breadnbutter  • July 18, 2014 9:44 PM BST
chit chat is full of acid casualties from the sixties imo

I don't think Einstein agreed with quantum physics brassneck
having something in two places at the same time he found difficult to accept, in fact so do I
not that I understand quantum physics...my knowledge, and brain probably, is not up to it

Determinism can give some advantage though. It could make us more philosophical, accepting of life,
so less dissatisfied. 

It tends to be more like this in the far East, although this can have its disadvantages, people accept things
when they be improving their life.

But I think we could with more of it in the West, to combat this consumerist society we have.
Everybody is told to be dissatisfied with everything they have, so they will go out and buy the latest model,
even though there is little wrong with the old one.

ta brassneck...I will google that
although I think I appear more intelligent than I am tbh

Back to the GOD question, one argument for a creator..............

So far as we know we are the only life in the Universe
That would defy probability, if life is a result of the physical laws of the our Universe, unless the probability
is so high, life can only occur once per universe...considering the size of the Universe, that is extremely high odds

Of course we don't know that as yet. One purpose of the human race could be to find it out. Or indeed to colonise
the universe.(I used to read a lot of science fiction as a kid)

The technology required is some way in the future sadly.
And worrying we are becoming more and more introverted lately.
We think worrying about our weight is more important than answering the big questions

We still have no idea how life started, although we have worked out how evolution works, once it has.
But to get from inanimate things to DNA is blank at the moment I think????????????????????????

That is a pretty appalling post erse2

You are mocking someone who suffers a dreadful disease

For all that he has a great mind, few people have that sadly

cardiff you've shown you're a mental midget throughout this thread.

ebulgery it was supposed to allude to our own mortality

Yes I think we admire Hawkins mind

but I suspect few would want the package deal would they....his mind plus his disease

he has also shown great determination and fortitude here

you are right Cardiff....I am not sure he can backtrack....hmmm??????????????????????????

cant*

the opposite of you then

Many eminent scientists believe in God. However, most atheists tend to take the word of the likes of Hawkings as their own personal Gospel. His call on us to choose between God and physics is far too simplistic.

Hawking claims, physical laws can never provide a complete explanation of the universe. Laws themselves do not create anything, they are merely a description of what happens under certain conditions. Similarly, the laws of physics could never have actually built the universe. Some agency must have been involved.

To use a simple analogy, Isaac Newton's laws of motion in themselves never sent a snooker ball racing across the green baize. That can only be done by people using a snooker cue and the actions of their own arms.

Hawking's argument appears to me even more illogical when he says the existence of gravity means the creation of the universe was inevitable. But how did gravity exist in the first place? Who put it there? And what was the creative force behind its birth?

It is fascinating that Hawking, in attacking religion, feels compelled to put so much emphasis on the Big Bang theory. Because, even if the non-believers don't like it, the Big Bang fits in exactly with the Christian narrative of creation.

That is why, before the Big Bang gained currency, so many scientists were keen to dismiss it, since it seemed to support the Bible story. Some clung to Aristotle's view of the 'eternal universe' without beginning or end; but this theory, and later variants of it, are now deeply discredited.

Yet many scientists and non believers like Cardiff talk about 'the invisible man in the sky' and claim 'there was no Jesus.' However, Jesus' existence is well-documented; not just in the scriptures and other testimony but also in a wealth of archaeological findings. To denounce a factual being yet give credence to the theoretical existence of aliens seems to me to be paradoxical and not logical.

Yet, they state science is based on proof and religion on storytelling?!

It always amuses me that atheists often argue for the existence of extra-terrestrial intelligence beyond earth (HAwkings again offered up the possibility but obviously could not present any). Yet they are only too eager to denounce the possibility that we already have a vast, intelligent being out there: God.

Yet non believers ask Christians to provide proof of Gods existence.

I am with Einstein in his belief about closed minds. Surely science has taught us that dismissing something which they cannot prove either way is about as un scientific as you can get.

Amen.

charwell,
Most atheists don't take the word of the likes of Hawking, they think it through for themselves and then decide to reject the 2000 year old confidence trick.

ask kenny he was there in Witherspoons

Don't think many people dispute the claim that a man called Jesus of Nazareth once existed, what is contentious is the claim for the existence of God.

cardifffc
20 Jul 14 00:31   
have you seen that clip where ali g is being  told by a catholic priest that jesus was born in a stable because there was no room at the inn...ali g asks him ...is that because it was christmas

The same joke was done 50 years ago in Til Death Us Do Part by Alf Garnett and his wife.

There are loads of Gods Mac - Muhammad, Allah, Buddha, Mithras etc,etc

Respect to Charwell but have a problem with his comments "the laws of physics could never have actually built the universe"

yes the laws of physics are the basic building blocks and are known and they present in all known matter ...imvoh

There are forces in play in our universe that we don't understand imo,for example imagine a force that could put a double decker bus in a  matchbox and x it by millions ,this is the sort of forces that could be at play imo ,i dont understand any of it ,but have always believed anything is possible and nothing is impossible  ,human conciousness is very tangible and we do have a huge mind capacity ,but so do dolphins.Crows are capable of problem solving ,dogs have great powers and in many senses eyesight ,hearing ,smelling  they are well advanced of anything a human can muster so any belief that we are so important that we must have a Creator is just fanciful.

brass........and theres science in the bible totally wrong

hi cardiffc,yes the bible is full of crazy stuff,but so is science,i I am told that science can not prove a term called an "event horizon" they don't even know what it is,and use it as a get out clause.but they also say if there is no event horizon that science books can be chucked into the waste paper bin.i think the bible could be in the same bin.

Just ask a Chrisitian who the Nephilim were, usually provokes a heated debate !

And one last point,there is a little force called GRAVITY,had all the gravity in the universe been present at the first second of the big bang nothing would have moved.so gravity must have appeared later on.so at some time it was the controler otherwise there would be no universe.and the latest science news is that the universe is expanding faster that ever before(2 months old news).so its down to dark matter,that nobody has ever seen ,nobody knows what it is,they cant find it,and they don't know where to look for it,but like the wind they know its there.