YORKHILL SUPREME WILL RUBY JUMP SHIP

Madness

second fav on here now min on drift

Apparently Wylie and Mullins will decide which races Bellshill and Yorkhill go to over the weekend and Ruby will ride Min - Twitter

... or as late as Monday

More likely delsie. If min travels over poorly, then all bets night be off as far as RW is concerned....so to speak!

I was so tempted by the 14's on Yorkhill for the Supreme the other day, and I know a lot on here too it.

Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Yorkhill ended up in the Neptune so Ruby can ride them both.  We'll see in a day or two whether my non trusting of the yard has cost me a knocking bet (if he does run 14's is massive), or if I was right and a lot of people have done their dough because of Ruby's power.

Couldn't back him now at about 4's - come in about 10 points for doing nothing.  Imo the 7's NRNB in the Neptune is a great price.

* a lot on here took it

maybe all not right with min an this is plan b hope im wrong large bet on min 12/1

David Casey says on the RP website that all ok with Min and no decision on which race Yorkhill will go for yet. Would really like to see Yorkhill in the Neptune to give Yanworth a race.

Yorkhill being backed for The Supreme so I've taken the 7s NRNB for The Neptune, not that I'm cynical or anything!

just read on raceingpostapp no decision on who ruby rides  in supreme

As nothing is decided and I still think Ruby will get his way and get Yorkhill to the Neptune - there could be some value in Bellshill for the supreme now!

Ruby is not going to dictate which race Yorkhill runs in. He'll run in the race that they feel he has the best chance of winning and will be ridden by another capable jockey if Ruby picks something else. As integral as Ruby is to the operation it's WPM who makes the final decisions and the buck stops with him.

Wylie will be gunning for the Supreme. imo

delsie how can you honestly think this yorkhill could go for the neptune, have you not seen the money pouring on this thing

walsh rides this and its any price min for me

As the Hawks gather.............the Lemmings begin to panic.....nature at its best.

Sir Alex Ferguson asked Ruby what his three best chances were and Ruby replied Limini, Douvan and Min (in that order).

Maeuldin. It's quite clear Wylie has nothing to do with anything. And it's increasingly obvious Ruby is calling the shots imo. Even more than WPM to some extent.

Harry. Walsh does not ride yorkhill.
Wylie said at preview evening walsh rides min in the supreme.

I will change that.
Walsh does not ride yorkhill in the supreme

"delsie how can you honestly think this yorkhill could go for the neptune, have you not seen the money pouring on this thing

walsh rides this and its any price min for me"

Just an opinion mate - nothing set in stone. Just seems odd to me that YH is just 3-1 with PP. Not unusual for these 'plunges' to happen when NRNB kicks in. But hey - you obviously have the inside track on Ruby and you'll look really smart when he gets off Min.

Delsie. Not saying yorkhill won't go neptune.
Been think why paddy would go 3/1 nrnb.
Maybe because they want the business and don't want to refund stakes. So people will back a different runner with them that will run.
Or
You may be right and they really don't want to take a bet on yorkhill as they know he will go neptune with ruby on board and they don't want to take bets on what would look like an ew cert.

3/1 nrnb certainly a strange one

"And it's increasingly obvious Ruby is calling the shots imo. Even more than WPM to some extent."

Ruby may try to sway WPM but to say he calls the shots is ridiculous.

And if Wylie has no say then why did NC run up against Faugheen all season. Could easily have sent him across the water.

delsie i certainly have no inside track on ruby walsh just an opinion based on min weakness and an absolute carve up going on on yorkhill add to that i honestly feel yorkhill is the better horse

i haven't had a bet (wish i had the 14's though) as want to know the ground and prefer day of the race market when my mind isn't biased to certain horses

i'm still trying to sort the lesser races tbh far more value to be had

maelduin. I don't think its ridiculous at all. WPM has alluded to it several times over the years. Ruby rides them and knows best which race will suit the horse best. As annoying as it is, all Ruby is trying to do is give himself the best chance of a winner in each race, therefore he will nominate the horse he thinks most likely to win each race. And I think Mullins hangs on his every word. I know a few jockeys who openly say that Ruby always gets his way at the yard.

Harry - don't get me wrong - I don't have any agenda regarding the horse as I backed him for any race, the supreme and the neptune. I also have an interest in Min and Yanworth in the two races. I just believe that Ruby will move heaven and earth to get them in different races. Wouldn't you? Genuinely believe that no decision has been made yet and there is bits and pieces of money about for Yorkhill in the Neptune today - so go figure. If Yorkhill had been confirmed for the Supreme I just don't see why PP would be noticeably shortest for the longer race. Good luck anyway.

well for me the nrnb thing is all well and good when others are not offering such concessions delsie but the firms who are not nrnb are also short in the market which means he is a runner in the supreme

knowing how these people operate i'll be astounded if he ran in the neptune with the shear weight of cash that has been lumped on in recent days in the supreme market

Cant catch me you obviously have no insight into how it works in Mullins stable.  Ruby has fook all of a say there.  He isnt even allowed ride the horses in their serious work after the Faugheen debacle before his reappearance at Punceshtown.  WPM and him alone decides where the horses run.

Ruby has fook all of a say there.

Sounds like you have no insight either willy.

willy is right there  wpm calls the shots.

willy is right there  wpm calls the shots........unless it's a Giggy horse.

I'd echo that, Ruby has no say at all. It is true to say that WP may alter plans to facilitate Ruby because he sees Ruby riding as a considerable advantage, but WP alone calls the shots.

Do any of you actually know?
I certainly don't, but it looks more and more to me that Walsh has more of a say than some seem to think he has.
Not many of their decisions go against what Walsh would like,imo.

i wud believe BWS all day long in the context of what your talking about CCM

Buddilea, WP doesn't need any jockey to tell him how to do his job. He does his job brilliantly, as does Ruby, but anyone who thinks Ruby is training them, or placing them, is living in the clouds.

I know a few jockeys quite well, and they have always told me Ruby gets his way at Closutton. Heard quite a few stories of things that have happened over the years, especially at Cheltenham. That's the only point I'm making.... Not trying to pretend Im some kind of insider.

To suggest he has f*ck all of a say is ridiculous to me. That his opinion counts for nothing? He just turns up at the yard and is told which horses are running in which races and then he picks? Surely nobody is suggesting that are they? Obviously WPM has final say on everything, nobody is doubting that.... but I think he uses Ruby's opinion very heavily in making those decisions.

Would you disagree with any of my comments?

By the way, I have not said Walsh trains them or places them.

Festivalfanatic Gigginstown took all their horses out of Mullins stable about 5 years ago and they came crawling back to him.  Why do you think JP has so few horses there?  WPM calls the tune and if the owners dont like it they can fook off and take their horses with them.  He told Potts to go run and jump!!

I wish some of these owners would fook off and take their horses to be honest.
Would have much more competitive racing.

THAT REPLY DOSEN'T SUPRISE ME IN THE LEAST

T thought this time last year WPM wanted Don Poli in the NH Chase only he was told something different.

As far as i remember Patrick said he would love to ride him in the race.

Bigwilly. Are you really trying to tell us that WPM will decide where his Gigg horses run?

Every time a trainer is asked about his Gigg horses, he says the owners decide.
That I do know, ive heard it enough times!!

The thing is though, even if it is Willie who has the ultimate decision, in my opinion this will be based on feedback he has off Ruby as a result of his big race rides.

It might not be Ruby who physically puts Yorkhill in the Neptune (not saying that will happen, just an example), but I assume Ruby will feed back to Willie at the end of every run and give his opinion on whether he was able to keep up, how he ws liking the ground, what type of feel he gave, whether he needs upping in trip - Mullins can't know all of that looking from the sidelines and using the work just as home.

Therefore, I reckon Ruby will bend Mullins' ear, talk up the chances of x in race y, if it meant he got to ride both in seprate races.

At the end of the day, the only people who know are the trainer, jockey and owners, so unless anyone on here has them on speed dial it is all speculation anyway.

buddeliea - Not strictly true as far as horses trained by Mullins are concerned.  One of the reasons Gigginstwon (and McManus) delayed having horses with Mullins for so long is because Mullins calls the shots at Closutton.

Mcmanus has all his GOOD horses elsewhere anyway.........and don't blame him.

As for Gigginstown,they decide, not the trainer is my belief,and I have heard Mullins say that.

For sure Willie will consult his jockeys sometimes but not always cos he knows the horses better than they do.
Because of the scale of the Gigginstown operation he cooperates with their wishes more than others, and as BWS has said the situation can be tentative at times and their horses were practically out the door a few years back before Giggy came running back.
WP has always been one to change his mind regarding running plans, depending on what he sees on the gallops and next week wont be any different, and regardless of what Ruby or the owners want. Vautour for example...Doesn't matter what Ruby or Ricci say. Willie will take a look at things over the next few days and if he wants to run him in the Ryanair then thats where he will turn up.

@wellchief - you hit the nail on the head when you said Ruby will feed back to Willie at the end of every run. The majority of times WPM already knows the optimum conditions for a horse before Cheltenham and he is just waiting to see how each race pans out before declaring them. Sure he'd prefer Ruby on them all but he ain't going to change his plans to appease him.

Interesting discussion. Only thing to chip in is that Ricci when interviewed by Lydia last year said that in terms of his horses being placed he said that they tend to sit down with himself, Willie, Ruby and I think somebody else who I can't remember. Ricci said they thrash it back and forth with him and Willie often disagreeing strongly. Eventually they work it through and come to an agreed solution. I don't recall if he said who had the final say or bigger influences but he was clear that they take a collective approach.

Whereas Wylie was interviewed by Tango Man a few weeks back and he basically said he leaves it to Willie to decide.

It's obvious that Willie and Ruby (in that order) dictate to Ricci.  He nether trains nor sits on the horse, nor has he ever trained or sat on a racehorse.  It may give the illusion of a collaborative process but its clear who has the knowledge at the table.  Ricci is shrewd enough not to rock the boat by playing the 'I pay the bills' card.

Absolutely no chance ruby gets off min! Even though I've heard yorkhill has been working the house down but min has been working equally as well. This makes for a great race, altior is much the better horse in Henderson hard and buveur dair is being talking about as arkle/jlt bound next year where as altior is more of a hurdler

Mar 9, 2016 -- 10:48AM, Eeternaloptimist wrote:

Interesting discussion. Only thing to chip in is that Ricci when interviewed by Lydia last year said that in terms of his horses being placed he said that they tend to sit down with himself, Willie, Ruby and I think somebody else who I can't remember. Ricci said they thrash it back and forth with him and Willie often disagreeing strongly. Eventually they work it through and come to an agreed solution. I don't recall if he said who had the final say or bigger influences but he was clear that they take a collective approach.

He said much the same a few times recently, but it seemed pretty clear that Willy gets the final say.

Something along the lines of 'Why pay someone to do a job, and then not let them do it?'

For what it's worth i dont think yorkhill will go supreme, if he does i think it means they think min is not as good as the hype, if he doesn't i think min will go close, got a feeling they fancy taking on Yanworth in the neptune cos looking at that market it is starting to look like the easier race, i.e more certain to run into the decent prize money than in supreme which looks ultra competitive

Apparently not. The latest is RW has been reported to say his rides are Min, Yorkhill and Long Dog, and of course his bookie paymaster (PP) is shortening it for the Neptune.

I bet yorkhill 2 days ago for supreme at 6.6, just layed back at 7, made a small loss but it's a coin toss for punters where this goes.

I always find Davy Russell very compelling to listen to when he fancies one and listening to him with regards to Yorkhill in the Neptune, I reckon Davy would make him his nap of the meeting in that race.

Don't forget despite the impressive nature of the Yanworth win, Walsh was on SV and he said he hated every second of it.

unbelievable the market moves for this horse in both markets, i have to say i was sure he would go supreme but now not so sure just glad i don't bet any decent money ante post anymore, it is just impossible to form a tissue with these mullins horses, just impossible

So it looks like Yorkhill is now heading for The Neptune with Bellshill & Long Dog seemingly easy to back in any race.

Bellshill's last race could put him in the Supreme (by default) if Yorkhill and Long Dog is Neptune and AB bound respectively.