What happens if DC stays on his feet, I reckon he wins a couple lengths and is strong at the finish, the fact that he fell doesn't really matter because we saw enough to suggest that what I've said was a "likely" scenario and it puts into context Vautour's relative position with regards to strength of stamina...how does Vautour look now, with of course another couple of furlongs and stiff finish to come.

You can argue that Vautour was only 75% fit, but I doubt that because although the race was the KG it was also a fact finding mission and if I wanted to find out if my horse stayed I would want him going into the race pretty much fit as possible in order to get an accurate assessment from the race, I certainly would not want any tiring due to fitness muddying the waters so you are left unsure whether it's fitness or stamina that is lacking.

What happens if DC stays on his feet,
But he didn't and two out is far enough for me not to have your certainty over the outcome.
Even then, if DC does win a length, does that prove that Vautour doesn't stay? Or do you go for the CGC anyway, knowing that you've got a course specialist and the horse that beat him has failed the last two times he went to the Festival?

Personally i think CC just didn't quicken, more plodded at the same pace from turning in to the line, Vautour however slowed giving the non staying argument some credence. The very fact that PB said he didn't want to go another yard (cc) is only due to the pace of that race. The CGC will be totally different pace wise, it always is. For a start they go round the first circuit just rolling along and trying to get into rhythms, gradually increasing the pace as they come round the stands the first time but not properly racing until they reach the top of the hill where we expect those jockeys with weaker nerves to push the button first. (well apart from Denmans CGC anyways)
If the race is run exactly like i described above and RW is riding Vautour up front, who's to say whether he will get home or not, no one knows till the day. But if he is hurried up front by another pace setter or the race is run just like the KG he has no chance. This is what i think will happen as more front runners etc. This is the reason for the above comment with One Man and Florida Pearl, i did get my facts mixed up. And when i referred to me thinking Vautour reminds me of One Man and/or Florida Pearl it is because i think the race will be brutal and he will stop at the bottom of the hill just as them two brilliant steeplechasers did in their year(s). I didn't or didn't at least intend to say that Vautour is just like them i said

SEATHESTARS....NO1 09 Feb 16 11:51 Joined: 04 Oct 09 | Topic/replies: 3,705 | Blogger: SEATHESTARS....NO1's blog
Vautour reminds me too much of One Man and Florida Pearl, ok two completely different horses

You've also got to throw into the mix the fact that he is naturally a keen going sort and with "maybe" stamina at a premium, that is something that could hurt him.

Why?
I currently fail to see any similarities at all with either horse - or Beef or Salmon for that matter - that would cause you to be reminded of them?
Can I ask you a question STS, were you watching racing during those horses careers?

LOL Duffy, no. And he may never do so, these French Breds only have so long at the top - another reason to strike while the iron is hot.
I wondered STS, because I don't see the similarities with Vautour, or even with each other at all. Florida Pearl probably left his Gold Cups in the Leopardstown mud and One Man, despite winning a Hennessey, was clearly more effective over shorter - it just took them a long time to work that out. That may still be true of Vautour, but you don't 'know' that and neither does anyone else yet.

over the longer distances One Man was so easy through his races, the power was sort of disguised where as Vautour noticeably powers along, one man was the equine version of Fred Couples, easy going effortless and when it got tough...fook it shrugs shoulders.

Aren't around forever

Bad luck WC, that's NH racing I'm afraid a brutally tough game and you should just cherish the good times.

Cheers fellas. I was in the winners enclosure when he won the Old Roan, something I'll never forget.

Just shows you have to make the most of them when they are fit and things are going well. Another reason why Vautour should go Gold Cup now because no idea what's round the corner.

No, but a stayer that hasn't got the tactical speed through the race to keep up will be so knackered through trying to keep up earlier on he won't be able to deploy the stamina side of his game because it would have been so beat up through the race...he's got to be able to go at his own pace, SP was outclassed.

One Man was greatly aided in his CC victory by the fact he had Ask Tom as fav. and KD and VF who were both past their best, even though KD was a year younger than OM

I think this is ripe for a bet. I've had a lump on Road to Riches at 5s and 9/2 NRNB, and then about half that stake on Ballynagour and Annacotty NRNB. Vautour not entered at either Gowran or Newbury, so I'd think he'll definitely go for the Gold Cup now. I think this'll be a shocking race

Just one name to reply to that first comment duffy mate

No, but a stayer that hasn't got the tactical speed through the race to keep up will be so knackered through trying to keep up earlier on he won't be able to deploy the stamina side of his game because it would have been so beat up through the race...he's got to be able to go at his own pace, SP was outclassed.

Carlingford Lough Not saying he will win a CGC but he will be a mighty player in a fast run Grand National! Suicidal early, same pace plodder who just kept going, possibly gifted by Vaseaur Lido falling, possibly not but thats a debate for another thread.

As for the SP was outclassed point, am not sure, may well have been but there is the argument that this horse maybe happier dictating the pace or at least up front with the leaders. The pace in the KG wasn't that bad early on but he was being held up.

I'm on Ballynagour at 100 on here for the Ryanair, ignore winter soft ground 3 miles with this horse, spring good ground and he's a player for this race preferably fresh (not happy with him running this Saturday really. He wants 2.5 on good ground around Cheltenham, have a look at him at punchy before he fell and before any stamina issue came into play and he travels as well as anything, he's got good form with the very best during the spring and he's forgotten all about because of how he goes through bad winter ground over 3 miles.

It was an amazing day in many ways STS, made even more poignant by the events of a few weeks later on.

Even if Vautour had another run we still would not know if he stays.
He would have had a prep over 3m,and we all know staying 3m does not mean you stay just over 3m 2f.

I am completely with Duffy,in that he ran the absolute classic non stayers race in the KG.
Hes the one out of the top fancies that I have dismissed, his price is too short for the doubts that surround him anyway.

Let's put it another way: Vautour stayed the KG distance, but Cue Card stayed further and outstayed Vautour; if Vautour, Cue Card, Don Cossack and Don Poli jump the last in the CGC with just a length or two between them Vautour and Cue Card will not carry my money - it will be either of the two Dons I can assure you.

By the way, Vautour beat Valseur Lido - a stayer that needed the full 24f at the weekend on soft ground - over 20f (JLT) on good ground at Cheltenham last year.

I'd not be as confident as you because DC has a turn of foot that has yet to be surpassed by any!

Put it this way I expect DP at some stage to be further back than that,so if hes got that close hes winning in my book. There aint going to be big turns of foot at the end of this race imo.