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20 Apr 11
01:15
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14 Sep 04
When tasked with pocketing an object ball that is tight against a rail, most snooker coaches advise aiming to hit the ball and cushion at the same time.
This is usually very bad advice. Does anyone disagree?
This is usually very bad advice. Does anyone disagree?
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Replies: 79
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I don't, but then again I'm useless at snooker.
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Very good answer, sir.
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If they are right tight against the cushion if you're anygood makes them very difficult to miss plus you can put as much side on as you like which actually makes you to be able to do anything with the cueball.
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I disagree. Its good advice. If its a few mm off the cushion - a rail is on a pool table in America! - then its another story.
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You're a brave man...
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Yesterday I disagreed, today I agree.
I haven't got the foggiest but I do know it's generally a good idea to side with PM. |
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.
http://bbc.in/e2ScIr . Ask them. Pokermonster World Snooker Championships - 0 BBC Team - 8(?) Now answer my torque query on t'other thread, thankyou. |
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All angled shots (with the exception of those played with running sidespin instilled in the white) experience a reaction commonly known as throw on the object ball.
Therefore, when any coach advises the contact required for the pot is at a point on the object ball exactly opposite the intended pocket you are receiving bad advice. All angled cut shots must be played slightly thinner to allow for the throw effect. An exception arises if a cuist imparts running sidespin into the cueball, which negates the throw. In these instances aiming for a contact point directly opposite the pocket is most certainly advisable. So, for angled shots along the cushion, unless you impart running sidespin, you should aim to strike the cushion a fraction before the object ball. |
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Good morning Mr Nibbs.
I have answered that specific question several times on the other thread. As it is quite a lengthy explanation and I am using a tiny mobile computer with a miniscule keyboard, please could I respectfully ask you to have a quick read through, sir. Somebody posted up a link to a Youtube clip experiment with sandpaper. It explained the concept very well if you would care to have a look. |
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It looks like the contact point issue might be addressed this afternoon; Steve Davis is trying out one of those laser sight gizmos.
Sadly, of course, most of these devices work on the 'opposite from the pocket' aiming point which, as I have explained above, is often a flawed strategy. |
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Fk knows, good job I work with computers, if I was a snooker pro I'd be living in a cardboard box by now.
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*still be living
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*still be living
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If he was a good coach he wouldn't leave the advice simply at 'hit cushion & ball at same time' though.
Playing these shots with running side & screw/stun helps the pot considerably & this is how any decent play would usually play it. |
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decent player
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Playing the shot with running side only helps a shot along the rail if you hit the cushion first, RM. If you struck the ball and cushion simultaneously with running side instilled in the cueball it would most certainly throw the object ball on and off the cushion, quite possibly causing a miss.
And as to how most decent players would usually tackle the situation? I would say it largely depends where they wish the white to go afterwards. |
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Worked well enuff for me down the years!
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And that's all that really matters, RM.
Believe me though, sir, when I tell you that you must have been hitting the cushion a fraction before the ball if playing with running side. Most good players do this subconsciously. |
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Strangely enough, if position is not a factor, I always find it easier to run balls down the rail with check (outside) sidespin.
Adopting this tactic one may safely hit cushion and colour simultaneously. |
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It looks like Higgins and Lee are both trying to lose the first frame. Some terrible shots being played.
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I always tell the players I coach that potting a ball along the rail is easier when applying running side.
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Do you coach professionally, Tucky?
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I don't hold any licenses, and I don't normally take payment. I just use the lads as practice partners, and give them a few tips along the way. I can't stand practicing on my own, so it's a passable version of symbiosis.
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Very good, sir.
As a coach, I'd be interested to learn if you were aware of the throw effect present in angled cut shots I mentioned above. Most I have spoken to are very surprised to learn such strokes should be aimed thinner than the 'opposite the pocket' approach usually advised. |
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I can't stand practicing on my own
You'll never make it as a Chit Chatter. Some quite interesting moments (a joke for you mathematicians, there) on this thread. 'Throw', I did not know that. I smash the bugger. |
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Agree with tuckyboy.
For an along the cushion shot I prefer a touch of running side and aim slightly behind the object ball. Sometimes works  |
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Running side, aiming slightly behind the object ball, is a very good tactic KC. You haven't fallen into the trap of striking cushion and colour simultaneously.
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mathematician got it Orioles!
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As you say pokermonster, nothing teaches like experience. For most players, it's what works for them that counts - I dare say the throw has been having its influence on my thinking for all these years, without me ever giving much thought to its effect.
I tend to play most shots with side, so the plain ball throw would not affect me as much as more plain ball merchants, I guess. |
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I agree about check side also helping the pot
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I've drawn a rough little sketch for you, Tucky. If you would care to try it out on your students, it proves beyond doubt the existence to cut shot throw.
Set up the balls as shown in the diagram. As indicated, the chain of reds are targeted directly at the far corner pocket. If you were to now play the cueball straight at yellow number 1, the furthermost red would throw somewhere to the region of position X on the side rail. Most good players are aware of this reaction. However, what surprises most, is if you now remove all the reds and play the stroke again. I think we can agree that yellow number 2 would strike yellow number 3 at a point directly opposite the target pocket. Would yellow number 3 therefore be potted? No. It throws to point X just as before. This is proof positive throw exists on cut shots and you should not aim for the point on the object ball directly opposite the pocket despite what most snooker coaches insist upon. [img]http://community.cdnbf.net/community.betfair.com/user/pokermonster/pokermonsters_gallery/588e98f1d7f863b2fdde9e36f206b5a0.jpg?v=223427[/img] |
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Good man, Ivor [;)]
My pure and applied maths A level was not wasted |
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If you were to remove all the balls in the above diagram except the number 3 yellow and the cueball, attempting to pot the colour using right hand sidespin would cause the yellow to throw even further wide of its intended pocket.
Left hand side, if the position allows it, would be your friend here. |
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Is this a similar phenomenon that means that when two balls are lined up as a plant, when you would expect the second ball to follow a specific path, striking the object ball in different places will produce different results as regards the second ball?
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It is exactly the same, Tucky. Most are very surprised to learn the effect is also present in all angled shots, not just touching-ball plants.
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It stands to reason, thinking about it. A most informative thread, good work pokermonster.
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Thank you, sir. Glad you found it interesting.
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I could talk about snooker all day. I absolutely love the game. Fortunately I have lately been able to devote a little bit of time to restoring my game to its former potency, and am quite pleased with the results so far.
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Good luck, Tucky.
If you get a spare hour sometime you might find my thread concerning topspin (see further down the main page) quite an interesting read. I'm off out for dinner now, sir, so I'll bid you good evening. |