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Gents - I would really appreciate your ideas or advice on this...
Gents - I would really appreciate your ideas or advice on this...
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Replies: 143
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dont sell then, simples. You have to be "reasonable" as do they, For me reasonable in this case is independent valuation. Get a solicitor to handle the letters if dealing with it winds you up / causes grief etc
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If your determined to hang on to the property then get a solicitor NOW. What she has done and how she has gone about it is totally out of order and she wouldnt have a leg to stand on legally. Refurbing without your consent is naughty.
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this could be explained by passive aggressive cowardice.
she's felt unrewarded by the work she's done, not just the renovation but the admin, hasn't has the balls to make a proper arrangement with you and your uncle, which would be entirely normal, and has justified this by her belief that she should own the property exclusively, and now she's not getting her way she's throwing a hissy fit. an opening gambit to avoid any unnecessary silliness could be: i. a third of the current market value of the house. take the mean of three independent valuations minus a third of the cost of the renovations (fully accounted), including a reasonable project management fee minus a respectful value for the administrative duties she's performed as the apparent director of the partnership. this could easily be a case of her wanting appreciation and recognition (she's a woman ffs) more than the money. |
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For me, this is the crux of the matter and I am astonished that I wasn't informed, if not consulted.
She will say that the two of them agreed on the refurb and it had to be done. She admitted (see my OP) that her brother told her not to tell me. Imo, the whole situatuon has been engineered to, at best, back me into a corner and at worst, to con me |
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Previous post was for Jimmy.
In an ideal world, I would like to hang on to the property but given the situation, I would be happy to sell but at a fair price |
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you need an explanation for their not telling you as a starting point.
i'm starting to get the feeling that she feels like she's been taken advantage of and wants something for it. but she's acted inappropriately. before anyone starts wasting money on lawyers would it not be better to talk it through face to face in amicable surroundings, like a meal. or has it already gone too far? |
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DS - probably gone too far.
When I queried the valuation, she sent me an email saying it was impossible to compare with the similar property because the valuation was done prior to the refurb I rang her to say that in that case I couldn't sell at the £250k and may as well pay my share of the refurb and sell at the current value. Her immediate response was "I'll have to take you to court" followed by threats of charging my for her management time etc It was borderline hysteria |
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The valuation in irrelevant, you are entitled to 1/3 of whatever it sells for.
As an aside you may want to factor in it is likely that in 5 years time the property could be worth less. Property prices are falling and you will still be faced with selling at some point. Might be best to sell and not have it on your mind. |
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agree to cooling off period, a month or so, to let things die down, firing off snotty emails to each other is not going to resolve this. The personalities are clashing/rubbing you both up the wrong way.
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Think you might have to be careful here, if they are willing to work together and tell a few porkies to rip you off.
Was there a contract drawn up when you first purchased the house ? if so, what does it say. If not, they could well join together in a court and say you agreed to the refurb against the off set of rent and thats why she hadnt paid you and then say you agreed to the sale, but have now backed out and hence why she is taking you to court. |
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LFC - interesting points.
However, surely the valuation IS relevant because it's not being put on the open market, she already owns 1/3 and wants to buy my 1/3 Surely prices are currently rising. They may fall again when interest rates rise but there is an severe shortage in the supply of property. Also, this property is in London, within a 2 min walk of a tube station (albeit on the outskirts of town). Its value did fall circa 2009/10 but it's now worth more than it was at the peak circa 2008 I would be interested though, to hear your views on property values |
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Shoot her in the face.
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its difficult to say nick, but as it is the property is split 3 ways so will always be
a potential problem. House prices in England are falling (don`t believe the hype). This includes the south and London is not immune. The more people coming into a country and this means London will mean, and it seems counter-intuitive, but it can lead to a fall in property prices. Your aunt may do you a favor if she buys now. |
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House prices in England are falling (don`t believe the hype)
What do you base this on? |
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So by her estimations 83.3k + 20.4k your share would be 90k (if you paid6.8k towards the refurb)
My immediate instinct is Demand to see the Property !!! See if works have been carried out ... and if they're good .. or not ! How much rent does the property Yield .. cash per month / year ? and are there Charges to be paid on top ? The reason you seem to be hanging in there is Property rises & Capital gain ... Yes  Although she seems a right vindictive B"tch ..she needs a bit of a putdown ... imo |
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Lfc1971...I'm interested in your assertion that house prices in the South of England are falling. I'm not disagreeing with you but I'm curious to hear you expand on it with facts and/or anecdotal evidence?
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and sorry ofcourse you are right the valuation is relevant if it is not being put on
the market. |
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I agree with Nick @ 20.38, snap @ 20.39
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If the Yield is Low ... Haggle her for your 90k ...
then let her Tyres down gently  |
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Tell her you are charging interest at the RPI on the rent due to you which she failed to pay you. Theres no reason for her not having paid this to you if the initial agreement was that rent would be split 3 ways. Whereas she has only just told you about the refurb and shouldn't have gone ahead with it until you consented.
What kind of refurb was it? Was it just updating or work that was necessary under your duties as landlords? |
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She has told me that the kitchen and bathroom were gutted and replaced. Not sure if there was any other work done.
Maybe I'm out of touch but I was surprised when she told me it came to over £20k |
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where is it London i assume ?
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dizzydavid1 lONDON prices and certain small parts of the south east are skewing the figures
but London is not as important as it seems, the south east will have to follow the rest of the country. |
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the thing is will she Ever want to sell it .. and when .. ask her !
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Thanks Lfc, so are you saying that , at the moment, prices in London and the South East are not falling?
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I am not sure i believe what i read about London
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I london property rises in value by 200,000 but 10 loose value in the south say by
5000. Are prices falling or rising? This is how they mislead |
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm inclined to agree with you on that Lfc. Here's a few pieces of recent anecdotal evidence, which show two very different sides of the coin. A friend of mine recently sold above asking price, it went to sealed bids. A neighbour of mine has had his house on the market for months, reduced the price once, still not much interest as far as I'm aware. Similarly 2 neighbours of my parents have been on for many months now at what I consider to be ludicrous prices and are not getting very far. I think many Londoners do believe the hype and get so greedy that they price themselves out of a deal.
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Yes i agree, i have seen houses sitting unsold for more than a year and longer,
when they are at the correct value it shoulld take about 6 weeks to find a buyer |
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Interesting.
Of course, all properties' sales prices can be found on Zoopla and other sites |
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Zoopla ... are you serious !!!
!!! |
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McM - the valuations may be open to question but aren't the sales prices factual?
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Offer to buy her and bro out for £270k
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you should have responded more quickly - 3 weeks is just ignorant unless you had a genuine excuse
However, if you bought equal shares and your name is on the title deeds you can afford to sit tight and weigh things up, the property isn't going anywhere! Qu: did the flat require a refurb? did you ever look around the place before the refurb? It's unusual to stick a 20K refurb into a rental property because it'll get hammered by the tenants. Also the spend ratio of 20K on a 250K flat is way over the top imo - 10K on a property of that value is plenty. Another point. There is no such thing as project managing a kitchen and bathroom refurb. FFS you get a quote for the job from a contractor and let them get on with it. Grand Designs this aint. All you have to do is make a brew every now and again if you're around, otherwise just give them the keys and let them get on with it. BTL is a business and you all should be submitting tax returns. Necessary Refurb costs can be included in the P & L so it would have been in her interest to have kept all receipts for works carried out. You need to take a bit of control of the situation. Tell her you WANT to see the invoices for the refurb and receipts to show they have been paid - you can't take her word for it - she could have paid a cowboy 5K cash for all you know! Then and only then, get 3 valuations (and get involved by phoning the agents yourself). With a tenant in situ this may be difficult as they may not agree to EA's wondering around a property they are paying rent for!. Is she doesn't agree to this then I'd call her bluff and let her (try) and take you to court. |
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If you want Factal sale prices go to rightmove !
Zoople are just scam artists .. plus any property bought below market price won't be shown anyway ! |
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Factual
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Emden - thanks.
I take the three week thing on board. I guess it was partly because I wanted to gain the maximum possible time to make a decsion and partly because I felt I was being bullied and was in no mood to jump through hoops. Our names are on the title deeds but we didn't buy the flat - it was inherited. Did the flat require a refurb? I don't know. She says it had to be done and i believe her but as I have said, £20k seems a bit much. I will take control in terms of asking to see invoices etc but as I have said, she doesn't want to buy on the basis of a current valuation |
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Nick can you say what the flat rents for ?
If it's just investment you want look outside of London .. you could own a nice flat of your own for 90k |
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About £1300 pcm currently. Before the refurb, £890
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That's gross; before agent's fees, ground rent etc
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