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dealem, completely disagree
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rease, the only point i was trying to make is that some people dont want to be tied ionto a property...
i agree wholeheartedly that it is better to buy a house. if you dont want to live there then rent it out(better to have more than one, then you can absorb problems more easily) buti do know for a fact that some pepople dont want to buy. it is as simple as that. if they were left a house they would probably sell it and rent lol anyway, this is a different argument. it would be dead money to me. |
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dealem, I think you might find that most people tend to stay where they are for the rest of their life
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we may disagree PF, but i am not saying you are wrong (in this case) just we think differently.
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meant to add, it is a myth that houses always make money in the long run. it all depends on timing. some people, (in certain windows), gain, others, (in other windows) lose. If you compare the net effect of these two groups racing each other versus inflation then it is a net loss.
Owning vs rent id often cheaper in the long run though. In that respect we refer back to OP who stated that if everyone could build a house for £20K* we could all have higher disposable incomes. * this is the same as some other countries where land is ample and cheap. |
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i don't know the stats on staying put. but i do know people generally like progress. you can rarely progress in the same property for ever.
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the majority of people expect to buy 3 properties to live in. this was true about 1998 when I worked on a utility paper. BTL will have distorted that view, but only to the topside.
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^ I appreciate that - everybody on here probably arguing from their own perspective based on their experience and circumstances.
Tend to agree that we're obsessed with property ownership in this country and it's not the panacea. Given the choice between saddling myself with a mortgage that I might not be able to afford if my circumstances changed and renting at a level that protected my disposable income, I'd do the latter every time. |
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^ in response to dealem 23.50 post
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2013 - 2015 is the period to be buying. outside of UK will likely be better, but need to heed more caution too.
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firslty we cant build a proper house for 20k
secondly it is wrong to say houses arent a good long term investment, mostly they are and that is fact. of course investments can go up and down... you have to offset a property to the rent you would havebeen paying anyway and it is very unlikely that you woud lose. |
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I haven't stayed put regarding where I grew up
I have moved out(150 miles), god knows what will happen in my life, yes there is a property ladder or a new job that may be 20 miles away but certainly I dont think most people would find themselves in a situation where they'd need to move 200miles constantly and find themselves better off renting, that's in the small minority after all, it'd be good to stay somewhere for free when you have retired from it all at 65! |
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where do you get these massive distances from?
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is moving 10 miles enough for you to search for another property?
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i moved 7 miles away and live around completely differnt people. i aspire to move 5 miles more then i would think i "have made it". with kids on the way i will settle for moving 15 miles further until then... none of this will fit into your "life plan" i cant see where your coming form. i will reread all of your posts now... brb.
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LOL, read above... FACT
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do you live in London?
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i used to. and these distances aren't all in one way.. they bounce back and forth. i could itemise them if you like, if it would make a difference...
i did state my exp is mainly about Londond at the start of this... |
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I take the £20K as notional. the point being as you said houseprices are emotive more than a QS view. £60K would probably be a better figure, in which case the point remains that the economy would have a far greater amount of disposable income.
If you want to profit from houses then you have to remember that timing is everything. Just like any other investment. none of us will live long enough to see the long term in any market without the effect of its peaks and troughs being negligible. ANY INVESTMENT MARKET. Granted some will always show a profit if you hold for the long term, but against inflation it AND the difference in comparison between the same investment made timed optimum/non optimum is HUGE. |
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well notional isnt sutible for this arguement imo.
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lol
can you breath with your head that deep in the sand? ;-) |
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If you want to profit from houses then you have to remember that timing is everything
lol, only if you want short term profits. long term property in almost any part of the UK is a safe bet to beat inflation. i dont know what QS means i am afraid. |
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Dealem, a job 50 miles away is common here and so on, but gather it might be more strenuous in London
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what sand?
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to be honest, the housing market shouldn't be a place for business or investment
we should go the socialist route this way and make sure that everybody in this country has an affordable roof over their heads |
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pf, i don't know where you are but it is obvious that people will travel futrher out of the big few cities. my aunt got moved form her job near he coast of n Yorks and had to drive an hour into York each day to work the new position... i truied to explain that with so many of her colleagues geting laid off it was the more preferable option.
a long trip near me is probably 20+ miles. that would involve a drive to an outskirts train station then a couple of changes into the city. |
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Jim, can you expand on what you said please?
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If the average house cost a nominal £20k then every person could own one and enjoy every penny they earned on the things in life they wanted.
this statement in its slf is ajoke, it assumes people want to be the same. peope aspiring to be "better" (rightly or wrongly) is what keeps a lot of people driving on. some people wrnt made to all work together ion mines or sorting mail. some people were made to either do nothing or aquire more self regulated status. even tribes living in mud huts have people at the top and bottom of the social network. i hate unions also, i bet the OP like the idea of them... it is about who we are... |
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dealem, it was just the way you said yer better off renting rather than buying etc
i had presume you're a guy that moves all over the country doing whatever you do, that's why I mentioned those distances you obviously don't want to be renting forever, as it'd be nice to have a property that you own where you can see out your retirement I'm 30mins walk away from my work so I walk there but yea I travel away sometimes but use the work's car!, cushty! it's just that in your previous posts, you seemed in favour of renting houses? |
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can you give me the time of it pls. i an oposed to renting, i think that it isnt for everyone tho and some are more suited to it.
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Dealem.... 24 Jan 23:10 the banks have lost millions, maybe billions in some cases to bad debt. stop waffling. Only a Tory speaks like that ;) |
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but Dealem, surely a person can't be more suited to renting permanently?
again, it'd need to depend on how much he/she has saved throughout his/her life and so on |
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i would be more a tory. i see tories as winners and the rest as either carers or workers TBO.
i know it isnt fact, just my opinion and am quite happy to voice that to get more debate going here lol i will say tho that my fav politictian is that blind police one and he was labour so i am not blinkered i hope. i do stay out of politics tho... and to an observer i am a bum, i dont do anything, i get up late and sleep till late with a cocnkey accent and loads of "waster" mates. this is where i am from... loud music, heavy drinking fast cars and no higher education. to someone who knows, i am a multi property owner, had 2 or 3 terrible years due to gambling and crash etc but am hopefully well over that now. i have sold the trash and am back infornt now.High IQ just uneducated. propertry is one of the few things i can talk with experience on. my word has always been worth a lot of money as i have never let anyone down financially and never moiss any payments. i know a little about a lot but talk is cheap... my plan now is to get out of renting(as a landlord) and go into development. |
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some people just dont want to buy.
i know this is a poor example, but i know a 65 year old gay aids riddon, incapacity benifit, sponger who works... he has no kids... nor his "partner", should he buy? |
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Dealem.... 25 Jan 00:22
i would be more a tory. i see tories as winners and the rest as either carers or workers TBO. Tories are not winners, they just see people who front the rat race with as much rich help as possible i know it isnt fact, just my opinion and am quite happy to voice that to get more debate going here lol i will say tho that my fav politictian is that blind police one and he was labour so i am not blinkered i hope. i do stay out of politics tho...I believe in politics a lot and enjoy debating and to an observer i am a bum, i dont do anything, i get up late and sleep till late with a cocnkey accent and loads of "waster" mates. this is where i am from... loud music, heavy drinking fast cars and no higher education., you're certainly not seen as a bum who does all that stuff but own a few properties, the Tories would love that my plan now is to get out of renting(as a landlord) and go into development. |
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my first mortgage - about 1980 - was £15k and i earned £5k gross
I bought on my own interest rates were 14.25% - including a loading of 1% because i was the first sub prime risk before we'd even heard of sub prime I had nothing new in the flat and it was an unheated sh1ttip i had a motorbike for work- no chance of even a beaten up car youngsters today have it all too easy sorry- i sound like a grandad- but its all true ever scraped the ice off the inside of your windows to see out and what the weather is like? |
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there are plenty of poor people out there who can offer so much but don't have the money
the Torys will not give a sh!t about that |
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I blame the parents lmfao, KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES, not the government though
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i blame the 'i've gotta have it all' culture - simple maths- buy anything on tick with an interest rate attached to it = you cannot afford to have it
the one thing i bought on tick was property- and i lived so far within my means over the subsequent 15 years as to pay it off life becomes completely different the day you a) dont have a penny of debt and most importantkly b) you dont have that burning desire to spend any of the credit available to you |
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pf, i take that as a nasty comeback and dont feel i deserve it. i dont get involved with politics and know very little about hardly any of it. i rarely watch the news and only read papers in the barbers or a cafe.
i dont know you, nor u know me... but your presumption of me isn't correct. i do think the world is full of either winers or losers and i think ;abour assume people are the same. i dont care for unfortunates, or wasters. but if they are happy then thats nice. lets not turn this to policies coz A) i wont win, B) you won't change me c) this is a property thread lol |