Missing Plane......

Or fire cause same as http://www.avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7&opt=0

And decompression occurs. Autopilot flies plane till fuel runs out.

...then why no distress call.......

...would fire/decompression happen so quickly that they couldn't have used their oxygen masks and communicated their plight....even once!!

Well in the example on the 777 I gave the cause was Electrical fault or short circuit resulted in electrical heating of flexible hoses in the flight crew oxygen system.

So I guess that rules out them using their oxygen in the cockpit. Electrical faults can knock out the comminications too.

About 30 minutes after the oxygen masks were checked the first officer heard a pop followed by a hissing sound from the right hand side of his seat, fire and smoke came out of the right hand console underneath the #3 cockpit window to the right of the first officer. The captain ordered the first officer to leave the cockpit immediately and notify cabin crew and emergency of the cockpit fire. The captain discharged the fire extinguisher available in the cockpit, however did not manage to put the fire out. The first officer in the meantime notified cabin crew of the cockpit fire prompting an immediate rapid disembarkment via the jetways, then moved on to find somebody with a radio unit, stopped a car on the service way underneath the jetway and radioed the fire department, first fire trucks arrived about 3 minutes after the fire was first observed. Rapid deplanement was completed in about 4-5 minutes. Fire fighters were able to extinguish the fire quickly, all works to extinguish and cool the aircraft were finished about 94 minutes after the onset of fire.

If that happened inflight, noone would survive IMHO.

1) Aviate
2) Navigate,
3) Communicate

by the time they got to communicate, all was lost....

..sounds the likeliest then.....

..but.....if there is fire...wouldn't it rule out the plane running on autopilot for hours....surely the fire would bring the plane down far sooner than running out of fuel....

..which means it wouldn't have been flying for hours after contact was lost....which also means the wreckage should be nearer rather than farther.

Well if its a cockpit fire, the engines would be ok? Would the plane just stay on autopilot and fly until the fuel ran out?

Cockpit fire/fire on board theory was looked at yesterday.

The response was:

"This theory has been disputed. If the course was changed during a major emergency, one might expect it to be done using manual control. But the left turn was the result of someone in the cockpit typing "seven or eight keystrokes into a computer on a knee-high pedestal between the captain and the first officer, according to officials", the New York Times reported. The paper says this "has reinforced the belief of investigators - first voiced by Malaysian officials - that the plane was deliberately diverted and that foul play was involved."

Also we know the plane flew over the Malaysian peninsula almost exactly between the two nearest major airports (Langkawi and Penang). There was also another airport with 747 capability on the east coast that a 777 could have landed at (or been aimed at) in an emergency. So why did the plane change course once more from it's initial heading over Malaysia to the 45 degree course now being searched north and south?

...all very strange and very confusing....and intriguing....

...shame they don't have video camera in the cockpit that sends a live feed back.

One of two theories for me:

1 - he or someone else hijacked the flight, piggybacked the radar of the Singapore flight to avoid detection and the plane is now in the hands of the Taliban or Uighur Muslims in China.
2 - he flew south in a suicide flight and ran out of fuel somewhere in the Indian ocean.

Fire caused possibly by front tyre.
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate
Pilot 'pulls busses' in line with procedure which turns off all non essential electrical circuits. including all tracking/radar systems.
Pilot turns left to Navigate to best airport to land at.
Fire takes hold,
Crash.

Doesnt co-pilot  have chat with air traffic control after the first tracking equipment is turned off

yes...it would seem so....

The ACARS - a service that allows computers aboard the plane to "talk" to computers on the ground - was silenced some time after 01:07 as the plane crossed Malaysia's east coast.

At about 01:19 the co-pilot was heard to say: "All right, good night".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26503141

If it crashed at sea we'd find out eventually when the seats cushions are found washed up on shore, they can't sink

The timing of the last confirmed communication with a satellite was 08:11 (00:11 GMT), meaning that the Boeing continued flying for nearly seven hours after contact with air traffic control was lost.

....baffling!

is it sure that these pings could not have come from a ditched plane or one on the sea already?

The ACARS - a service that allows computers aboard the plane to "talk" to computers on the ground - was silenced some time after 01:07 as the plane crossed Malaysia's east coast.

At about 01:19 the co-pilot was heard to say: "All right, good night".


I think the next ACARS was due at 1:37 so still some time for **** to hit fan and turn off ACARS after 1:19 maybe

yes...maybe Brendan......

..the info that comes out doesn't seem to be that precise.......whether that is incompetence or by design....

...I cant believe with so much technology around that one of the superpowers hasn't got more info than is being given out.

..no wonder the relatives are starting to lose it......

...and I think im right in saying that if it ditched into the sea the black boxes start to ping as soon as they hit the water.....and these signals can be detected by the newer search vessels hundreds of miles away!!!

Yes its really patchy considering it was 10 days ago. These "2 corridors" are bit strange its one arc, but they remove the center part around the place it actually went missing

...yes...so they must be assuming....or actually know.....that the last satellite communication was genuine....and it did indeed fly all that time after contact was lost!!!!

..whether it was flying on auto or by someone...well...who knows.

...and Boeing have gone silent I think.....

..wasn't there a stage where they said the engines were updating info to the ground????

not sure.

yes it was Rolls Royce at some point to

What is the reference to the plane ascending to a height of 45,000 feet before returning to a more suitable altitude - im sure ive heard this mentioned in some report somewhere.

If this is true and it was briefly taken to that height then that is very ominus for the passengers as it could have been an effort to get them to pass out quickly after the plane was decompressed.

ground radar picked up a change in altitude jimmy, but these readings alone can often be wrong, there was one a few years ago where they accused the pilots of altering altitude but when they checked the flight recorders they found it was dodgy data and nothing to do with a subsequent crash

but if it is a true reading then it could be an attempt to further reduce oxygen, the mask oxygen would last between 10-15 mins, he could have flicked on passenger seatbelts, depressurised the cabin and kept them high until they were all dead, no one other than the 2nd pilot would have made an attempt to prevent this and chances are he was the first to be taken out, all that remains is which pilot did what in that scenario?

Starting to think that this is a plot and things are at a tender stage ,if you go back over how and when and by whom things have been released its starting to look like the plane may well be some where  completely mad like the stans or  in china itself..

the passengers would most likely be bargaining chips with the £150m 777  and cargo of little interest ,political prisoners in China/Afghan  a poss target imo  ?

Pilots/crew  may have been coerced by kidnapped family ...but thats just a guess ,pilots social media use  could have got him into all sorts of shoite

Reports a chinese passenger has had sim training ,looks like the whole of the asian civ/mil radar network shuts down for the w/end

Mar 18, 2014 -- 1:19PM, brendanuk1 wrote:

Yes its really patchy considering it was 10 days ago. These "2 corridors" are bit strange its one arc, but they remove the center part around the place it actually went missing

It's triangulation from a satellite orbitting earth. They could work out the approximate distance from the satellite only, hence the odd-looking arc.

point i am making is the last "ping" could have come from anywhere along the arc, but they remove the center bit around where it actually went missing and you end up with "2 corridors". 

It could have sent its last ping from a few miles from where it went missing, but seems to be assumption that it must have been "going somewhere" ie not ditched in the sea or going around and around in tight circle for 7 hours.

I think the centre bit doesn't match the approximate distance from the satellite though. It's too far away.

Its just a circle, why not just connect the 2 red "arms" why call them 2 corridors?

Because the satellite is over the earth and not geocentric to the point of last contact. You have to think of it as a 3d model, where there is a distance from the satellite to the potential flight path.

you what?

The pilot is holding de fan..

http://indianexpress.com/photos/picture-gallery-others/dalai-lama-in-shimla/#dalailama-4

Mar 18, 2014 -- 2:55PM, brendanuk1 wrote:

you what?

The satellite is 35,800 km above sea level. So you have to take that into account when calculating any distance. And because it's to the west of the last point of contact, then the western most parts of the red arc are presuambly too far away to the approximate distance given.

Certainly, that's the way I understood it. However, this has never been fully explained, and secondly, it depends what data you believe since nothing appears all that clear.

*eastern most parts.

i'm none the wiser either brendan .


must have skipped too many lessons for my own good

Mar 18, 2014 -- 12:09PM, Biscuit1979 wrote:

Cockpit fire/fire on board theory was looked at yesterday.The response was:"This theory has been disputed. If the course was changed during a major emergency, one might expect it to be done using manual control. But the left turn was the result of someone in the cockpit typing "seven or eight keystrokes into a computer on a knee-high pedestal between the captain and the first officer, according to officials", the New York Times reported. The paper says this "has reinforced the belief of investigators - first voiced by Malaysian officials - that the plane was deliberately diverted and that foul play was involved."

If the course was changed during a major emergency, one might expect it to be done using manual control. But the left turn was the result of someone in the cockpit typing "seven or eight keystrokes into a computer on a knee-high pedestal between the captain and the first officer, according to officials


How do they know this?

There's a fantastic explanation of the radar arc here

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/03/16/nr-myers-search-zeroing-southern-indian-ocean.cnn&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&video_referrer=

that cnn seems to think no center red arc due to that area being discounted because it is covered by radar. Suppose might be true.

This one seems to have some reason for it.

.
https://www.amsa.gov.au/media/index.asp

Was the name Chris Jefferies ,on the passenger list ?

they can not tell if it went north or south even after analysis . They are guessing its south as northern route is populated / radar and would have expected some reaction from countries it flew over. 2 yellow lines are 2 possible speeds of the plane. A "few weeks" to search area.

Guess the northern corridor one is covered by the Chinese

Mar 18, 2014 -- 3:56PM, Hamsterdam wrote:

There's a fantastic explanation of the radar arc herehttp://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/03/16/nr-myers-search-zeroing-southern-indian-ocean.cnn&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&video_referrer=

That is a brilliant explanation. Basically it's GPS but with just one satellite since the basics of GPS is we can see at least three satellites all the time.

Mar 18, 2014 -- 4:39PM, brendanuk1 wrote:

they can not tell if it went north or south even after analysis . They are guessing its south as northern route is populated / radar and would have expected some reaction from countries it flew over. 2 yellow lines are 2 possible speeds of the plane. A "few weeks" to search area. Guess the northern corridor one is covered by the Chinese

Except there is one theory that the pilot could have ghosted from another plane's radar being both hidden from the other plane - because it's transponders weren't on - and hidden from the ground - because the other plane was heading in that direction.

I think they know the direction and rough speed now from the intervening hourly pings, just not making them public. Looking pretty certain its in south indian ocean to me. Wont know more until black box comes up if it ever does.

10 days after the aircraft disappeared, Thailand's military said yesterday that its radar detected a plane that may have been the Malaysia Airlines jet, minutes after its communications went down, but did not share the data earlier because officials “did not pay any attention to it” and were not specifically asked for it.

well it has certainly turned into a farce, the press must be loving this.

Mar 18, 2014 -- 5:00PM, Burton-Brewers wrote:

well it has certainly turned into a farce, the press must be loving this.

Farce. Exactly.

Was this simply a dry run by somebody to see if they could hijack a plane and evade detection? Because if so, the answer is a resounding yes.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/malaysian-airlines-expands-investigation-to...

Now I am confused. The west turn was programmed into Flight Management system before ACRAS sent this information back at 1.07am

If it was a hijacking/suicide the pilots turned off the ACRAS system after putting this turn in. Did they not know this information would be sent out?

Allianz have apparently already started insurance payouts

Mar 18, 2014 -- 8:53PM, Helissio wrote:

Now I am confused. The west turn was programmed into Flight Management system before ACRAS sent this information back at 1.07amIf it was a hijacking/suicide the pilots turned off the ACRAS system after putting this turn in. Did they not know this information would be sent out?

Made the turn to try and find an airport because of a fire and then turned it off maybe?

Reports coming in about pieces being spotted in the sea off Western Australia

this takes another twist, 1500 miles sw of perth, if it is the plane it's just flown south out into the ocean until the fuel ran out

Nothing spotted today "except for a freighter and 2 pods of dolphins".

Search continues tomorrow.

I hope they fed them

Would it not be possible that the Russians shot down the plane out of the blue (Opportunity) using a super secret stealth type aircraft (Means)in order to deflect media attention from them being naughty in Crimea? (Motive)

Could be something along the lines of what happened to Helios Airways Flight 522,some how the pilots have passed out 1st ,there can have been no warning other wise pilots would have said they had a problem,maybe one of the planes cockpit windows has blown out  ,the transponder could have been been turned off by accident by someone
entering the **** pit who obviously didnt know what they were doing ..

Failing that it can only be Pilot Suicide imvho ..

The search for two large objects that may be from the missing Malaysia Airlines jet has resumed in the southern Indian Ocean.

The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) said Friday's operation would involve four military aircraft, including two RAAF Orions, scouring a remote area of 8,800 sq miles (23,000 sq km).

The planes, which set off from Perth, are expected to arrive in the area around midnight (UK time).

A Norwegian merchant ship - the first vessel to reach the vicinity - has been using searchlights through the night to try and locate the objects.

They were spotted by a satellite last Sunday and could potentially be debris from flight MH370.



One is thought to be 24 metres in length and the other about five metres.

The sightings have been deemed "credible" and a "potentially important development" by authorities - as the search for the passenger plane enters its 13th day.

A New Zealand Orion and a US Navy Poseidon aircraft are also involved in the search.

Australian naval vessel HMAS Success, which is capable of retrieving debris, is also en route to the search area but is some days away.

A British naval survey ship, HMS Echo, is also heading to the region.

There has been no trace of the aircraft since it vanished from radar a short distance into a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8.

Wider searches, including of a northern corridor from northern Thailand to Kazakhstan, are set to continue until investigators are certain they have located the plane. Some 18 ships and 29 aircraft are taking part.

Those areas were targeted after faint electronic "pings" picked up by one commercial satellite suggested flight MH370 flew on for at least six hours after it disappeared from air traffic control screens.

china sending 9 ships to the debris area

All that for a floating (for now) cylinder..

cnn live..wall to wall covered for those intrested....

http://www.playlivenews.com/2010/08/watch-cnn-news-live/

I'm watching Mr Tictac. As I have for the last few nights. Always liked CNN.

We dont think there are any vehicles in the world that can travel that far without running out of fuel.(to stay in that area very long to search.



BUT WE CAN SEND A ROCKET TO THE MOON FFS

*).

The US have drones that can pick out a man from thousands of feet ,then bomb an kill anything within a certain radius ,yet we cannot with all the satellites in the world find the wreckage of a plane ,Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 sleeps with the fishes

"yet we cannot with all the satellites in the world find the wreckage of a plane"



Satellites aren't much use finding something that is probably 10-15k feet under the sea

and none of the passengers were wearing Turbans....

Black Box only has 30 days battery time? Really? this unfortunate episode has shown how backward we still are...

minium of 30 days battery life,then the signal becomes weaker, afew aircraft accidents and the signal was still going 40 plus days.

looking more like human error or elecrical/ fire failure..cnn/ fbi reporting tonight

Satellites aren't much use finding something that is probably 10-15k feet under the sea

Well however the USA keep tack of Russian submarines perhaps
this technology could be used ,I believe the plane is underwater
thats what my post was  referring to ...

as in SLEEPING WITH THE FISHES ...

20 Freescale semiconductor (a US company - electronic warfare research among their specialities) employees on the plane bound to Beijing.....

....perhaps some of them had intentions to disseminate classified info ...like how to cloak a plane from radar...which would be very useful...and this was found out...

..and technology such as that espoused by Dr Judy Wood was used on the plane....hence no wreckage.. or none that is easily identifiable...

...maybe...perhaps....

..although that wouldn't explain the satellite info that suggests...if it is accurate or real...that the plane flew for several hours after contact was lost.

Tony Abbott (Aussie PM) has just said that the search for the plane in the southern Indian Ocean will go on "indefinitely" that's good to know and I really hope they find something soon as those relatives surely need some closure one way or the other

BUT ... Three things spring to mind

(1) Are all resources now concentrated on the southern Indian Ocean based on those two grainy satellite pictures ? sure they could be part of a plane but they could be lots of other things too ... why fly back over Malaysia before turning left to head south instead of making a right and heading directly south ?

(2) If the search continues to be fruitless, how long does "indefinitely" actually mean?

(3) Who is paying for all this as it can be cheap ?

Chinese have got more satellite photos of debris in area

"looking more like human error or elecrical/ fire failure..cnn/ fbi reporting tonight"

IF it was then it was a huge coincidence that it happened during that very short time period between air traffic controllers - when they were effectively in a radar black hole.  Because loss of contact at that point would have been an ideal time to take over the plane. And during that short time space no one on the ground would be aware what it was doing.

Looks more like a well-planned event to lose contact at that point than anything else (?)

cockpit recorder likely to be useless unless whoever did this left a nice message towards the end, the actual takeover and the majority of the flight won't be on it

the flight date recorder will show the track and that it ran out of fuel, it will show what human intervention was made, but it is unlikely to tell them who did it unless there are voices at some point in the final couple of hours of flight

i reckon all bar one were dead by then, they may never know which man did this

I would say this will still be solved. Its incredible how they tend to be despite the many difficulties in doing so.

Few things that might make it difficult though.......cant the cockpit voice recorder be turned off by pulling the circuit breaker? If so then surely this would be done by whoever sabotaged the plane.

Looks like the waiting is over.

"The following SMS message has been sent to relatives: "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean."

confirmed,found in indian ocean

I'm a tad confused. The Brits haver supplied satellite info of the plane?

13 days to "refine data?"

me thinks pilot wanted to take plane somewhere and fcuked up the flying time of aircraft

confirmed ?  by whom ?  the Malay could not confirm the world was round imo .

all sounds pretty  secret squirrel stuff and if i was a relative i would be needing a bit more than a text saying "beyond reasonable doubt" that the plane was lost and there were no survivors.

It could be that the Malay were just incompetent and failed to monitor their radar and  then allowed many countries to waste valuable resources looking in  completely the wrong areas ,granted the Chineses were quick to release satellite pictures but that was based on the flight ending where the where the Malay indicated .Exactly how and by what route the flight ended where it did is still a long way from being public knowledge .

It could be that the flight has now been accurately tracked using data from a number of places  but by whom and how is simply not going to be divulged any time soon .

you would think at least a  piece of the plane would be needed to confirm ?  there is a lot of plastic and foam on an aircraft ,not a single bit has been recovered as far as i know ,just images ?  all very strange .

anyone suggesting the Malay gov  want everyone to quickly forget and  move on to the F1 at the w/end is just a sado .

Malaysian authorities said Flight 370 was co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid's sixth flight in a Boeing 777, and the first time when he was not traveling with an instructor pilot shadowing him.

Ping noted
Reports suggesting an discovery

I know it is a mammoth task and the world's media is hungry for information but I was hoping for a bit more than the fact that they've noted a discarded golf club out there...

Still not found all the Pings
As bad as finding the Master winner
Needle in a haystack

^ Needle in a haystack

More than that, they haven't even found the haystack.  Latest news more encouraging because it's narrowed down to a significantly smaller area, and even if this is the black box they are picking up on the signals, and even if they can find the position of it, it could be about 15,000ft under water. If they do ever manage to get back this black box flight recorder, that alone would be incredible given the conditions they were faced with.

Well, until we know what happened, conspiracy theories will abound.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=95001

Methinks Tuesday will be revealing ...

They will recover the black boxes, no doubt about that. Hopefully they will be readable.


The FDR will be revealing but the CVR might be frustrating as it only has 2 hour recording ability so might not have picked up much.

Dnt underestimate the value of the 2hrs of CVR. It will likely have many alarms going off, ie. whistles and bells sounding. The last two hours of the flight capturing the sounds in the cockpit will help build up a picture of how the plane finally met it's end.  It could answer whether it was deliberately flown into the ocean or if it ran out of fuel and crashed into the sea unaided by human hand at that time.

"The international team searching the Indian Ocean for the Boeing 777 are now considering the seemingly impossible scenario of the aircraft having 'landed' somewhere, instead of crashing in the southern Indian Ocean."


Surely to land a plane like that would need a massive amount of space and long runway.  So if it was landed how many possible places are there where it could have landed AND just gone missing(?)

..very interesting trilby...

you can be sure that someone in the higher echelons on this planet knows what actually happened to this plane and those on board....and why.

CNN are now reporting that the pings definitely DID NOT come from the missing MH370.

Daily Mirror running a story that wreckage of MH370 may have been found in the Bay Of Bengal.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-flight-mh370-found-exploration-3470569

Seems this cargo not listed on plane manifest now causing concern
AGAIN

I SUSPECT A NBOMB HAS BEEN LOST ON BOARD

Batten down hatches

4 months ago today, not one body, no black box, no plane wreckage

Well it seems that
Malaysia air line are having an unfortunate year

Just hope it dosent become worse

MH370 is under a
hanger somewhere
totally intact

with today's technology,
particularly on the military side,
"they" know where it is within
an accuracy of 5 feet

"they" are saying nothing
so draw your own
conclusions