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ALso Sunset you said earlier atheists believe the universe was formed randomly,thats tarring us all with one brush,I for one believe it was designed
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Have not read the whole thread, but the world should be a very chaotic place, however it is not. The sun rises each day, the tide ebbs and flows, what a great place God has given us.
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Although it is plain to see some peoples belief systems need changing.
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Sunset Cristo 30 Apr 01:00
J2BLUE. 29 Apr 23:33 Nothing has been rammed down my throat. My family aren't religious. I couldn't tell you if my own family believed to be honest. It's a personal thing. It is definitely something I found on my own This is a common delusion. It's actually the other way round. Many come to believe in God when they get older for example two famous atheists. C.S Lewis and Anthony Flew. I'm 22. |
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You have obviously never heard of Statistical analysis. People use this all the time to make deductions about what happened in the past and what happens in the future. If I keep getting a Royal flush when playing Poker wouldn't you think it was designed that way or would you think I was just being incredibly lucky. Of course you would believe the former and rightly so. So why do you not apply the same logic to the the big bang?
yeah but to get the royal flush you need a pack of cards to start with! Again the 1st law of thermodynamics, you claim this whole universe energy and matter came from nothing. so how do you get a royal flush without a pack of cards? And even getting 10000000000 royal flushes on the spin doesnt even come close to the mathematics required for the universe to exist. Oh and Cristo that quote you asked earlier was albert Einstein. |
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One of the pro-God arguments goes like this:
1) the Big Bang is how the Universe started 2) the BB made something out of nothing (ie before it there was nowt, after an exploding universe) 3) that contravenes the laws of thermodynamics 4) therefore some magical entity must have been the cause 5) QED God exists In case the problems with this chain of assertions need pointing out (I don't think they do but to be safe) here goes: 1) BB is current best guess by consensus for the origin of the Universe but the history of science is littered with majority views being overturned. For now let's assume it is true. 2) seems to be the case claimed by BB proponents. 3) does it? Perhaps the laws of thermodynamics came into existence simultaneously with the Universe but did not hold sway prior to the moment of origin. In which case this criticism is invalid. Also some physicists have suggested the BB is the otherside of a Black Hole - if true it may not contradict said laws. 4) errr no. Because I don't know what caused soething doesn't mean I must assume a divine being at work. Maybe I just keep an open mind and await further evidence. 5) ditto |
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The idea that the earth is analagous to a fishtank being maintained by some outside force is laughable. The reason climactic conditions on this planet are so perfect is because that is the only was that evolution can work. New species are hardly going to flourish and thrive in conditions completely unsuitable to themselves.
There is no logical arguement for a belief in god and anyone claiming otherwise is a fantasist. Of course there is no evidence that a divine power does not exist, but that is no reason fo belief. I often wonder, what make a religious person so sure that their religion is the right one? There are dozens of religions globally, and over time there have surely been thousands. How can one individual at a specific point in time be sure they are believing in the right god? |
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Here's the genius that was Carl Sagan on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E-_DdX8Ke0 Watch this. It really is good. :) |
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People need to stop thinking that it is essential to be a card carrying member of a religion to believe in God. This thread is about believing in a higher power, not about believing every word in a book.
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sunset you have done remarkably well to keep answering ..its very hard work as ive found in the past.
You obviously realise from ur posts that its like beating your head against a brick wall, or casting your pearls before swine!! 'You cannot come to the father except he draw you,' no amount of reasoned argument will bring you any closer to the truth unless you are spiritually awakened, and yet, mankind has been given free will, God has already given you all you need if youre truly looking for answers, not just in the bible but in the world aroudn you, the miracles surrounding you on very side, youd have to be blind not to see the hand of God in everything, apart from, that is, when mankind ruins things with his selfishness, greed, etc. |
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youd have to be blind not to see the hand of God in everything, apart from, that is, when mankind ruins things with his selfishness, greed, etc.
class! translation... God does all the good, man does all the bad Brilliant stuff. |
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They drew a circle that kept me out,
But I and God were bound to win, We drew a circle that kept them in. |
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For if you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading.
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:^0 at people who believe in god!
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How long can you search the outer world for fools gold.
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I think it is important to distinguish between deism and a theism. Deism is the belief that some sort of supreme creator kick-started the Universe and has not interfered since (i.e. it is compatible with the theory of evolution). This sounds perfectly plausible to me although it still leaves the question of who is this creator, who created him, etc. Perhaps there is an infinite chain of Universes that created a Universe within that Universe? Who knows. I don't think we will ever come close to answering this.
Theism is the belief in a God who specifically created Man and all the other thousands of species on Earth, and takes an interest in our activities, answering prayers, performing miracles etc. This seems highly implausible to me and it's quite shocking really that there is still widespread belief some 150 years since Darwin blew 'intelligent design' out of the water. I tend to agree with the above comment about not forcing beliefs on other people; which is why I dismay at children being taught religion as FACT at a young age. I certainly will not be telling my kids that there definitely is no god; but when they are older and the subject arises, I will tell them my opinion and the logic that led me to that conclusion. Whether they choose to agree will be their choice (but I confess I will be disappointed if they become religious). |
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ttt
Enjoying this thread. I like discussing this when there are sensible people on both sides. |
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how do you consolidate prayer and infalibility?
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It's impossible to say whether God does or doesn't exist.hth
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J2 blue what made u gofor Christianity in particular if you dont mind me asking?Did you consider any other faiths?
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Anyone care to explain the link below ?
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/lib ... orrupt.htm Thats my proof that God exists. |
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Viking I never said I was a Christian.
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Oh sorry,i thought you had said it on the post where you said you were 22.How did your belief in God come about?Are you of a particular faith or do you work off your own experiences?
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I can't be arsed reading through this, has Jesus dropped in yet?
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Yep been & gone .. you missed him !
You 'll stay Banished at Micro stakes with canaryboy for eternity :( |
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I get blessed with a decent family holiday on low stakes thanks to poker and I don't pray to a higher being.
Something's not right, think of all those people that pray for luck in games and never get it. Yet when they get that luck, its a devine intervention. |
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When you understand and learn HOW beliefs are created, you will know WHY you beieve/disbelieve in God.
Unless you do this you will always have ignorance and think your beliefs make something real or conversely, unreal. |
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greenviking 30 Apr 22:23
Oh sorry,i thought you had said it on the post where you said you were 22.How did your belief in God come about?Are you of a particular faith or do you work off your own experiences? I don't really know to be honest with you. I have just felt for a long time that there is a God. I've had a brief period of 'there is no God, look at my life. If there was a God this and that wouldn't happen' etc but when I stopped to think about it, I have nothing to complain about. It was my personal choices and failings making my life bad (i'm not a druggie or anything terrible ;) ). I can't explain it but I just believe. It may sound ridiculous to some but who cares? I'm not forcing them to believe. I never pray to ask for a winning bet or anything like that :p I would say 95% of my prayers (I rarely pray) are for other people. I may ask for help with something occasionally. Not sure if any of that is relevant or answers your question. |
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Good post, Kinght Rider.
My 7-year-old son asked me this question this very afternoon: "Where did the first person come from?" I said something along these lines: "Well, nobody knows for sure. But there there are basically two main stories that people believe. The first is that God (he goes to a CE school as it's good and local, so he knows a little about the Christian version of God) or gods made the first person. The second story is that the first person came from apes by a process of gradual change we call evolution." It's a tricky question but I think I was fair. |
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Yes that answers it for me.I went the other way believed until I was about 14 or so,was raised by an atheist father and an Irish catholic mother.When I stopped and thought about it none of it would sit with me,I just cant fathom how there could be a God/Gods as the faiths describe him/them.Although I do believe the universe was designed,by what I dont know.I agree any bad stuff in our lives is by and large our own doing
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but... where do 'your' beliefs come from?
Answer that. And you will answer more than you thought. |
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They are a result of my thoughts,which I suppose are a result of my experiences
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Yes.
Your beliefs come from your experiences. Real OR imagined. Neither of us know for sure which is which. Your interpretation of those experiences based on your thoughts at the time helped create your beliefs. It does not matter whether something is true or false, if you believe it... it is true. And you/we will form other thoughts to support the primary belief. We all do this. We are usually uncomfortable when someone challenges our beliefs but we should remember, this happens when their own beliefs have been challenged and they, themselves feel uncomfortable about the strength of their own beliefs. beliefs are powerful motivators because people behave as if they are factual when very often they are not. |
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whether god exists or not, religion has a lot to answer for.
Religion has turned father against son,mother against daughter. We are still to this day fighting in the name of god. Tell me that this is righteous and holy? |
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J2BLUE. 30 Apr 21:47
I would say 95% of my prayers (I rarely pray) are for other people. I may ask for help with something occasionally. Do you believe in a divine plan? |
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Preconditioned....by life parents media etc etc......but we were born pure....truth is the only way forward...thoughts are real things....they evoke feelings.....resulting in actions....tho we can control our mind and thoughts.... people just dont ...they act on the emotion often derived from EGO
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Listen to the heart it never lies, it has no EGO.
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Hello. Yes, I believe in god.
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Lots do because it makes them part of the community. That or the community will kill them.
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The only infinite thing about us is DESIRE.
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