Cheltenham Festival
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RYANAIR CHASE
RYANAIR CHASE
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just looking at the results, Budd - he is recorded as a non runner so therefore I'm assuming he must have been declared at final declaration point i.e. declared on Wed for GC, ran in Ryanair on Thurs, declared as non runner in Gold Cup on Fri.
I've not looked up the rules just reaching a conclusion based on history. |
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but this is potentially the other way round so if they declare him for ryanair but run him in gc they would have to nr him for ryanair and presumably have to give a reason?? dont they have to have a good reason? the point i guess is that because the ryanir is first doesnt that increase the odds further of him running in ryanair - because it would be a big risk not to declare him and once decalred they have to have a good reason not to run him - my head hurts
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Have a lie down miltons...
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im having a lie down now.....hopefully in the morning someone will have solved this one!!
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I think he'll be in the Ryanair regardless of the ground. I'd say Valseur Lido is the one where the decision will be made last minute.
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I know they can declare him a non runner if there is a going change from the time they declared him until the day of the race - beyond that I'm not coertain
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Only in handicaps is there a rule where if a trainer has declared to run they have to have a good reason not to run. In any other class/type of race you can legally double declare then pull them out, though without reason i am sure they lose declaration moneys paid. The reason the rule is there for handicaps is that a trainer can declare a top weight to keep the weights down for another of their runners, thus not allowing more competition into the race. The after declaration just not run the top weight save it for another day their other runner off 10 stone then romps home cos theres little or no other competition, i am pretty sure a couple of trainers down the years have fallen foul to this rule and been fined by the BHA.
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I have a nasty feeling you are right Chief,but I cling to the fact that his owner said he thinks he would have won last year on better ground.
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The change was made to allow others that would otherwise have been balloted out to give them a chance of a run nothing to do with skullduggery sts
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Vatour runs in the Ryanair and wins well.
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No chance of that now he's going straight to Cheltenham.
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Why not?
A non stayer just out of novice status who evidently looked like a non stayer in the KG. Would be a shoe in in the Ryanair. Also have GC hopeful aside from him. I think they will play safe this year and attempt the GC next year when he can go for a treble of Chelt victories. Any rain will force their hand further. Have a sneaky feeling they will bottle it and take the low hanging fruit. Will look a bit silly when he runs out of puff going into the business end of the GC. |
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Is Vautour definitely going straight there now? Right decision Imo, but I thought they were toying with running him in a prep?
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Ricci wanted him to run in Denman but Mullins wants to send him Straight to Cheltenham.
Mullins makes the decisions so i take it he goes straight to Gold Cup. Nowhere else to run him if he don't run in Denman. |
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I don't think you can say a horse is a non stayer after only one run at 3 mile.
I will be amazed if he runs in Ryanair(Grade 1 in name only this year the way it's looking). |
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Jesus. First run at 3 miles & is beaten in a photo yet is categorically a non stayer. Tough crowd.
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In what looks a vintage KG too!
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Yep, that KG form could hardly have been better franked this last two weeks, with Smad Place and Valseur Lido both putting in eye-catching performances.
By contrast the Lexus form has taken a bit of a knock. By not prepping Vautour, he hasn't the opportunity to categorically prove he doesn't get 3 miles - I think he'll be fine by the way - and so straight to CGC it is. What wins this race, I've no idea! My fancy for a while has been Champagne West, but he disappointed the last day. I think he could still run a big race and hope his mark isn't attractive enough to Hobbs to have a stab at a 'cap. I've taken small insurance for the Plate anyway, just in case. |
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All winter I was sure they would run Vautour in the Ryanair as Djakadam was so prominent in the betting for the GC.
But after his fall, and what you could only say is an uncertain prep, I think Ruby will find it easier to get off him, thus paving the way for him and Vautour to go for Gold. I can't believe anyone can suggest he doesnt stay. Its plain daft, on the basis of one run in a top class race where he was beaten a nose. He has always been a much better horse on spring ground in March. We know he loves the place and that must count for a lot. If he's 20 lengths clear coming over the last he might not even need to stay that well! |
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Vautour reminds me too much of One Man and Florida Pearl, ok two completely different horses, (one didn't even win outside of Ireland which is obviously surely just a coincidence) but neither one stayed in the CGC or looked like hosing up to the point of the hill.
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Who didn't win outside of Ireland? One Man
Florida Pearl won twice at Cheltenham, a King George and at Aintree. |
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Florida Pearl won a King George, a Martell Cup and at the Festival twice STS, plus he looked like winning a CGC before getting caught close home by Looks Like Trouble. His record over here was top notch.
You might be thinking of Beef or Salmon? But Vautour is nothing like him, nothing at all. One Man was better over shorter, as he proved by winning a Champion Chase. I suppose one could see the similarities there, if he fails to stay at Cheltenham - but not yet. |
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LOL, I'm slowerthanslowerthanjohn
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Ha ha I feel for you Desmond
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I like the sound of my own voice too much. A punchy reply like yours and I'd've beaten you to it. But I had to prattle on for three lines!
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At least your prattle is correct
I was a little shocked when I read about hadn't won outside Ireland so I don't think you would  |
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To be fair, I think STS picked up on another comment on a different thread that was talking about both Florida Pearl and Beef or Salmon, the poster stated that one of them had never won outside of Ireland - I just think STS got his wires crossed as he probably wasn't watching racing at the time.
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Everyone makes mistakes and everyone is entitled to an opinion but if you try to back your opinion up with facts at least get your facts correct
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STS on a lunch break,don't worry we can't see your redner
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It's not the fact Vautour got beat a nose and how can you say he didn't stay on that basis, it was the manner of the defeat.
If you asked someone before the race to explain what you would expect to see in the race to heavily suggest that Vautour won't stay the Gold cup trip, you would describe precisely what actually happened in the race. Travels powerfully into the straight with everyone wondering how far? somehow doesn't finish the race off to the extent he was travelling turning in. Again, it's not the narrow defeat, he could have got beat a couple of lengths but had performed differently through the race and you could have come away thinking he does stay, but not in this case, he put on a performance of a stereo-typical non stayer IMO. |
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What would say about Smad Place's run duffy? Ran like even more of a non stayer?
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No, you can't just look at finishing positions in isolation, smad place stays further but he was simply taken off of his feet through the race which hurt him, just because he stays and vautour finished in front of him means that vautour must stay, it's not black and white like that is it.
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Plus it was the best race SP had ever run in and he was simply exposed, his run next time, as impressive as it was didn't in truth frank the form as with Djak out of the race it had no credible GC markers left in it to beat, the same as if SP had got beat out of sight it wouldn't have left a black mark against the KG either.
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No. But it isnt black and white to say that a horse doesnt stay because he didnt quite get home either. The ground was testing, they went a real gallop, and he almost certainly wasnt at his peak. I think he blew up more than didnt stay myself. A bit like he did at Ascot coming to the last when he didnt finish far ahead of Ptit Zig.
Time will tell, and this debate has been done to death (!), but my view is that you cant call him a non stayer yet. |
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But Smad Place is further away at the line than when they turn in, you would expect he would be doing his best work at the end, surely?
Al Ferof was also closer and ended up miles back. There's no doubt that the brutal pace of the race meant that even the horses at the front of the race finished leggy, but that doesn't mean they didn't stay either. Horses always slow down at the end of races. Cue Card probably outstayed Vautour to get up - but there's no shame in that as he's now a top notcher over 3m and as Paddy said, was all-out to do that. Doesn't mean either of them didn't stay. |
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Vautour may well stay, and I believe that if the Ryanair is the only alternative he should definitely run in the GC as he's too good a horse (the best in training) to not find out about.
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IMO their class is such that they could hurt SP through the race and keep going even though they aren't at their most effective to not allow his stamina to come into play...SP was simply outclassed.
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Spot on Des. Running the last few furlongs ever so slightly slower than Cue Card, one of the best about, doesn't mean you 'haven't stayed'. Its all relative.
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Yeah, with Brennan getting off and stating that the horse doesn't want to go another yard (or words to that effect)
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Of course he didn't Duffy (though he would've if asked
 ). They'd just done 3 miles at a suicidal pace, they all finished knackered. Well, those that finished and didn't brush through the top of one and crumple tiredly on landing |