Usain Bolt v Mo Farah

Much less for me. Certainly not over 600 metres.

Would be close over 10cm too.

Mohammed Farah probably has 10cm and Mr Bolt has 8inches more.

Farah could probably run about 1:46 for 800 where's Bolt would have no chance at that.  Obviously at 400m it's Bolt's but sprinters really are useless at over distance where's elite distances runners can sprint pretty damn well considering.  Bolt would be done by 600 at best imo.  I reckon 550m would be where they're level.

farah did the last lap of the 10000m at the world champs in 53s - and came second. 

What do you reckon they could both do 400m in?  MF=48, UB=46??

in 1996, Donovan Bailey won the 100m and JOhnson the 200m.  They had a big 150m race soon after. Bailey won because I think MJ pulled up (when it looked like he was gonna lose apparently).  There was talk of Bolt taking on Bekele over 600m after beijing but it never happened.  I suppose the purists wouldn't like it but straight after the olympics, with a whole year to go before their next big championship why not?  they'd both've made loads of money, and would be a good way of getting the sport out there and perhaps increase its popularity in one go - I'd defo be interested in watching it.

Where would John Virgo figure in that race?

I'll agree with Rob on this thread

They should have loads of match races over all sorts of distances. TV viewing figures would be excellent.

I wonder whether he'll do 9.4 in London?

seriously, if they raced over 550m I wonder where JV would have to start to make it 2/1 the field?  Ath 30m mark.  reckon theyd do 550m in 70s?  could JV run 275m in 70s.  reckon he could so he'll have to start at the 250m mark - 300m in 70s would be a fair race.  get it on - if you don't do it sky will.

perFECT.

bolt has done 45 sec for 400m





if bolt raced farah over 800m , bolt could pace himself off farah
and i reckon would beat him,

an 800 time trial, and i'd back farah




i saw brendan foster race geoff capes over 200m

geoff was handicapped out of that due to carrying 12 budgerigars

Well i don't really know tbh, that's why i think it'd be great fun to have a race like this.  imo.  in fact i'd love to see usain have a go at th 400m or long jump or something - no idea how hard it'd be to do.

The last 80m of a 400 m is a real man-killer.
I'd love to see the contest start with a haggle - I could see you at 800, well I could do ye over 200, 700 then, 300 I'd still be laughing, 600 you wouldn't finish, 400 easy for me, 500 then, deal.
Heck, get Noel Edmonds to supervise the negotiations, then outside to the track for the action. I agree with MB - it'd be a good contest.

Bolt could NEVER hang with Farah for an 800.  Even if he just tucked in behind him and let Farah lead him round.  It would be a jog for 400 but the wheels would come off very quickly between 450-500 at the pace Farah would be running.  Sprinters muscles are fast-twitch which means they can generate huge amounts of force for a very short time, they're hopeless when it comes to a sustained effort.  Bolt says even the 400m is too far for him and that he hates it, another lap and he'd be crying!

The talk of Bolt vs Bekele after the last Olympics was a great idea I thought.  The media would say Bolt would walk it but I think if it was a 600 Bekele would take it, despite being a 10000m runner he can still run 400m in 49 seconds which isn't exactly slow.  It would be a good idea for promoting the sport though and a nice pay day for those involved!

its a bit like a horse in the derby

the trainer says afterwards, it didnt stay

well it wont stay if it hasnt been trained to run
the distance

bolts training is to maintain his fast twich mussels

if he wanted to run 800 and trained for it he would easily see off farah, but  he'd never break an 100m record again

I have never been an usain bolt fan, but that changed after seeing his adverts for virgin and jamaica.  I have even caught myself rewinding the adverts, just to see him smile.  I do not fancy him but I love his sense of humour and smile.  Men take note

I would love to see him run against a fit bekele, not farah.  I think farah has not proved he is better than bekele.  He has just taken advantage of the fact that bekele was not competing due to injury.  He also ducked a meeting with him, instead running in a mickey mouse competition instead.

I would also love to see him run hurdles, maybe against dai greene?

110m hurdles v dai greene could be fun

That's not really true Donny.  You can't really change your muscle fibre type, no matter what training you do.  Bolt could run 150 miles a week but he'd still be terrible at anything over 800m.  If he focussed on the 800 he might run a decent time but he'd never be world class at it.  Elite distance runners are much better sprinters than sprinters are distance runners.

Where's Clydebank when you need him?

also throws up Hoy V Cavendish @ what distance would they be equals?
Think Hoy would certainly have the edge up to around 2 miles?
Again & even more so dependent on whether race or time trial as race conditions Hoy could certainly last far longer with drafting & still have the edge.

How about the England rugby team v England football team in a game of cricket, or sumo wrestling tennis players

Cavendish would destroy Hoy in a straight line sprint imo his top speed has been recorded at 78kmph on a flat road, Hoy wouldn't get anywhere near that

Yes but the question is, up to what distance m o m.  Though I am a little confused that Geoff thinks hoy would win up to two miles

Distance is irrelevant in a race IMO because Cav could just sit on his wheel until the final 250m and ride well away.

But he has a whole team to help him in tdf, would it work the same in a one on one?  Also depends on whether it is on the road or in the velodrome.

Like that question. Can someone tweet Cav and ask hm?

a great question



my guess would be 621m

England football team vs Kenyan team at football.
Naturally over 90 minutes England would win
But make it a 9 hour match the Kenyans would win
So there would be a duration point somewhere around 4-5 hrs ( guessing ) where it eould be a 50:50 contest. You couldn't set it up though due to costs.

How about changing the length of a cricket wicket to where you personally would average 100 in test cricket.

About 35 yards for me.

Mom you say distaqnce is irellevant.
Cav could sit on Hoys wheel till last 250m wouldnt work to well if it was a 200 m sprint.
Hoy would annihalate Cavendish in a short pure speed sprint.

Hoy, who is vying with world champion and compatriot Jason Kenny for the sole sprint slot allocated to each nation at the Games, beat Germany’s Maximilian Levy 2-0 in the final of this Olympic test event.

It came a day after he hit a top speed of 78 kmh (48.5 mph) on his way to victory in the keirin and gave Hoy a confidence boost ahead of the April 4-8 world championships in Melbourne where their sprint selection battle will be decided.

On a straight track with a rolling start Cav wins everytime.
A velodrome would obviously be to Hoy's advantage.
Track cycling max speed is based on time spread over a 200m distance (which is how the sprinters qualify)
The world record holder is Kevin Sireau in 9.572 seconds which equates to an average speed of 46.7kph, added in the boost track riders get from banking down the track before they start their flying lap(s) and it is clear that Cav's top sprinting speed clocked at 49kpm would be far too good for them out on the road

Link Geoff?

Cav often beats 180+ others, almost all on pro contracts.
Hoy doesn't beat 180 other riders in a year, and most of them are either amateurs or on state contracts ( so not proper professionals imv ). That and the fact Hoy chickened out of the race that was offered him at the end of the Bran Flakes advert knowing he would get beat outdoors, clinches it for Cav for me. Hoy is very much a specialist.

Cavendish is an endurance rider with a sprint.
Hoy is a pure sprinter all fast twitch fibres
Its irelevant how many riders 180 + Cav beats as 95% of em just dont have the attributes to win a sprint finish hes outspeeding a bunch of endurance riders.

Bongo
20 Aug 2008 – ... the only member of the 14-strong squad to leave the Laoshan velodrome without a medal was Mark Cavendish

So much for being a "pro"

Hoy, Cavendish and Wiggins: who's got the power?

Everything in cycling comes down to the watts that a rider generates with every turn of their wheels. Watts provide the most accurate gauge of how hard you are working; heart rate fluctuates and so does speed. The intensity of effort needed to climb a hill remains the same no matter how fast you ride.

'If you put Chris Hoy in the position that Mark Cavendish is in at the end of a race, Chris would beat him every time,' says Dr David Bailey, a physiologist for British Cycling. 'But if you asked Chris to cycle for four hours beforehand there is no way he would be there.

Its irelevant how many riders 180 + Cav beats as 95% of em just dont have the attributes to win a sprint finish hes outspeeding a bunch of endurance riders.

Fair point - I'll settle for the 9 that do have the attributes. Consider the last stage of the Tour de France, Cav was 1.8-1.9 on here to win that stage. Every team has a sprinter they want to put into position, and Cav was odds-on, despite everything that can go wrong.
Afaik, Hoy is currently odds against to beat one guy at the moment ( Jason Kenny ). Cue the cries of Ho must Go, after the Melbourne contest. Hoy is a specialist, Cav is special.

Not taking the Olympics seriously, that's what pros do; you work for the people who pay your wages.

As for Dr David Bailey - in his position he should be able to put up some numbers for how many kWseconds of energy each could produce in say 10 seconds. Be interesting if the tests have been done.

Cav only entered one event... The Madison with wiggins in 2008 iirc the blame for losing rested largely with wiggins.

If its a case of power & the numbers Hoy wins hands down over a sprint think hes knocked out around 2400 watts in testing.
However alot of Cavs success is attributable to his aerodynamics in the finish.Think he rumored to put out around 1600 watts in a finish.

As a betting proposition the Bolt / Farah race would be best if you just set them off together laned for the first 400m and see how long/far it took Farah to catch him after that.

One thing for sure once Farah has him Bolt aint fighting back - that's why the best drama might be to set it up as a chase rather than a fixed distance.

Where do you rate John Virgo in all that, annie?

great concept of match races at intermediate distances

what about male vs female with a handicap system like greyhound racing, that could be great for punting?

Those numbers don't seem right.
If you could notionally sustain 2400watts for a full hour, you'd end up burning 2065kCal, or about what the average woman burns in a day.
On second thoughts it could be about right as a lot of aerobic events quote 300-500kCal per hour energy burnt.

judorick, you reminded me of when I used to spend every day, a long time ago, going to greyhound meetings and my special love was hackney dog track where I spent many happy hours handicapping the dogs there like you do with horses.  Happy days 

They have nearly all closed now 

V4 Vendetta

Did you mean about the fact that John Virgo was amusing?  I never fancied him though.  A man can be funny but not sexy, just look at the comedians we have had.  Of course there are exceptions like David Allen 

Those were the days when snooker was exciting, I do not watch it now.

alright annie

i am originally from hackney myself, moved over to posh part now (Crouch End), but still miss the old haunts, left good 30 years ago now

What a coincidence, judorick 

It is not like the old days.

Up to about six years ago I visited hackney often to see my dad who had lived there all his life.  The place is now the pits.  How can a borough get worse in forty years?

its very sad

some places are worse than ever even nice gaffs like Ealing shot to pieces FFS

Indoor cycling is a joke sport, lets face it. It was embarrassing to see yer man win SPOTY and get the knighthood, you might as well give it to someone in tiddlywinks.

cav would take a few laps to crank up his top gear, hoy might have gone by then

might be interesting to see hoy on cav's bike and see what he could do ....

Bongo the 2400 watts are but a brief moment in time.
Ive tried a max test on the watt bike & struggled to hit 1100

UCI World Track Cycling Championships 2012
Venue: Hisense Arena, Melbourne 4-8 April
Kenny, 24, earlier needed only two heats of a best-of-three men's sprint semi-final to beat 36-year-old Hoy.

Smug smiles

I think an 800m race would be Evs both of them

Bolt would crush him at anything upto 800m imo

the guy's insanely good he breaks world records & pulls up like a thorough bred

725m sounds like there or thereabouts, maybe < 700.

I think bolt would do OK as he is not carrying a lot of weight like most other sprinters. sprinters do tend to fare badly at the middle distances though.... they take conditioning.

putting 2 runners up against each other away from their specialist zone would be pointless imo .

it's like Andy Murray playing Lionel Messi at Golf

as for Bolt and Farrah i'd record they 'd tie at around 5 meters 

Usain Bolt at even money over 800 metres or less would be the bet of the decade.

MO!

800 metres
Bolt's longest distance on iaaf.org is 400m at 45.28 best.
Farah's shortest distance on iaaf.org is 800m at 108.69 best.
My guess is Bolt cound run 400m in 50 seconds, and continue to 800m in another ~60 seconds.

hmmm i was thinking it could be quite close .. think bolt has the power though and the sheer size of him /length of his legs compared to Mo would be in his favour upto around 500m .. surely he trains at longer ?

Andy Murray for me.

Messi, he's got the better short game.

Bolt at evens for 800m would be the lay of the decade.  Bolt really struggles with 400m, double that and he'd be a mess.  Sprinters are strange beasts, it's easy to think that because he can run 19.2 for 200m and 45 for 400m that going through in 52 would be a jog for him so he could easily run 1:44 for 800.  He could jog a 52 but after 500-600m the wheels would completely fall off.  Sprinters are power/anaerobic monsters, that energy usage really doesn't last very long and when it's gone and the aerobic system takes over they're stuffed. 

As Sebastian Coe said 'Speed hurts, sustained speed kills'.

Chit chat has got the Bolt-Farah match-up sorted and dealt with long ago. Farah takes this one.

Chit chat - predicting the outcome of running events that haven't been thought of, predicting the outcome of trials that haven't happened, and predicting the result of animal vs animal fights that haven't yet occurred.

The forum that is ahead of it's time. Smiles.

tobermory 08 Aug 12 23:06 Joined: 01 Mar 08 | Topic/replies: 34,063 | Blogger: tobermory's blog
I think an 800m race would be Evs both of them
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SlippyBlue 08 Aug 12 23:40 Joined: 11 Jun 12 | Topic/replies: 9,690 | Blogger: SlippyBlue's blog
Usain Bolt at even money over 800 metres or less would be the bet of the decade.


Two forum stalwarts way off the money there.  Farah would, I mean actually definitely would, barring injury, annihilate Bolt over 800m.  It would be an embarassment. He is quicker than coe, cram or ovett ever were over 1500m.