Chit Chat
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25 Jan 14
17:50
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Date Joined:
21 May 10
Before I outline the situation, let me say that I do intend to get professional advice but respect the opinions of the astute people on here and am just looking for some food for thought.
Ok. I own a one-third share of a flat together with my uncle and aunt (they are siblings).
The property is rented out and I have received my share of the rent up to and including March 2012. It is managed by a letting agency but my aunt deals with everything else.
I had no contact with her (other than receiving an annual cheque in the post) until she sent me a text message in September 2013 saying she wanted to buy my share of the flat, her brother had agreed to sell his share and could she call me to discuss.
She rang me the same day and only at this point did she tell me that the flat needed doing up and that the kitchen and bathroom had been refurbed in May 2013. She also said that she had the flat valued at £250k BEFORE the refurb and that I could sell my share for £83.3k
I said I woul need to think about whether or not I wanted to sell and we would talk again. I also reminded her that I hadn't received my share of the rent for 2011/12 or 2012/13.
I received a cheque for the rent for 2011/12 a few days later.
I wasn't keen to sell so left it until she contacted me about three weeks later. I then told her that I didn't really want to sell and she said that she'd have to ask me for one-third of the refurb costs which she now tells me is £20.4k in total ie my share would £6.8k
I said that I understand but that she would have to send me details of the costs and rent charged pre and post-refurb. and that I would give the sale idea more thought. I also asked to see a copy of the valuation but she said she didn't have anything.
She sent me the numbers but no breakdown of the refurb costs - just the total.
In December, I did some research on Zoopla and found a very similar property in the same street valued at £317k, with a slightly lower rental income estimate.
I contacted her and said I was concerned about the valuation. Her response was that it was impossible to compare because her valuation was done in prior to the refurb
I phoned her and said that she can't expect to purchase a property in December at a retrospective value and that I may as well pay my share of the refurb costs and sell at today's price and why on earth didn't she tell me that she was going to spend £20k on a refurb?
In the end she said "because my brother told me not to".
The choice they've given me is either sell at the £250k value, which apparently he has agreed to (I would add that he is a wealthy man so he's possibly not too worried about losing £10k); or pay one third of the refurb costs NOW and lose the opportunity to sell in the future.
She has also threatened me verbally with solicitors (for why, I don't know) and also charging me for her time for project-managing the refurb
Any comments would be most welcome
Ok. I own a one-third share of a flat together with my uncle and aunt (they are siblings).
The property is rented out and I have received my share of the rent up to and including March 2012. It is managed by a letting agency but my aunt deals with everything else.
I had no contact with her (other than receiving an annual cheque in the post) until she sent me a text message in September 2013 saying she wanted to buy my share of the flat, her brother had agreed to sell his share and could she call me to discuss.
She rang me the same day and only at this point did she tell me that the flat needed doing up and that the kitchen and bathroom had been refurbed in May 2013. She also said that she had the flat valued at £250k BEFORE the refurb and that I could sell my share for £83.3k
I said I woul need to think about whether or not I wanted to sell and we would talk again. I also reminded her that I hadn't received my share of the rent for 2011/12 or 2012/13.
I received a cheque for the rent for 2011/12 a few days later.
I wasn't keen to sell so left it until she contacted me about three weeks later. I then told her that I didn't really want to sell and she said that she'd have to ask me for one-third of the refurb costs which she now tells me is £20.4k in total ie my share would £6.8k
I said that I understand but that she would have to send me details of the costs and rent charged pre and post-refurb. and that I would give the sale idea more thought. I also asked to see a copy of the valuation but she said she didn't have anything.
She sent me the numbers but no breakdown of the refurb costs - just the total.
In December, I did some research on Zoopla and found a very similar property in the same street valued at £317k, with a slightly lower rental income estimate.
I contacted her and said I was concerned about the valuation. Her response was that it was impossible to compare because her valuation was done in prior to the refurb
I phoned her and said that she can't expect to purchase a property in December at a retrospective value and that I may as well pay my share of the refurb costs and sell at today's price and why on earth didn't she tell me that she was going to spend £20k on a refurb?
In the end she said "because my brother told me not to".
The choice they've given me is either sell at the £250k value, which apparently he has agreed to (I would add that he is a wealthy man so he's possibly not too worried about losing £10k); or pay one third of the refurb costs NOW and lose the opportunity to sell in the future.
She has also threatened me verbally with solicitors (for why, I don't know) and also charging me for her time for project-managing the refurb
Any comments would be most welcome
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Replies: 143
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she sounds like a right phecking piece of work.
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Surely any refurbishment/improvements, etc., shouldn't be done without all three partners agreeing to it and sharing the costs.
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You should insist on two or three independent valuations from local estate agents now, rather than going along with the one she says she has had done.
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Thanks squares - agree with all you say.
However, she has not given me the option to buy at today's value and a refurb has been done since her valuation. Tbh, I am furious |
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aunt or no aunt she deserves to have her bare buttocks spanked repeatedly in front of the tenants
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IMO she has done a load of things she shouldn't have done without consultation and agreement from all three partners.
From the sentences below, it sounds like she doesn't have paperwork to back up her claims or if she does she is unwilling to share it with you:- I said that I understand but that she would have to send me details of the costs and rent charged pre and post-refurb. and that I would give the sale idea more thought. I also asked to see a copy of the valuation but she said she didn't have anything. She sent me the numbers but no breakdown of the refurb costs - just the total. I would suggest she has more to fear from your solicitors than you from hers should that be the route you both take considering all her underhand tactics. |
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Surely it is not up to her to be giving you these options. If there are three equal partners at the moment, nobody should be able to make anyone else agree to something they don't want to do/think is fair and reasonable, etc.
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She would have to keep receipts etc for the refurb to offset the rental income against tax.
Sounds like shes trying to con you. Get a solicitir now. |
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So you are owed about a year and a halfs rent, get that first. Then proof of refurb costs then pay that and ask why she didnt consult you. Then get anup to date valuation and if you like what you see sell up.
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My thoughts exactly squares
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You'reholding all the cards here nick.
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Sounds like your being taken for a ride, how she thinks she has the right to a refurbishment without your ok is beyond me, as far as I can see its all black & white, a new & updated valuation is needed less the 20k spent on it & your entitled to a third, as no contract was originally drawn up about her being paid for " project- managing " she cannot charge you for said services.
May I add that she seems a right ficking cow. |
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Where does your share of the rent come from? The letting agency or from her?
Do you know for sure you are being paid the correct amount? If you are being paid by her - wtf are the letting agency doing? |
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Rob - she won't pay me rent until I agree to sell. If I don't sell, she is offsetting the rent against my share of the refurb costs.
squares - she keeps saying "the majority have agreed to sell". But surely that is not the case. My uncle is buying from her. What if I wanted to buy? Same situation. It's not as if they have both agreed to sell to an outsider and I am trying to block the sale |
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I would normally aviod solicitors but in this situation it really seems to be the best choice.
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she won't pay me rent until I agree to sell. If I don't sell, she is offsetting the rent against my share of the refurb costs.
^^ totally out of order. She has no right to do that. Your share of the rent has to be paid regardless of her outrageous scheming. Has the uncle paid his share of the refurb costs? Once you have seen all the paperwork and pay your share, it should be done as a lump sum rather than all this offsetting nonsense too. |
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pumpy - again, my thoughts exactly
squares - the rent comes from her. As far as receiving the correct amount goes, I have trusted her. I was disappointed not to receive a breakdown of deductions for agent's managing fees, ground rent etc but took a soft line because she was doing all the admin Rob - thanks, i appreciate the support |
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firstly, the decision to sell your share and the price you want to sell it at is your business and your business alone.
the renovation costs would come down to the terms of the partnership. such things are usually paid for by capital accrued by the partnership or if there is none, the partners fund it themselves (before the work starts). the project management costs would be included in the cost for the renovation and paid to your aunt by the partnership. this woman is not only an idiot but she's also obviously trying to rip you off. i would encourage her to contact solicitors if she feels like wasting money. |
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Where were the tenants staying whilst the refurbishments were taking place? Do you not think you've taking your eye off the ball here? A tad naïve imo.
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now, what you could do here is offer to buy her and your uncle out at a marginally higher price and see how she reacts.
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stewarty - the refurb was undertaken at the end of a tenancy. New tenants took occupany after the refurb
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she's obviously watched a few episodes of homes under the hammer and gone all lawrence llewellyn bowen on it, got the estate agents around, and convinced herself that the profit from the renovation is hers and hers alone.
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If you do sell chances are you will be liable for Capital Gains Tax so you will need proof of money spent on refurb.£20k on a flat is possible
but highly unlikely. |
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So you new the property was empty for a while? Anyways, it looks to me like a matter for the courts as I can't see any other result than your aunt has acted illegally.
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Stew - you could say I've been naive but I've been happy to maintain my distance.
This is in part because there has been some animosity in the family but NOT between myself and them. I have acted honourably, in good faith and with impeccable politeness at all times |
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stewarty b
25 Jan 14 18:31 Joined: 02 Aug 02 | Topic/replies: 5,796 | Blogger: stewarty b's blog So you new the property was empty for a while? Anyways, it looks to me like a matter for the courts as I can't see any other result than your aunt has acted illegally. I gather that the property was empty during the refurb in May but she didn't tell me until September |
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Take her to court then. She doesn't have a leg to stand on imho.
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stew - she threatened to take ME to court!
I will get a solicitor but take her to court for what? She hasn't really done anything yet to warrant that has she? And even if she has, what redresss would I get. I think she's trying to rip me off but it may well be that she hasn't yet |
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Only read the first few posts, so this may be a repeated bit of advice, albeit too late.
Never enter a business proposition with member(s) of your family. |
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Nick, if YOU were in charge of dishing out the rent three ways, would you have got the work done without informing the other two? No, that would be illegal in my book. Perhaps she thinks you're an easy touch. Get a solicitor, take her to court and she'll cave in before it even goes that far, on the advice of her own solicitor I would think. Go for it. Call her bluff.
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with family like that who needs enemies?
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could I suggest you post your problem up on this site nick
.http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/forum.php some very sharp minds on there and it is run by a couple of barristers |
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Indeed, MB.
I am very disappointed by their conduct. The only possible explanation I can think of is that there has been animosity between them and my dad over the years and that they are taking it out on me BB - thanks for that. I'll take a look |
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there's one other explanation and that's that she does all the work and is the point of contact, with you and your uncle just collecting the rent and therefore she feels her actions are justified, and also that she deserves more from the arrangement which is why she wants to buy you out.
of course, that sort of thing is usually accounted for by fees and expenses for the director in a partnership. |
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Agree to sell your share of the property.. At YOUR asking price.
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20 Jan 05 | Topic/replies: 17,846 | Blogger: DStyle's blog there's one other explanation and that's that she does all the work and is the point of contact, with you and your uncle just collecting the rent and therefore she feels her actions are justified, and also that she deserves more from the arrangement which is why she wants to buy you out. Yes, this is what she has said and I do understand this point which is why I've taken a soft line until now and I wouldn't object if she took a larger slice of the rent. On the other hand, she hasn't contacted me until Sep. Maybe the arrangement has suited her in so much as she has been able to manipulate the situation. |
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You left it three weeks, so that she would be wound up. Should have told her as soon as you decided not to sell.
Seems their is anomosity even before this disagreement. Agree to abide by some independent valuation and then sell for peace of mind |
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*there
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Brendan/John - they are not offering me this option
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