trippin in a field of daisys

@firstimevisor You say that the best 8 2 mile races run in the last 2 campaigns have all included Hurricane Fly. Well the only horse of note that he beat in any of those 8 races was Jezki yet when he came up against him when it mattered at Cheltenham in the championship race he was well beaten into 4th. I'm not knocking the fly, very good horse and his longevity was remarkable but best hurdler in the last 30 years? I'd beg to differ there.

no,but I can see her out my window at this very moment.

lots said here but no-one has nailed down which outsider will win.
Artic fire mentioned alot,  Could Kitten Rock  win without McCoy on board?

He picked wrong in many races last year.....................

HORSENAPPER ALERT



HORSEFIDDLER

My god i've seen it all now....So The Fly needs to go to the UK more often to prove himself, maybe take on Bertimont, Purple Bay etc in the grade 1s there. TNO didnt even show up for the Christmas hurdle. Diakali beaten a whisker in Aintree and Thousand Stars nutted in it 2 years running wouldnt see what way the Fly went. So the Fly wouldnt make your top 6 the last 2 years and Jezki does but Fly beats him 5 out of 7. Who did UDS beat to warrant a place, or AP for that matter. Faugheen has beaten nothing yet either. Bizarre post. And whats wrong with heavy ground or Leopardstown. Best horses are trained in Ireland now and we are talking jumps racing, which is a winter sport and very very rare for any top races,either side of the pond, outside of Cheltenham festival to be run on ground better than soft.

The fly has won 2 champion hurdles on a course he doesnt like, hes naxt to invincible in Ireland he is definitly one of the best we've seen that should be the end of that conversation. Cheltenham is Brilliant but its startng to ruin the rest of the season which is a major concern, and i think its having a more negative effect on the British NH season than the Irish.

Fair enough Trigger,just it read as though you didnt have him in your top 6. Like I said, WPM didnt campaign UDS at the highest level, I would say thats his own business and nothing to do with the Fly's legacy. There were any number of races he could have run in but didnt. AP went the UK route as Faugheen has this year and they are due to clash next week anyway. The only part that hits a nerve is where you suggest the fly has racked up 22 grade 1s by getting soft touches. Solwith, Thousand Stars, Go native, Pedlers Cross, Rock On Ruby, Binocular, Our Conor, Jezki were all top class and he could make them look ordinary. Like i said, the best races run for the last 2 seasons (or 5 seasons if you like) were the races he ran in, and not Christmas or Aintree hurdles. I could argue all day that he's the best of the last 30 years but I suspect many wouldn't have that even if he won next week.

Are you ok brassneck,get in touch with your local crisis team,they might section you !

I went to the bank this and asked for a 50 grand loan to back ANNIE POWER.
Bank manager asked how could I prove that I would be able pay back the load.
So I showed him Annies form and stats.
he quickly wrote out a check for 100 grand.
I told him I only needed 50 grand
he said have 50 grand on for him also.
Clever bank manager.

It's through Mullins having nearly all the big guns that we have this scenario, that said at least he is letting them meet at Cheltenham. It would be nice to see English horses take HF on at Leopardstown. Whilst HF has been a very good horse I cannot have him as the best in 30 2mile hurdler years.

Peddlers Cross ran him close and Rock On Ruby beat him and while I'm fond of both these horses they are not brilliant.

Maybe you love the horse too much to not try to understand what others are implying so you take offence for nothing. Of course he's in the record books and is pretty much among the best hurdlers of the last couple of years but ability wise he isn't among the top all time 10 hurdlers, he's more quantity over quality and that quantity would've been much lower if he had taken on the young talents(see Annie, UDS, Faugheen).

Also there have been enough hurdlers with a longer longevity at the top level than Fly with 3 CH wins on their record(5 in total) so all he can do this year is to equal them quantity wise. You don't gain respect when avoiding rivals which is what Mullins doesn't seem to understand when he leaves home horses so that the mighty Fly can have his way, sometimes it doesn't work though eg. last years CH. I'm sure he won't ever make this concession for Faugheen in the future as he doesn't care for the horse at all, he admitted recently in an interview that he tried to get him beat by taking him to that 3 miles group 3 race on heavy ground which he'd never do to The Fly, ever.

No one was talking about his consistency at the top level, but his ability heights which didn't got him in top 20-30 hurdle performances of all time; nevertheless he's surely in the mix no doubt especially given his dominance in the last years.

Btw I hope he won't make you lose money again this year as I see him in the first 3 and if you're hoping for Jezki to return to last year form and place, or other place combinations with TNO its again going to cost you money. More to the point don't count on Jezki or TNO to get placed as they don't stand for place value at all, count for Fly to get placed as he's in the best form of his life(similar to his 2011 CH) and will be the main challenger to Faugheen and at the prices he'll give a better run for your money than TNO or Jezki.

Seathestars how and why do you think Hurricane Fly is better than Istabraq?

I used Rock On Ruby as he beat HF in the CHdl and that did not leave a bad taste in my mouth as I backed him.

I think most agree that it is not the horses fault but it would have been nice to see him tested at different courses. Only six times where he has run in a field of ten or more, most wins are small fields and same horses.

"its not good to be confused and at the moment I am confused" are you sure its just @ the moment Brassneck

the op says it may be worth being against the front 3 in the market well its tough to see beating the three of em but  hurricane fly available at 10s ew   (5/2 for the place part of the bet ) must be value ew in  a race where we have the dead at (may even cut up futher) , the 8 includes bertimont who seems to have  very very little chance of framing so 5/2 hf to  frame in reality looks only 7 poss runners must be the play.if u cannot give hf any poss chance of winning you canofload the win part paying a very small fine and keep the place. looks as fair a bet as  the wwk will offe u.

you just need to put things into perspective, Mullins made a fool out of RR last year making lots of mistakes with placing his horses, so after P`town last year when they sat down to decide whether Faugheen or Vautour remains over hurdles, RR told him he could keep the Irish CH for Fly and send Faugheen in England, so that pact was respected and now for the CH there's no pact left. Also Faugheen was favourite in the CH since the beginning of the season so unfortunately Mullins can't dodge this bullet as it would look too bloody obvious and all he's left with is hope and hope that a miracle happens which can happen as Fly is in great form at the moment.

Steamship, there are 4 open grade 1 races run over 2 miles in Ireland each year. Likewise in UK as far as I know. These are the 4 races the fly runs in every year plus the champion hurdle. They are both grade 1 tracks-one left handed and one right handed.There is absolutely no need for him to run anywhere else as no other races would fit his training program. Its the same with Jezki.
As for the small fields, well, even though there are thousands of hurdlers in training, theres a gap in ability between the best 3(HF, Jetzki, Faugheen) and the next (Artic Fire) and an even bigger gap to the rest. In the UK the gap between TNO and everything else is huge. So who needs big fields ?. Look back at last years CH... ten ran (i think), only five counted and one of those fell. The pacemaker CCB finished fifth with the others barely home before dark. This is why you are getting small fields...only 8 declared for Tuesday and only 5 count.In the top UK races other than Cheltenham its the same when any of the big four turn up.
Big fields are fine when there is no obvious pecking order ( there were always big fields for Istabraqs CHs cos there was little else of any quality around) but the last thing I want to see is inferior horses getting in the way and messing up the race

This year i backed HF at 20s in early Jan when there was speculation he could be retired after the Irish equivalent with the record safely in the bag!

I see it like this, and did so when i backed him, (each way of course)

Mullins still believes HF can win the Churdle, but knows that probably wont happen given his age. It is quite possible the plan at the start of the season was to go for the record and then retire him given how big his odds were. World hurdle was mooted early doors but i took that with a very large pinch of salt! And then when Mullins saw just how good a form he was in this season he has changed his mind and letting him take his chance. This decision i feel was made around New years time (when i backed him) and the decision was then made to A: go for the record and B: to not give Faugheen another prep run perhaps knowing that he is the new kid on the block but imagine the headlines if HF were to do it! It is also for this reason i think there be a lot of shocked forumites on here if RW picks fly! I think its a close run thing on who he chooses, i really do!

if I am allowed an opinion without getting insulted I truly believe that Annie Power would pulverize this champion hurdle field and would have had she not got the setback in her training.