well done lmfao.
an inspiration to many if they actually appreciated what you had done instead of wanting you to give them some of your spare cash coz by your own definition you dont need it as much now lol

I wasnt really taking sides, I just tried to expand on what I thought the OP meant, which does have some rational to it in the deeper workings of things. Though it will not happen because we are too far down the line of investing in our homes.

The simple calculation that states property will always go up in the long run is not all it seems. Firstly compare it against inflation and in the long run it is on track. Add to this e cost of owning the asset and you can be looking at a loss when comapared to inflation. Secondly if you take two examples, (these are off the top of my head so dont correct me on exact number, the principle remains) :

I buy a house for £40K in 1988, and keep it until today. It is now worth 100K. 250% ROI gross @ 12.5% annualised.

I buy a house in 1994 for £40K and keep it until today. It is now worth 120K. 300% ROI gross @ 20% annualised.

There are other more subtle things to include such as operating costs, opportunity to invest elsewhere when not in the market as well as the opportunity to leverage, (which is all but gone for now).

Simply buying and holding is not optimal imo.


In addition to this, it is my strong belief, (I have said it on these boards doens of times), that landlords will be subject to a lot of tax and regulation in the coming years/governments. Hence my intention to pursue foreign properties. There are lots of hints at this in various pieces of journalism and politcal chat but it is all hearsay and conjecture. My gut feeling says that we now have a small army of individual landlords creating wealth that is not in the broad economy and is subject to a lot of cash free transactions. All this time he pension pots are being exposed as a sham, and the people opting out are not helping the situation, (good luck to them for it though). In the end any government chancellor has to say the simple question of "where is the money and how do I tax it". Can you imagine the joy on his face when he realises that it is a fixed imobile asset that cannot be hidden. It has to come I think :-(

If your not already up to speed look up remediation tax, (and understand it), before you get into any developments. This is where the money has been fo rhte last ten years. Not sure it will survive the next governments budget though.

Dealem, I am not being particularly being nasty to you.

If I had met you at a bar, I'd buy you a drink, not that I'm gay of course

statements such as

i don't care for unfortunates , or wasters. but if they are happy then thats nice.

you don't care for unfortunates? what if you had an unfortunate kid but the government did nothing about it? is that what you want?, then I would take it that you prefer Britain contribute nothing to the late Haiti earthquake at all? because you don't care?

lets not turn this to policies coz A) i wont win, B) you won't change me c) this is a property thread lol

oh it turns to politics am afraid

PS I have met Dealem on a couple of occasions and he is pretty much as he says he is. he is shyte at flipping for beers though ;-)

So you agree lmfao? See what a difference 1985 makes?

Though your figures of growth are above average, which is possible area dependent. It is all about the timing. Take the extreme example. If you bought a house in June 2007 would you now be in profit or loss? If I bought next door to you this year, would you ever catch up in % roi terms?

If it was a car people would see it so clearly. Becasue you bring in the cost of rent vs loan people become emotive over it. I am not talking about owner buying here, I am talking about investing.

i think if comparing renting v buying over long term, timing is almost irrelevent

of course there are better or worse time. eg, mortgages are at an all time low at the mo, unless you got one when the companies must have realised that there might be some sort of massive interst reduction so buil;t in capped discounts....

i pay 93£ a month for 90k. means nothing unless you compare it but to rent out my little flat it would cost me 600£. the same mortgage now would probably cost you 250-350 off the tiop of my head.(interst only)

i know a small saving long term but on a bigger home with larger deal it would be far bigger. Homes are appreciating also, which is very important if my home appreciated more than 1100£ this year, i am living for free...
the one bit of luck i had was managing to scrape through a 30k top up weeks before the crash became mainstream..

dealem £93 a month on a 90k house? please state what deposit you made

dont confuse people on here

my lovely ex got a 95k mortgage but paying £500 a month for 35 years

i think if comparing renting v buying over long term, timing is almost irrelevent

I completely agree.

The trouble is the man in the street starts with this nugget and then decides that he is not the owner of an investment asset. This is ok for some when the market is ripe and allows for leverage. Unfortunately the masses get confused and start to think that the single property that they own is suddenly "creating wealth".

and i never stated it was a 90k house or flat. i just stated the loan.

i don't care for unfortunates

i dont. and i hope i dont end up in that situation, but i have the unique view that we should be able to abort up to 3 months after the birth.

the world the way it is is making too many unpure genes. we should still be fighting the cold and each other for mating rights... more and more unsuitable people breed each year and it only gets worse.

too many bad eyes, headaches and other unatural flaws. if it was animals we would pay to get rid of the chance to polute a prime recipient...

i fail to see that how ...

well ok you got a loan of 90k for £93 a month? is this over 200 years?

PF, likely a tracker at a 0.75% over base. good times for these loans just now.

was just gonna say isnt "just now" is was just BEFORE...

and like i said, probably the only stroke of luck getting that through b4 the crash that i have had in the last 36 months barring the last 4 or 5 months...

the tide has turned for me hopefully...

it was £450. get over it... low rates mean low costs.

to let you know, I pay £150 a month, 2 bedroom apt, got 17 years to go!

lol never mind. Always a new angle on the horizon.

When I started work I was fortunate enough to be taken under the wong of a very wise man. One of the many things he told me, that I never understood right off, was that there is always a trend for making money. Spot the trend and get in early and any fool will profit.

This was in the era of windfall payments from building societies and the like. Next was the dotcom era, next was the housing boom, then the onine gambling and trading platforms, (and maybe Ebay too). More recently we have shorting and commodities but these will never get the mass appeals of previous. Just now the trend seems to be in claims for finance. On one hand this has the potential to involve the mass public that is required to create a bubble. On the other hand it would be catastrophic to the wider economy. The former says to me that it will not happen. So where is the next bubble/trend that is inclusive to the masses?

No rush but if you can let me know before bedtime please ;-)

I'd wait until next governement get in and then take stock. Also as said above look into remediation tax.

develop them for who?

ones on government grants? the rich who rely on government grants for developments?

anyway thats for another night

night night