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Media reporting of Shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman

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By:

Clungehungry When: 23 Mar 12 23:38

Or this new English.

By:

inner city sumo When: 23 Mar 12 23:46

Helissio
Date Joined: 06 Jan 02 Add contact | Send message
When: 23 Mar 12 19:47 Joined: Date Joined: 06 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 1,563 | Blogger: Helissio's blog
Just to add to this:

trayvon is 6ft3 high school football player.

Zimmerman is 5ft3 and overweight

In the police report you've posted it says Trayvon Martin is 6 foot and 11st, 6lbs.
It says Zimmerman is 5ft 9ins and his weight is not given.

By:

Clungehungry When: 23 Mar 12 23:48

oof!

By:

tobermory When: 23 Mar 12 23:55

Mar 23, 2012 -- 11:21PM, Helissio wrote:

In Britain Tony Martin shot and killed a teenage burglar who was running away. He ended up doing 1 year in jail.I would say that is much worse than shooting someone who is in the middle of beating you up!

Absurd comparison. Tony Martin was minding his own business, the situation was initiated by the burglar, completely the opposite here .If you start a fight with an innocent person how the fk do you think you have the right to shoot them dead when the fight don't go your way

By:

Helissio When: 23 Mar 12 23:57

Mar 23, 2012 -- 11:46PM, inner city sumo wrote:

Helissio Date Joined: 06 Jan 02 Add contact | Send message When: 23 Mar 12 19:47 Joined: Date Joined: 06 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 1,563 | Blogger: Helissio's blog Just to add to this:trayvon is 6ft3 high school football player.Zimmerman is 5ft3 and overweight In the police report you've posted it says Trayvon Martin is 6 foot and 11st, 6lbs.It says Zimmerman is 5ft 9ins and his weight is not given.

My mistake. I got my heights from http://sparrowchat.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-innocent-of-racist-hate-crime/

But obviously the police report is going to be a better source.

By:

Helissio When: 23 Mar 12 23:59

Also

Trayvon was 6-foot-3, 140 pounds, a former Optimist League football player with a narrow frame

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/v-fullstory/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html#storylink=cpy

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:02

Mar 23, 2012 -- 11:55PM, tobermory wrote:

Mar 23, 2012 -- 10:21PM, Helissio wrote:In Britain Tony Martin shot and killed a teenage burglar who was running away. He ended up doing 1 year in jail.I would say that is much worse than shooting someone who is in the middle of beating you up!Absurd comparison. Tony Martin was minding his own business, the situation was initiated by the burglar, completely the opposite here .If you start a fight with an innocent person how the fk do you think you have the right to shoot them dead when the fight don't go your way

There is no evidence either way on who threw the first punch. Following and confronting someone does not mean you deserve to be beaten up!

By:

tobermory When: 24 Mar 12 00:06

It means you are harassing and intimidating them .

Re the case of the British Tourists there is no comparison at all. It would only compare if the shooter had claimed he was acting im self defence and the police had accepted it and brought no charges.

By:

Clungehungry When: 24 Mar 12 00:06

No evidence...or no evidence you know of? Big difference.

I'd suggest that the media and politicians may well be guilty of naivety and in some cases bias, but you're way, way ahead of them!

By:

inner city sumo When: 24 Mar 12 00:09

Whereas walking through the streets with a can of soda and bag of skittles means you deserve to be shot?

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:12

Mar 24, 2012 -- 12:09AM, inner city sumo wrote:

Whereas walking through the streets with a can of soda and bag of skittles means you deserve to be shot?

No - he was on top of Zimmermann beating him up when he got shot.

By:

inner city sumo When: 24 Mar 12 00:19

If you're the first aggressor, if you are pursuing, you cannot avail yourself of this self-defense claim," she said.

Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who was the prime House sponsor of the legislation, also weighed in on such a position.

"Nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront," he said.

By:

tobermory When: 24 Mar 12 00:20

And why was Zimmerman anywhere near him?

If someone follows you for hundreds of yards when you are not doing anything wrong it is understandable that you would feel threatened and that the person is intending you harm, so he was entitled to defend himself .

By:

kincsem When: 24 Mar 12 00:20

Helissio says the shooter was 5'3" and the victim 6'3".
The incident report says 5'9" and 6'0". The truth is getting bent a little. There is no mention of a struggle in the report, just what they found.

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:24

Mar 24, 2012 -- 12:20AM, kincsem wrote:

Helissio says the shooter was 5'3" and the victim 6'3".The incident report says 5'9" and 6'0". The truth is getting bent a little. There is no mention of a struggle in the report, just what they found.

evidence that Zimmerman was acting in self defense!

:

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-kille...

By:

inner city sumo When: 24 Mar 12 00:25

That isn't self defence!

"Nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront,"

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:27

Mar 24, 2012 -- 12:25AM, inner city sumo wrote:

That isn't self defence!"Nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront,"

The point is Zimmerman found himself on the ground with Trayvon on top of him and beating him (as per witness statement)

In that position, does he have the right to use a gun with lethal force?

By:

tobermory When: 24 Mar 12 00:29

By:

inner city sumo When: 24 Mar 12 00:29

No he doesn't. The law is pretty clear on it. He pursued, he has no defence.

By:

kincsem When: 24 Mar 12 00:32

What is in the report is what Zimmerman said "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me".

Now that is what he told the police. We do not know if he said that at the time. If there is a witness statement (not Zimmerman's own words) please show me.

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:33

I think he does in the situation he found himself in (on the ground and getting beaten up). You disagree. Lets see what the laws of Florida say.

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:34

Mar 24, 2012 -- 12:32AM, kincsem wrote:

What is in the report is what Zimmerman said "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me".Now that is what he told the police. We do not know if he said that at the time. If there is a witness statement (not Zimmerman's own words) please show me.

Go here:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/
022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

By:

tobermory When: 24 Mar 12 00:35

So if someone mugged someone and the victim fought back and was beating up the mugger, you'd think it was ok for the mugger to shoot the guy dead

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:37

Your comparing Zimmerman to a mugger?

By:

kincsem When: 24 Mar 12 00:39

• Initial police reports never mentioned that Zimmerman had a bloody nose or a wet shirt that showed evidence of a struggle.

• Police said witness statements supported Zimmerman’s account. But several of the witnesses expressed surprise, telling The Herald that they reported hearing someone crying for help just before a shot ended the cries.

By:

tobermory When: 24 Mar 12 00:41

Yeah, he may, in his own mind, have been the good guy, but from Trayvon's point of view he was someone threatening him for no reason at all.

Zimmerman initiated the situation, thats where you have to start from.

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:44

Mar 24, 2012 -- 12:41AM, tobermory wrote:

Yeah, he may, in his own mind, have been the good guy, but from Trayvon's point of view he was someone threatening him for no reason at all.Zimmerman initiated the situation, thats where you have to start from.

Mugging someone is against the law.

Did Zimmerman's initiation equate to an illegal act?

I suggest you start from the first illegal act - maybe someone beating someone up?

By:

kincsem When: 24 Mar 12 00:46

ABC News is now reporting that, after George Zimmerman shot and killed 17 year old Martin, he told police that he screamed for help before shooting Martin. However, witnesses contradicted Zimmerman’s statement and said that it was the teen, not Zimmerman, who screamed for help.

But when at least one witness told the responding officers that it was the teen who screamed for help, and not Zimmerman, the witness account was “corrected” by police.

By:

tobermory When: 24 Mar 12 00:49

Harassment is illegal yeah . But the main point of what Zimmerman is doing is how it would be perceived by Trayvon.

Walking at night and being aware someone is behind you, looking again a hundred yards later and they are still there, going down side streets and they are still behind you . Anyone would find that alarming and be very concerned that this person has bad intentions towards them.

By:

inner city sumo When: 24 Mar 12 00:49

The first illegal act is the pursuit and intimidation. If the cops were in a car and saw one bloke chasing another they would get involved.

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 00:54

Harassment, pursuit and intimidation? It will be interesting to see if Zimmermann will be charged with these offences.

By:

tobermory When: 24 Mar 12 01:01

You don't think Zimmerman was doing anything wrong?

By:

PatraTheCat When: 24 Mar 12 01:14

I have to say that it seems ridiculous that this didn't even get to trial. I could understand if Zimmerman got off due to reasonable doubt, but surely he should go to court at least.

However, on this forum reasonable doubt should work the other way imo. There just doesn't seem to be enough evidence to say that Zimmerman had a good reason to shoot the guy dead. Why didn't he show him the gun before he started getting beaten up? He can't have been surprised as he was the one doing the following. A fairly ridiculous chain of events is surely required to explain how he ended up having to shoot him, and while a good lawyer might be able to induce enough reasonable doubt to persuade a jury not to convict, surely a common sense approach, as is supposedly being followed here, should make one think that there should have been a way of not fatally shooting someone doing his shopping.

I think Helissio should have stuck to the media bias element, personally.

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 01:21

Mar 24, 2012 -- 1:01AM, tobermory wrote:

You don't think Zimmerman was doing anything wrong?

I dont think he was doing anything illegal as far as I can understand.

By:

inner city sumo When: 24 Mar 12 01:24

Where do you live Helissio?

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 01:25

Are you going to come round? I dont do neigbourhood watch!

By:

inner city sumo When: 24 Mar 12 01:31

No, just wondered what country you're in, because your views on the rights of people to go about their business without harrassment/stalking/intimidation would suggest you're probably not in UK or North America.

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 01:32

I am not a lawyer but I would suggest that nothing that happened before the fight (as none of it was illegal) matters in the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman. Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and beating him. Zimmerman has the right to defend himself with a gun under Florida law.

By:

Helissio When: 24 Mar 12 01:32

Mar 24, 2012 -- 1:31AM, inner city sumo wrote:

No, just wondered what country you're in, because your views on the rights of people to go about their business without harrassment/stalking/intimidation would suggest you're probably not in UK or North America.

So do you think Zimmerman will be charged with harrassment/stalking/intimidation ?

By:

inner city sumo When: 24 Mar 12 01:44

Zimmerman has the right to defend himself with a gun under Florida law.

But he didn't defend himself with a gun. As soon as he pursued him he wasn't defending himself.

So do you think Zimmerman will be charged with harrassment/stalking/intimidation ?

I suspect they will be focusing more on the bit where an unarmed kid was shot by the bloke who chased him through the streets rather than the intimidation bit per se.