottish govt has known for some time that open support for the No campaign will have 'consequences'.
I'm sure any yes voters will have changed their minds reading that, bodil. Shame that we are not talking in vast numbers here in this backwater.
well if they vote yes we won't need to waste money expanding that last bit A1 heading up there.
Independence vs Separation/Divorce? It's pretty insulting to compare yourselves with black South Africans (both to the English and the Africans). The Scots were the driving force behind the Act of Union partly because you'd bankrupted yourselves with the Darien scheme but mostly because you saw an opportunity in the growing British Empire. You certainly profited from the latter - Glasgow was second only to London for industry and finance. There are many of Scottish descent in most of the former colonies (well the dominantly white ones where your excellent soldiers helped reduce the indigenous populations). Between 1885 and 1939, a third of all governor-generals were Scots. About 60% of all current Jamaican surnames are Scottish - draw you own conclusions. Now we no longer have a third of the world to exploit you want rid of us? Sob. But don't worry! Now you're enhancing you social security system and the rUK is cutting back, the Empire will be coming to you! If the Jamaican contingent repay the compliment, the phone book wont look very different! And brendanuk's quoting of the Declaration of Independence is wonderful comedy. Let's consider the category of 'all men created equal.' No native Americans, no blacks (many of the First Congress were slave owners - I suppose the Scots had that in common), no Asians, no women, no poor uneducated white men and no rich or educated white men who disagreed with them (Royalists). Classic weasel words indeed.
I see bodil has turned his light off, bit early for him to be doing that he must be feeling very emotional 
Oil. If you had done this in the mid-70s I suspect you could have become the socialist workers (or non-workers) paradise that you claim you can create now. OK, Edinburgh and Glasgow would be as ethnically diverse as London is now and the native Scots would be priced out of the housing market, but it would have worked. You claim you've got 26 billion barrels left? Look, oil companies work on pretty simple lines - if they can get 10-15% return on capital guaranteed they'll drill/develop. Doesn't matter if the country is run by Trotskyites, cannibals or dictators who boil their opponents alive. If there's a profit, they're interested. Talk about big undiscovered reserves in the North Sea is garbage. It's a very mature basin. The economic basement is well-defined and hundreds of thousands of kms of seismic have been shot. All hydrocarbon systems leak and extensive surface seepage surveys have been carried out. If there was anything profitably sizeable it would have been drilled by now. Someone mentioned the Clyde Estuary basin - far too small, the economic basement is too shallow, and it's full of Tertiary volcanics (I recall there are extinct 2 volcanoes/magma vents on Arran alone). You rarely get big oil associated with extensive igneous rocks. Still look on the bright side - you can form a National Oil Company with all your SNP experts and go wildcatting. At least it will give the rest of us scrabbling for cans of food in the ruins of the UK a good laugh.
(less barracking crags - I'm stone-cold sober)
(less barracking crags - I'm stone-cold sober)
I'm always on your side, bodil. You should know that by now.
The shale oil and gas revolution really has been a game changer - a paradigm shift (love that phrase - learnt it from a Scotswoman). But for the SNP the timing couldn't have been worse. Suddenly most of Scotland's remaining reserves are uneconomic. Fracking offshore reservoirs has been routine for a while (including in the North Sea) but only recently have they developed equipment to greatly increase pressures and thus the extent of hydrofracturing. But this is for tricky reservoir rocks - not the source rocks of conventional onshore fracking. Historically recovery factors average about 30%, ie fields described as exhausted still contain about 70% of the original oil-in-place. The next big episode in the fracking story will be hydrofracking these old fields. You may only get another 10% but that's still tens of billions of barrels. Not great news for small expensive offshore oil prospects. You can't do it with existing N Sea fields because the platforms aren't designed for it and would have to replaced anyway because they are close to the end of their safe working lives. Decommisioning costs for existing rigs will be in the high billions anyway. SNP estimates of oil income are hopelessly optimistic and completely out of their control. You've got the Middle East going up in flames and Russia's vast reserves being sanctioned - and the price is going down! Principally because the US is now self-sufficient thanks to shale oil and gas. It's why Obama has seemed pretty disinterested in ME politics, whereas Bush invaded Iraq pre-fracking.
So I look at the SNP and their fellow travellers and wonder where the talent for this thrusting, dynamic new Scotland is. Apart from a well-developed resentment/dislike of the English and a hunger for self-advancement at the expense of the majority I see nothing out of the ordinary. Could you Yes supporters give me the names of some of these exceptional individuals who are going to lead you to the promised land? I notice your most prominent/vocal supporters in the Arts have put the Atlantic between you and themselves. I listed some of the recent self-inflicted events that might make a person wary of Scottish financial talent - the massive cost overrun (10x initial estimates)for the Scottish Parliament building, the Edinburgh tram system, HBOS and RBS ('the biggest bank(rupt) in the world') but I'd forgotten an example that must be closer to the hearts of many of you. I recall watching Celtic win a European Cup in real time - cultured football from a team stuffed full of talented Scots. What happened? Now Celtic and Rangers would struggle to survive in our Championship and the best home-grown Scots remaining dream only of coming south to play in the Premier League. Not a good advertisment for Scottish management/talent, eh?
Dont get the yes vote. Presumably for a long LONG time before the England Scotland Wales nonsense, we were a single island of people, and years later were still a smaller collective island than most countries.
Getting people to forget about all the divided England/Scotland nonsense inbetween looked impossibly difficult anyway, even after 300 years of semi-reunion, but to have it undone and redivided again by a deluded fat man, twenty years after a dodgy mel gibson film? How embarrassing will that one look in the long term history of these isles.
Getting people to forget about all the divided England/Scotland nonsense inbetween looked impossibly difficult anyway, even after 300 years of semi-reunion, but to have it undone and redivided again by a deluded fat man, twenty years after a dodgy mel gibson film? How embarrassing will that one look in the long term history of these isles.
Sod it, I'll do the welfare system, NHS, financial system and whiskey tomorrow. Sobriety's no fun.
bodil...sorry mate but you have nothing to do with what the Scots choose to do on Thursday.
by the way I am fairly impressed that your typing skills are so good after consuming an entire bottle of spirits..well done sir.
Generally numbed silence - that's good. Expect the Nats have seen the truth and wisdom of my words and are now trying to find an Englishman to kiss.
sofiak - it's because it's nothing to do with me that I am so incensed (that and the Korean liquor). What a political f/u. On the other hand I can choose to not send the odd ten thousand £s Scotland's way in my lifetime if it votes Yes. Reckon there's another 10-20 million at least so inclined. In the end we will have a giant say on the outcome. Not to mention on the rUK political scene. Vengeance will be ours - if necessary. Like any divorce they say 'it's me, not you' but we know it is us. We will cut up their expensive suits, distribute their vintage wine to the neighbours, have a ton of horseshit dumped on their front lawn and super-glue all their locks.
WhiskEy - and the EU. I write whiskey because it's what we'll be switching to in case of a Yes vote. From Ireland and the US (Wales even). Oddly enough there was more Irish whiskey consumed here a few years before Irish independence than scotch. What goes around comes around. Once you're out of the EU - and you will be for at least 5 years the Spanish Foreign Minister said today - no tariff-free exports to Europe (45% exports) and no free-trade agreements with most of the rest of world. Add currency instability re pricing, less protection against counterfeit 'scotch', reduced exports to rUK, and no wonder the major distillers are looking anxious. And, as your second biggest earner next to oil (and not far from it), the Scottish government is more than likely to increase taxes on it to cover shortfalls elsewhere.
Will you get into the EU? You'll be about as welcome as a recently-arrived West African with a high temperature. In order of decreasing agitating-regional-independence-movements, Spain, Belgium, Italy and France are likely to make entry hard for you. I've even read a suggestion you'll get the Elgin Marbles as part of the divorce settlement so Greece can be obstructive. rUK could even block your entry but we wont. After all, as 'one of the richest countries in Europe', you'll be paying barrow-loads of cash to the impoverished east, unlike Ireland which received shed-loads of cash to squander. And you'll have to adopt the euro - and you've seen what that's doing to formerly-high-spending countries.
sofiak - it's because it's nothing to do with me that I am so incensed (that and the Korean liquor). What a political f/u. On the other hand I can choose to not send the odd ten thousand £s Scotland's way in my lifetime if it votes Yes. Reckon there's another 10-20 million at least so inclined. In the end we will have a giant say on the outcome. Not to mention on the rUK political scene. Vengeance will be ours - if necessary. Like any divorce they say 'it's me, not you' but we know it is us. We will cut up their expensive suits, distribute their vintage wine to the neighbours, have a ton of horseshit dumped on their front lawn and super-glue all their locks.
WhiskEy - and the EU. I write whiskey because it's what we'll be switching to in case of a Yes vote. From Ireland and the US (Wales even). Oddly enough there was more Irish whiskey consumed here a few years before Irish independence than scotch. What goes around comes around. Once you're out of the EU - and you will be for at least 5 years the Spanish Foreign Minister said today - no tariff-free exports to Europe (45% exports) and no free-trade agreements with most of the rest of world. Add currency instability re pricing, less protection against counterfeit 'scotch', reduced exports to rUK, and no wonder the major distillers are looking anxious. And, as your second biggest earner next to oil (and not far from it), the Scottish government is more than likely to increase taxes on it to cover shortfalls elsewhere.
Will you get into the EU? You'll be about as welcome as a recently-arrived West African with a high temperature. In order of decreasing agitating-regional-independence-movements, Spain, Belgium, Italy and France are likely to make entry hard for you. I've even read a suggestion you'll get the Elgin Marbles as part of the divorce settlement so Greece can be obstructive. rUK could even block your entry but we wont. After all, as 'one of the richest countries in Europe', you'll be paying barrow-loads of cash to the impoverished east, unlike Ireland which received shed-loads of cash to squander. And you'll have to adopt the euro - and you've seen what that's doing to formerly-high-spending countries.
If you keep the pound you'll have fiscal, monetary, banking and regulatory policy set by the Bank of England. So interest rates, borrowing and spending will be dictated by a London-based central bank under a near-permanent Tory government (or one heavily influenced by Nige and his loons) as Labour lose 40 or so Scottish seats. Not exactly independence, is it? You'll still have control of taxes - but be forced to increase most of them. If you use the currency but not the central bank (like Panama, El Salvador and Kosovo, for example) you'll have to increase bank reserves and reduce bank deposit-guarantees (goodbye customers!) and also build up big reserves of your own in case of financial crises, ie cut social spending. The more you think about it, the more you realise the SNP and friends haven't thought through even 5% of the implications ('trust us - it'll be alright!'). It's very likely property prices will fall (not such a bad thing - increased affordability) and interest/mortgage rates will increase (not such a good thing).
great stuff bodil 
You're certainly correct about the oil.
You're certainly correct about the oil.
Froth!
Consider the welfare state and NHS. The SNP and Scottish Labour Party are essentially socialist, right? One or the other will be in power post-separation. The reason the separatists are getting the old Labour vote is because they are promising higher benefits/pensions. Labour can't because they know for a certainty the current system is unsustainable. When pensions were introduced most recipients were dead within 5 years of retirement. Now most live for 20 years+. Current retirement ages have bankrupted the system. Nor should any benefits system allow people to choose not working (and having lots of kids as profit centres) as a way of life. Of course any decent state should provide a safety net for those temporarily out of a job, and support the old and infirm. A society that didn't provide a good education and basic healthcare for its citizens wouldn't thrive or survive. But what do you do when a large number of citizens can't be bothered to get an education and become unemployable, or smoke/drink/become obese and become a burden to the NHS?
Consider the welfare state and NHS. The SNP and Scottish Labour Party are essentially socialist, right? One or the other will be in power post-separation. The reason the separatists are getting the old Labour vote is because they are promising higher benefits/pensions. Labour can't because they know for a certainty the current system is unsustainable. When pensions were introduced most recipients were dead within 5 years of retirement. Now most live for 20 years+. Current retirement ages have bankrupted the system. Nor should any benefits system allow people to choose not working (and having lots of kids as profit centres) as a way of life. Of course any decent state should provide a safety net for those temporarily out of a job, and support the old and infirm. A society that didn't provide a good education and basic healthcare for its citizens wouldn't thrive or survive. But what do you do when a large number of citizens can't be bothered to get an education and become unemployable, or smoke/drink/become obese and become a burden to the NHS?
Likely, but don't bet on the SNP getting anywhere near the proportion of representation they have now. The SNP are a means to an end, and their popular vote this time round is more a calculated vote in response to a long Labour period in Westminster coming to an and and the Conservatives coming to power.
Clearly with independence possibly gaining 50% of the vote, I think it's safe to say that 50% of the electorate would not vote for the SNP.
I imagine that post-independence there would be a re-evaluation of political parties on both sides of the border. It seems like the Tories have been quite divisive over the past 30 years or so over Europe, and of course the growing concern of UKIP of late.
Clearly with independence possibly gaining 50% of the vote, I think it's safe to say that 50% of the electorate would not vote for the SNP.
I imagine that post-independence there would be a re-evaluation of political parties on both sides of the border. It seems like the Tories have been quite divisive over the past 30 years or so over Europe, and of course the growing concern of UKIP of late.
The NHS, like almost any other large organization (police, social services {consider the last 2 re the Rochdale scandal}, legal system, education establishment, many charities etc), is mostly run for the benefit of the people staffing it, not the customers. If the public do benefit, that's a pleasing side effect, but it's not the principal aim. A few examples. Labour renegotiated the the GPs' contracts, resulting in a doubling of salaries to around £100k and elimination of all evening and weekend callouts. Now out-of-hours work is done by expensive locums (eg German Nigerians with a poor grasp of English and little grasp of modern medicine) or overloaded A&E departments, already full of violent or comatose drunks (including south of the border). Nice one. Labour truly did pour a lot of money into the NHS but about 80% went on salaries, not towards improving healthcare. Nurses now have to have degrees and are now too qualified to actually look after sick/smelly/whining/demented patients who are sometimes left to die of thirst/hunger in their own excrement. 40% of people who work in the NHS would not recommend treatment in their own places of work. The NHS is a gaping money-pit - you can never fill it. It needs reforming - maybe more senior doctors/matrons running things instead of vastly overpaid managers and their underlings? Certainly there are many things that can be done nation-wide to reduce costs - go to the cheapest adequate supplier (some trusts pay 3-4x more than others for the same product). The patients also need to take better care of themselves. Most baby-boomers in the UK are going to take out far more money from the pension/healthcare system than they ever contributed (5-10x&+?). Unsustainable with an ageing population. And Scotland has more of an ageing population than rUK.
Good god, erse. That's the first non-scatological post I've seen from you. Are you unwell? Are you Scottish?
Good god, erse. That's the first non-scatological post I've seen from you. Are you unwell? Are you Scottish?
i always find that the smart arses will go for the simplest points to score.
still, if we're standing by our posts as a reference of character... you have made some comments in poor taste.
still, if we're standing by our posts as a reference of character... you have made some comments in poor taste.
Now out-of-hours work is done by expensive locums (eg German Nigerians with a poor grasp of English and little grasp of modern medicine)
Like the one that killed a man in Cambridgeshire with an overdose a couple of years ago.
Like the one that killed a man in Cambridgeshire with an overdose a couple of years ago.
The national debt is roughly £1.5 trillion, about £25,000/person. We pay about £40 billion interest on this pa. Unfortunately if you add in unfunded public sector pensions, PFI payments (what a crock of **** that turned out to be) and a few other bits, it's nearer £4 billion+, or £65-70,000 pp. To keep ourselves in the manner we think we deserve we've mortgaged the future. The under-30s and a couple more generations will be paying our debts. If the proposed SNP benefits are introduced the as-yet unborn and their unborn children will inherit the debt. This is theft from the future on a massive scale.
All this rubbish about the wicked Tories imposing massive austerity is garbage. Since this government was elected (strictly it wasn't elected by anyone) they have increased the national debt by £600 billion. They have slowed the rate of increase of the deficit but we are still borrowing £2 billion a week ('because we're worth it.'). We can do (at least) 3 things. We could live within our means, cut the welfare state and pay back a chunk of our debts. That would be the act of a decent moral society. Any political party that suggests that faces oblivion. Bribes to the electorate are easily given but nearly impossible to claw back. We could print money to inflate part of our debt away by degrading the currency. This we have done by 20-25% but have reached the acceptable limit (we need to stay among the least worst options). Finally we could renege on the debt (as Alex S has suggested the new Scotland might). This would be in the style of Argentina. Nobody would lend us money expect at ruinous rates (hey, that just did in Phones4U).
OK, the Korean spirit has kicked in and I'm not sure where I am or why. Why anything? I do recall the last time I drank it I woke up in the afternoon to find I had executed my Uncle and sent his immediate family to 'correctional' camps. Wrong Korea. But due to poor sales it had been reduced in price by 50% - who could resist? I'll tie up the loose ends tomorrow. Wouldn't want the voters to not have the facts.
Am I confusing erse2 with erse? That would account for my surprise. Are you familiar with your doppelganger?
All this rubbish about the wicked Tories imposing massive austerity is garbage. Since this government was elected (strictly it wasn't elected by anyone) they have increased the national debt by £600 billion. They have slowed the rate of increase of the deficit but we are still borrowing £2 billion a week ('because we're worth it.'). We can do (at least) 3 things. We could live within our means, cut the welfare state and pay back a chunk of our debts. That would be the act of a decent moral society. Any political party that suggests that faces oblivion. Bribes to the electorate are easily given but nearly impossible to claw back. We could print money to inflate part of our debt away by degrading the currency. This we have done by 20-25% but have reached the acceptable limit (we need to stay among the least worst options). Finally we could renege on the debt (as Alex S has suggested the new Scotland might). This would be in the style of Argentina. Nobody would lend us money expect at ruinous rates (hey, that just did in Phones4U).
OK, the Korean spirit has kicked in and I'm not sure where I am or why. Why anything? I do recall the last time I drank it I woke up in the afternoon to find I had executed my Uncle and sent his immediate family to 'correctional' camps. Wrong Korea. But due to poor sales it had been reduced in price by 50% - who could resist? I'll tie up the loose ends tomorrow. Wouldn't want the voters to not have the facts.
Am I confusing erse2 with erse? That would account for my surprise. Are you familiar with your doppelganger?
Your extended post is all well and good, but you're talking about a government that is 90% elected by people not living in Scotland, and regardless of whether it's a Labour government voted in partly by Scottish votes, it's voted in on the knowledge of a UK wide vote. My constituency in Scotland tends to suffer from 'tactical voting' to vote in the Liberal Democrats, rather than a Conservative.
You're also comparing it to SNP policy which is merely the one manifesto that would be available to an independent Scotland.
The election is about choosing independence, not about bringing the SNP into power. There's not really much to say about the current national debt in the scope of Scotland and independence. The only political party willing to entertain the yes vote and provide a manifesto has done, and offered to pay a 'fair' share of the debt.
The other parties in Scotland have said nothing on how they would choose to negotiate with a rUK government on these issues.
You're also comparing it to SNP policy which is merely the one manifesto that would be available to an independent Scotland.
The election is about choosing independence, not about bringing the SNP into power. There's not really much to say about the current national debt in the scope of Scotland and independence. The only political party willing to entertain the yes vote and provide a manifesto has done, and offered to pay a 'fair' share of the debt.
The other parties in Scotland have said nothing on how they would choose to negotiate with a rUK government on these issues.
My apologies erse2 - I did confuse you with erse. It was like finding your dog discussing the finer points of quantum theory.
I wouldn't advise you to search out erse posts.
I wouldn't advise you to search out erse posts.
Bodil - throughout your ravings, you mention "we".........this is the point of the whole bloody referendum .. Who is "we" and who are "they"......the point is they (the Scots) , don't want to be "we" (the British).
Consider, and revert.
Consider, and revert.
nevermind. carry on with your self-indulgent hoity-toity drivel 
And I'm talking about a country whose fate will be decided by 8% of it's population. Fate's a bit strong but it will cost tens of billions. Soon we'll be discussing serious money. I think we can all agree that our current crop of politicians - bar maybe a dozen - are self-serving and pretty much without merit. Federalism is fine but after the horse-trading Scotland would probably end up with less money, I suspect. Anyway, the can of worms has been opened. The Law of Unintended Consequences is as widely applicable as any of Newton's.
Well, if the Scots don't wont us we will depart and take our custom and money. And they can become a quaint backwater, Celtic customs in a Donald Trump theme park. They'll still attract plenty of rich businessmen from all over the world - to shoot their grouse and deer, catch their salmon and play golf - providing abundant career opportunities as ghillies, beaters, stalkers, caddies, green-keepers, chauffeurs, waiters, barmen etc... And their better halves can provide them with 'comfort' in the evening.
You've got to admit this Korean spirit can start wars. Jinro! I really should go - but nice to get some feedback.
You've got to admit this Korean spirit can start wars. Jinro! I really should go - but nice to get some feedback.
Yes crags, I know (about both). But you would be unconscious by this stage.
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..\......... :D ......../
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Considered feedback.
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.../'/.../..../...../\
.(.(.......... ./.....)
..\......... :D ......../
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Considered feedback.
It's the brawl in the virtual pub car park. I feel young again.
I've still got 2" left (in the bottle). Actually more widely applicable, sadly.
Come on. Amuse me. For example - I asked about the stellar people who would lead 'independent ' Scots to the promised land. No names yet - after 24 hours+.
Come on. Amuse me. For example - I asked about the stellar people who would lead 'independent ' Scots to the promised land. No names yet - after 24 hours+.
I've just read the whole thread for the first time (yes, I was that bored). Isn't screaming from beneaththewaves impressive - just the kind of intellect the new Scotland needs, but wont get.
That's more like it, erse2. Reality re-established. Now I can sleep.
That's more like it, erse2. Reality re-established. Now I can sleep.
Who exactly is allowed a vote? How does the system work?
I've seen English people being interviewed who are eligible to vote?
What about Scottish people residing in England, do they get a vote?
As far as i can remember there's always been 5 million people living in Scotland?
How many Scots reside/commute work between England and Scotland?
All very confusing this independence referendum.
No wonder so many are still undecided! What's the vote really all about?
bodil, you seem to have a handle on proceedings - enlighten me with your wisdom.
I've seen English people being interviewed who are eligible to vote?
What about Scottish people residing in England, do they get a vote?
As far as i can remember there's always been 5 million people living in Scotland?
How many Scots reside/commute work between England and Scotland?
All very confusing this independence referendum.
No wonder so many are still undecided! What's the vote really all about?
bodil, you seem to have a handle on proceedings - enlighten me with your wisdom.
So the yes vote is successful. You've painted your faces blue, gone down to the border, lifted your kilts and exposed your buttocks to a few disinterested English sheep, beat up a couple of OAPs with a No poster in their window and pushed dog excrement through JK Rowling's letter box.
I would have thought you'd be above and beyond that bodil.
"To date, the only crimes associated with the referendum that I know of were the conviction for assault on a Yes campaigner by someone from the No campaign, the No campaigner who kicked a pregnant Yes campaigner in the stomach, the guy who threatened on Twitter to kill Salmond, and of course the guy who threw the egg at Murphy.
Is it not interesting that Murphy's egg has had more media exposure - indeed this must be one of the best known eggs in Scotland - than the appearance in court of the guy who threatened to kill Salmond. What kind of media do we have where throwing an egg (and for the record, stupid thing to do) is treated with more gravity than a threat to kill someone?
The fact is that Labour have spun a narrative where the Yes side are marauding all over the country threatening good honest patriots. The fact there is little or no evidence for this is merely a detail - it must be true because this is what Labour are saying. McConnell I see is at the same game again this morning, and once more has been slapped down for his "exaggerated rhetoric" by the Police Fed.
Perhaps you might want to comment on the SSP meeting in Drumchapel last night which had to be abandoned because of the abuse being handed out by pro-Union protesters?"
From the Herald.
I would have thought you'd be above and beyond that bodil.
"To date, the only crimes associated with the referendum that I know of were the conviction for assault on a Yes campaigner by someone from the No campaign, the No campaigner who kicked a pregnant Yes campaigner in the stomach, the guy who threatened on Twitter to kill Salmond, and of course the guy who threw the egg at Murphy.
Is it not interesting that Murphy's egg has had more media exposure - indeed this must be one of the best known eggs in Scotland - than the appearance in court of the guy who threatened to kill Salmond. What kind of media do we have where throwing an egg (and for the record, stupid thing to do) is treated with more gravity than a threat to kill someone?
The fact is that Labour have spun a narrative where the Yes side are marauding all over the country threatening good honest patriots. The fact there is little or no evidence for this is merely a detail - it must be true because this is what Labour are saying. McConnell I see is at the same game again this morning, and once more has been slapped down for his "exaggerated rhetoric" by the Police Fed.
Perhaps you might want to comment on the SSP meeting in Drumchapel last night which had to be abandoned because of the abuse being handed out by pro-Union protesters?"
From the Herald.
DartsnBooze
DartsnBooze 17 Sep 14 11:10 Joined: 16 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 6,333 | Blogger: DartsnBooze's blog
Who exactly is allowed a vote?
ANYONE resident in Scotland who has registered to vote. That's it.
DartsnBooze 17 Sep 14 11:10 Joined: 16 Oct 10 | Topic/replies: 6,333 | Blogger: DartsnBooze's blog
Who exactly is allowed a vote?
ANYONE resident in Scotland who has registered to vote. That's it.
I'm so tired. Let's call a truce tomorrow and leave the bloodletting for Friday.
But first I need to finish my brain-dump. Or some kind of dump.
Alias. Late night posters on chit chat know that the watching masses (aka residue) demand entertainment - I do it myself - 'entertain me!'. So the sentence you quote was a hook - shock/amuse, draw the punters in. But the central point of the post was, you'll all be the same people on Friday morning that you were a week ago (equally dynamic, equally passive). There will be no magic alchemical transformation - lead will still be lead. But, for certain, you will be in a bitterly divided country with a powerful (10x+) neighbour to the south who is going to make you pay for your rejection. Given the economic chaos we will inflict on you, the only reason anyone will vote Yes is because they are either blissfully unaware of the consequences or they hate the English so much they are willing to bring the temple down on everyone.
And as for your complaint, just about every report of intimidation/harassment/violence today has been Yes on No. Partially blind pensioner distributing No leaflets punched. Galloway has a bullet with his name on it somewhere. Milliband shouted down and cuts visit short (that one may have been me). The Scottish extreme right is separatist - live with it. Fortunately the numerically-superior English far-right are either in jail/under house arrest with ankle bracelets, don't care, or don't know where Scotland is.
Watching today's proceedings I was struck by 2 things. Today's a working day but the Yes campaign had huge crowds out - presumably largely benefits claimants looking after No 1 and robbing the unborn future-Scots. The other was the unthinking evangelical fervour of the Yes crowds. For some reason it put me in mind of the Jonestown massacre. Alex as the Reverend Jim Jones, the SNP as the Peoples' Temple, the Blueshirts as the distributors of cyanide-laced punch, the Scottish population as the slightly reluctant victims, and the rest of us as the grieving relatives wondering what collective madness could have brought about this catastrophe. But on Friday morning you'll all be alive and at each-others' throats and we'll be vengeful rather than grieving. I realise it's a pretty crappy analogy, but the separatist argument is a pretty crappy case.
But first I need to finish my brain-dump. Or some kind of dump.
Alias. Late night posters on chit chat know that the watching masses (aka residue) demand entertainment - I do it myself - 'entertain me!'. So the sentence you quote was a hook - shock/amuse, draw the punters in. But the central point of the post was, you'll all be the same people on Friday morning that you were a week ago (equally dynamic, equally passive). There will be no magic alchemical transformation - lead will still be lead. But, for certain, you will be in a bitterly divided country with a powerful (10x+) neighbour to the south who is going to make you pay for your rejection. Given the economic chaos we will inflict on you, the only reason anyone will vote Yes is because they are either blissfully unaware of the consequences or they hate the English so much they are willing to bring the temple down on everyone.
And as for your complaint, just about every report of intimidation/harassment/violence today has been Yes on No. Partially blind pensioner distributing No leaflets punched. Galloway has a bullet with his name on it somewhere. Milliband shouted down and cuts visit short (that one may have been me). The Scottish extreme right is separatist - live with it. Fortunately the numerically-superior English far-right are either in jail/under house arrest with ankle bracelets, don't care, or don't know where Scotland is.
Watching today's proceedings I was struck by 2 things. Today's a working day but the Yes campaign had huge crowds out - presumably largely benefits claimants looking after No 1 and robbing the unborn future-Scots. The other was the unthinking evangelical fervour of the Yes crowds. For some reason it put me in mind of the Jonestown massacre. Alex as the Reverend Jim Jones, the SNP as the Peoples' Temple, the Blueshirts as the distributors of cyanide-laced punch, the Scottish population as the slightly reluctant victims, and the rest of us as the grieving relatives wondering what collective madness could have brought about this catastrophe. But on Friday morning you'll all be alive and at each-others' throats and we'll be vengeful rather than grieving. I realise it's a pretty crappy analogy, but the separatist argument is a pretty crappy case.
If the vote is 'yes', will 16 year olds need passports to scarper to Gretna Green?
I've got a few more odds and ends to tidy up, but what has disappointed me is the lack of relevant response from the Nats to the key questions. You really haven't thought any of this through, have you? Stuff the English, and that's about it.
Tonight I am drinking ouzo.
Tonight I am drinking ouzo.
bodil...ouzo?...even a peasant wouldnt drink that dross...I am enjoying a late night treat
a delicious glass of Bruichladdich...one of the many reasons we want away from you lot.
a delicious glass of Bruichladdich...one of the many reasons we want away from you lot.
bodil many of us are tired and fed up of being ruled by a self serving party that has one seat in our country..is that really so hard to understand?
It's a coalition government - no one voted for it. In the 2010 general election in Scotland, the SNP got 491,000 votes, the Conservatives got 413,000. Seems many of countrymen don't agree with you. Are you getting the 'correction' camps ready?
The last time I drank ouzo, they said they could follow my progress by the trail of vomit. When I fell out of bed my room-mate said he left me there because I couldn't fall any further. It was a field trip to Cyprus in the early 1970s. The leader - the great Professor Dan Gill - went out into the port bars and got into fights with American sailors. Sometime during the night he emptied his mighty bladder in bed. In the morning he just propped the mattress on the balcony to dry in the sun. The hotel proprietor was incensed. He need not have worried - it was Kyrenia, and within a year the Turks took it over. Happy days. Ouzo really is drinkable. I expect your dogs would love it.
The last time I drank ouzo, they said they could follow my progress by the trail of vomit. When I fell out of bed my room-mate said he left me there because I couldn't fall any further. It was a field trip to Cyprus in the early 1970s. The leader - the great Professor Dan Gill - went out into the port bars and got into fights with American sailors. Sometime during the night he emptied his mighty bladder in bed. In the morning he just propped the mattress on the balcony to dry in the sun. The hotel proprietor was incensed. He need not have worried - it was Kyrenia, and within a year the Turks took it over. Happy days. Ouzo really is drinkable. I expect your dogs would love it.
We arent voting for the snp..we are voting for the right to govern ourselves.
2010 was along time ago and even you would admit those figures would be very different today.
2010 was along time ago and even you would admit those figures would be very different today.
You're voting to reject us - and we (11x larger) will react accordingly and logically. We will arrange things to suit our best interest. Sensible enough, I'm sure you'll agree?
yes indeed..we are terrified of what dire retribution Dave will bring on us.
regardless of the result Cameron is a dead man walking(politically speaking)
regardless of the result Cameron is a dead man walking(politically speaking)
Dave is a dead man walking. Great. Something we can agree on. It's the lumpen public who will punish you. If yes, there will be a worrying trickle of money going south. Actually on day 1 a lot will disappear. But when the acrimonious divorce settlement discussions take place, there will be a tidal wave of rage down here - organized campaigns against Scottish-based financial companies will ensure they move south (not just the name-plate) or die. We can stand the loss of diminishing oil revenues - they are no longer big enough to be important. Strangulation of both will do for you. None of this is in your control - you're too small.
crikey bodil!..why didnt the no campaign wheel you out?...we never said we thought it would be easy.
so if the no lot win...jock parliament will get more powers and more dosh from our english chums?
and we help get rid of Dave...jobs a goodun.
and we help get rid of Dave...jobs a goodun.
What the hell was I going to say? Going to start with a quote from The Scottish Play(isn't that sweet?). 'I am in blood
Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o'er.'
Right. Sigh. Let's see what the loons have contributed.
Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o'er.'
Right. Sigh. Let's see what the loons have contributed.
nite nite bodil...have to get up early to vote..then spend the rest of my day scaring no voters.
OK I'm going to bed. So tired. I'll say this only once. It will be insane to vote for separation. But we have always been irrational apes. Please wait until I'm dead before you commit suicide. Thank you and good night.
No rage where I am south of the border, everyone i speak to wants Scotland to look after their own the best way they can
PatraTheCat 18 Sep 14 02:39
Superb stuff from Bodil here.
I've seen enough of our friend bodil over the years to be able to categorically state that when he's in full flow, he is very intelligent, not in the least inarticulate and always entertaining.
He should be King.
Superb stuff from Bodil here.
I've seen enough of our friend bodil over the years to be able to categorically state that when he's in full flow, he is very intelligent, not in the least inarticulate and always entertaining.
He should be King.
Most kind cmat. Truly. I would do a better job than most in important posts were I as sober as you. Sadly I have too many skeletons in my closet. Actually I live in the closet and the skeletons have the run of the house. But I have finally discovered the Nats' blueprint for an independent Scotland:
a) Stuff the English
b) Pray for a miracle.
a) Stuff the English
b) Pray for a miracle.
The only thing that wee eck hasn't promised us in an independent Scotland is better weather. Still time I suppose.
I would not have resurrected this but there are some fascistic SN 'threads' coming through re the vote on all media. You lost because you would have ruined the country eventually. You're servants of chaos. Happy to discuss.
Did I frighten you all away?
Or were you just bored.
Good-bye.
Or were you just bored.
Good-bye.
Salmond at least has really stirred up British politics. There's not only a UKIP fox in the Westminster House, but a big Scottish c0ck as well.
Hey, this Bodil guy can put it together when he wants to...yet 99.99% of the time he posts utter p1sh!
bodil 18 Sep 14 14:41
But I have finally discovered the Nats' blueprint for an independent Scotland:
a) Stuff the English
b) Pray for a miracle.
But I have finally discovered the Nats' blueprint for an independent Scotland:
a) Stuff the English
b) Pray for a miracle.
There were loads of saltires covering windows, on cars, all over the place...didn't see a single union jack...the place is as flat as a fookin' 2-d pancake now...a 2-d pancake that has been beaten doon wi' a 4 ton lead mallet.
The Spanish should not be lecturing anyone on anything .
"Anything"?? Whit aboot Art...? Y'know, like...eh...Picasso, Dali, Goya, Zurbaran, Velazquez...? 
Some fantastic stuff from Bodil in this thread ;) Admiring his work! *applauds*
Yeah - where the fook has he been? It's like watching Ronaldinho play a blinder after ten sh1t games...and why should SCOTLAND produce this reaction?
To my fellow scots
If at sometime you get the chence
To vote for Independence
To keep the English morrans
From stealing what's in our sporrans
Then let every Scot don their kilt
And back the yes campaign up to the hilt.
Let's keep to ourselves our haggis
And send them one's full of maggits
We've got the oil and plenty of whiskey
So don't worry if you think it's risky
We are better off without them
Though I would miss the people in Wales.
Robert Burns
If at sometime you get the chence
To vote for Independence
To keep the English morrans
From stealing what's in our sporrans
Then let every Scot don their kilt
And back the yes campaign up to the hilt.
Let's keep to ourselves our haggis
And send them one's full of maggits
We've got the oil and plenty of whiskey
So don't worry if you think it's risky
We are better off without them
Though I would miss the people in Wales.
Robert Burns
Hey Vel. Did I talk with you about Science Fiction Adventures no 24?
No Bodil, what is science fiction adventures no 24? I spent a few hours last week looking up sf authors to see what befell them. Harlan Ellison still on the go. There's a good interview on YouTube with Harlan Ellison and Robin Williams where RW can't get a word in edgeways.
Used to love the intros in Dangerous Visions - much better than the actual stories.
Used to love the intros in Dangerous Visions - much better than the actual stories.
Velasquez
23 Sep 14 13:42
No Bodil, what is science fiction adventures no 24?
It's the one between science fiction adventures no 23 and science fiction adventures no 25.
It's working title was 'I'm invisible to humans.'
23 Sep 14 13:42
No Bodil, what is science fiction adventures no 24?
It's the one between science fiction adventures no 23 and science fiction adventures no 25.
It's working title was 'I'm invisible to humans.'
Thanks for that, call a taxi for me. I won't have to read it now as I am not a fan of invisible stories. Can you also do a quick resume of this afternoon's TRUE ENTERTAINMENT film, please? Any idea what it is about? It's called "Switched At Birth."
I saw that, Vel. it's about new electrical equipment being fitted with a switch. V. Poor.
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