Cheltenham Festival
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Champion Hurdle Challenge Trophy 2020
Champion Hurdle Challenge Trophy 2020
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Replies: 259
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Your very quick to dismiss horses impossible
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Yes, I'm clinical when it comes to horses. As for Pic D'Orhy he was un-fancied (started a bigger price than his stablemate); Never Adapt (injured after one hurdle) and Not So Sleepy (left at the start). It was also a very poor Betfair renewal.
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you are stating as fact it was a poor betfair , the winner had very good french form and prob be rated mid high 150s imo, would not be laying it
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Yes impossible- I did just that on the champion chase thread!
It won’t take much more than effort to win the champion hurdle given how bad the line up is looking. |
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Pic d'Orhy is a very plausible winner if supplemented.
@penzance I think you are right about the pure form, and I think it would take a hell of a ride, but I really do think Pentland Hills may well have the raw talent to win. I still reckon Eptante will take some stopping though. |
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Yes impossible you are clinical you made the racing post chase a straight match at leopardstown on Boxing Day .
Regarding the Betfair hurdle how on earth can anybody be sure it was a weak renewal when nothing has run since ? |
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Hopefully for pentland hill supporters he recovers well from his operation.
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When was the last time Nicky Henderson had a horse that did anything of note after its juvenile season?
Apple Shakira springs to mind as one that didn’t train on, but he must get the best out of them as juveniles, which then ruins the horse. I’d be very wary of backing Fusil Raffles and Pentland Hills. Rory Delargy brought it up in a recent podcast and got me thinking! |
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why has she not trained on ? she showed her level in grade one's as a juvenile and ran okay in a decent handicap last time out
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See you then was 2 nd in a triumph hurdle and went on to win 3 champion hurdles .
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Top notch also 2 nd in a triumph hurdle hasn’t done to badly
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True Top Notch is a good shout of recent times! I would say See you then would be to far in the past.
When I say trained on, the two juveniles that spring to mind are tiger roll and Defi. |
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There won’t be many other than one person on this thread who thought after tiger roll won the triumph hurdle he would go on to achieve what he has,defi was a horse I really liked as a juvenile and was very disappointed with his following season,even after his chase debut you would have needed to be a clairvoyant to predict his rise.
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I think the Hobbs yard was out of form that 2nd season.
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Very fair point
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Peace and Co beat Top Notch in the Triumph, and the former only won a chase at Hexham (thanks 'Google') at 1/5 after that. The Boxing Day race at Leopardstown was a farce; Monalee and Blackmore were fabulous - they dictated the pace; Kennedy was astute tactically; Kemboy clearly was ring rusty; Presenting Percy ran to his ability ie below Gold Cup standard.
But, what had Monalee done since 2nd in The RSA? And, I cannot envisage Pic D'Orhy winning this race despite it not a vintage renewal. If the ground is good I'll let my small stake on Pentland Hills run. |
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Going back a while, horses like Kribensis, Collier Bay, Katchit and Zarkandar have trained on as 2 mile hurdlers after a top 4yo season. Collier Bay didn't win the Triumph but probably would have beaten Mysilv if he hadn't been withdrawn the day before. Apart from Katchit, the others were high class flat horses before going hurdling.
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What has monalee got to do with this thread ?
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Lol I was a little confused about Monalee aswell!
Were Zarkandar and Katchit the last time Nicholls and king won the triumph? Maybe training of top class juveniles have changed in order for them to be capable of winning that big 4 year old prize? The Jp horse trained by O’Brien never done anything either after beating Tiger Roll in the triumph. It just goes to show what a brilliant training performance it is when triumph horses do train on after doing well in the 4 y/o division. |
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I’m starting to build a small position with horses I want on my side in the CH.
Supasundae 33/1 Cilaos Emery 12/1 Coeur Sublime 20/1 (18/19 juvenile) |
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Sorry, I got the race wrong. I thought you meant the Savills Chase.
Regarding the RP Chase FD was held up as opposed to making the pace when running against Samcro. And, Laurina broke a blood vessel - who'd have envisaged that? Notebook (Blackmore rode an astute race) won on merit (the better horse on the day) nevertheless, connections of FD were prepared (until scuppered by the good ground) to take him on again despite 7lbs worse off. The jury is still out. I think one could classified Never Adapt and Not So Sleepy as two significant (non-runners) in the Betfair Hurdle. I believe there is too much pocket talking with the sole aim of (trading) on this thread suggesting horses like Petit Mouchoir, Supersundae and Pic D'Orhy for this race. |
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Clueless .....
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this is only my view,Petit Mouchoir's form
is stronger this season than Pentland Hills. One is 2nd fav (13/2 here) one is 75s. Surely future Champion Hurdlers don't finish behind horses like Ballyandy, twice? |
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Tbf he was giving 3lb to Ballyandy and was chinned late that day.
Pentland Hills has also had a wind op so should be a good 8 lengths better in CH, not that I’m a fan of PH. |
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I have layed 2 petit and ekgin.
Dont thing elgin wil even turn up as missed its prep race today. |
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What price did you lay those two at?
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cilaos emery into around 10s on here after todays win ,looks like he will go here .
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Gonna be supplemented
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Just goes to show how bad the CH is when a horse wins a race and in the process puts in a performance that strongly suggests that it shouldn't be anywhere near the CH..........and it gets supported!!!
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Elgin in an easy lay if you can afford it.
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Just make things simple for yourselves. Back Epatante. She will win. It is a poor edition this year, the mares allowance makes the difference, As soon as she won the Xmas hurdle, JP knew he had a live one and has wrapped her in proverbial cotton wool. Less then a month to a go, I have a nice green book so not going to worry, but be a great start to my festival if she wins. Ratings wise, yes a mid 150 rated horse could steal a sketchy race, but this mare, if gets to Prestbury Park on 10th will be a penalty kick.
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Impossible
The connections of fd were prepared to take him on again It’s what they do in Ireland it’s a grade one with big prize money I would have thought someone as clinical as you would have grasped that . |
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Cash Back got very close to Notebook after FD was scratched, and it was close between the two. I understand Notebook was very keen on the way to the start otherwise I'd say with hindsight FD would have done much better if he'd been making the pace instead of off the pace; money usually a factor, but with JP being the owner I think it would more likely be something else eg Arkle or JLT.
Anyway, as always horse racing is mainly about opinions. And, it's only a game at the end of the day for most - I included. |
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EPATANTE coming to the last, Barry letting an inch of rein go, doesn't want to win too far, sees NdB rowing away like it's the boat race, Puppy is coming through tired horse to make a challenge. JP whispers to Frank Berry, shure hasn't Barry lovely hands, hands like silk......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Lb2Kt5Dec
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Agreed impossible it’s about opinions and it would be pretty pointless if we all thought the same,fair point about jp money arkle or jlt
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cilaos emery supplemented for champ hurdle
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i have had some but not a lot then again you dont need much at 140 plus on here ,pic dory not supplemented as yet but it could be on their minds and still some 140 left for those who like to shoot at the moon !
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Nicholls said Aintree not Cheltenham.
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yep thats what i heard but he did say he should have entered him with hindsight ,and he would have a word with the owners ,i have only had loose change from a free bet i had . the odds say he wont line up but they may have a rethink, only one champion hurdle .
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Don't see CE myself. I have to second shlotters position. I think Epatante will be far too good. In defence of Pentland Hills, I think the ability is there, and they will have learned a lot about how to ride him. I don't think he is a Harchibald, who won't gk theough with it, just needs delivering late. That's hard ti do i a Champion Hurdle though.
Englandbarnes, on the Triumph "training on" question, the convemtional wisdom used to be that the Triumph bottomed them. It was a brutal race most often, and a big field. The Fred Winter has opened up an opportunity to campaign juveniles very differently, and put them in a brutal race off a low mark,nit off levels. It has become a much better source of future top notchers. This has had a commensurate effect on the quality and quantity of Triumph runners. |