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Cheltenham Festival
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These 195 comments are related to the topic:
Valseur Lido & Don Poli
Valseur Lido & Don Poli
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NH chase suspended on here?
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Market Suspensions:
12pm, 17th February - Forfeit Stage 12pm, 4th March - Confirmation Of Entry Stage This market will close at 10am on the 9th March. A day of the race market will be available shortly after. |
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Bryan Cooper
Very Wood looks ideal type for four-miler I was delighted with VERY WOOD in the Ten Up Novice Chase yesterday and it was great to see him back in top form. It was a bit of a funny race, I was surprised they didn’t come after us as we weren’t going that quick, just a nice even gallop. He’d been disappointing on his two previous starts. He made a bad mistake at Punchestown in November which gave him a fright and probably knocked his confidence. As I said last week, he’d worked very well at home against some decent horses and the four-miler [National Hunt Chase] looks the obvious race for him. He could run in the RSA but he may just get run off his feet over that trip on better ground. He won last year at Cheltenham on good ground, so that won’t be a problem, but the slower pace of the four-miler will suit. I’d have thought Nina [Carberry] would ride if we go down that route. |
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Willie said today he wants Don Poli in the 4 miler but it's upto the owners....surely Patrick can't hold that much sway
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BC wants Valseur in the JLT and the Don in RSA. All pocket talk aside surely the Don has too much class for the 4-miler and not taking into consideration any other horses/trainers/owners permutations the RSA is the correct race for him.
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Not sure I would describe the RSA as a classy race myself,probably a more prestigious race than the 4 miler,but both races are not exactly classy imo.
If hes seen as a future top class stayer,will it affect him whichever race he runs in?? I don't think so. |
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Well both Wounded Warrior & Very Wood better suited to 4 miler than Don Poli. So I'd be amazed if he ended up running in it instead of the RSA. Giggenstown call the shots as has been shown many times before. I'd really be amazed if Willie got his way here.
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I was describing the horse as classy - whether the RSA is classy depends on the vintage - as with all championship races.
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This has been running and running for ages,and looks like continuing till close to the meeting.
We know Warrior is probably going RSA,and VW going 4 miler,we will have to wait re DP. V lido not done and dusted yet either,although I would be surprised if 3m was his ideal distance at this stage. |
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Yeh I know you were,i was just intimating if hes too classy for the 4 miler hes probably too classy for the RSA. And running in either would not affect his future.
To me its all about which race gives him most chance of winning. Maybe they will wait for the decision re Coneygree......he makes winning the RSA a lot harder than the 4 miler. |
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Budde, the RSA is different level to the 4 miler. Just look at which horses have won it the last decade and compare.
If DP does go for the RSA WPM's comments would have to be seen as a negative. |
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The standard of runner in the race has risen recently as the qualification rules were altered a few years back
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ie the 4 mile race.
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and willie mullins would be finding words to talk down the 4 miler if he wanted him in the RSA.
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Willie wants VL in the RSA because he has probably promised Ricci a free run at the JLT from his yard with Vautour. Betting would seem to indicate that that he isn't getting his way. His dumbing down of Don Poli is amusing. Winning form over hurdles at 2 and a half at Cheltenham on good ground off a 9lb higher mark than Sir Des Champs. Remind me what novice chase he won at the Festival the following season.
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Yes Sint,I agree mate,but as said the 4 miler is a different race now.
Class wise they are getting closer. |
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When was last horse that run/won over 4 miles,gone onto run in Gold Cup next season?
Imo only one race for DP,that is RSA that's what Cooper wants and Valseur in JLT. Hope he goes 4 miler as have decent bets/prices on The Young Master and Southfield Theatre, On DP in doubles,think Perfect Gentleman will go 4 miler for his son? |
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Giggs have excellent chances in each of these novice, VL - JLT, DP/WW - RSA, VW - NH.
Why on earth would they allow Mullins to mess with that order of merit to suit his own plans, which is quite evident ? |
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IF they think DP is a gold cup horse he simply won't run in the 4 mile race.
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Yep,it would certainly be unusual for a gold cup horse to run in the 4 miler. Mind you a few on here fancied shutthefrontdoor for the gold cup this year!!
Mullions seems to me wants him in the race so his son can ride,although the owners may not want him on board anyway. That would be quiet funny if Mullins got his way,and giggingstown put Jamie Codd on him. |
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Foxrock ran in the 4miler and just ran one of the main Gold Cup fancies to a length, and smashed last years Gold Cup first and second.
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There isn't a cat in hell's chance of Mullins facing down the O'Leary's.
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Why is a grade one winner going to run in a listed race?
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Good point chief,forgot about fox rock.
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Foxrock ran a stinker in the NH Chase and was only rated low 140's going into it after 5 or 6 chases. Maybe he isn't a Cheltenham horse, or maybe he should have run in the RSA! Don Poli is different gravy. He's 154 after only 2 chases and has already proved himself at Cheltenham on good ground.
I have Don Poli to win any race, so maybe I should want him in the NH Chase as I think he'd win it with a leg tied up with a decent amateur though not the 7 lb penalty aka Patrick Mullins. With a horse of this potential, Gigginstown will rightly want it ridden by a professional, particularly one as competent as Bryan Cooper. |
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Sorry FF, the point I was trying to make was that if Foxrock can run in the 4 miler and then improve a tonne this year, there is nothing stopping Don Poli doing that either.
You are right in that DP is at a higher level than Foxrock at this point last year, and if he shows a similar level of improvement he can be a Gold Cup candidate. Even though its further, the 4miler might even be easier on him. The RSA is a serious gallop and if you look at beaten horses recently, a lot of them never recover from the RSA. 4 miler is lower rated horses, but all on level weights going slower, which to me is easier. I haven't got DP in anything. No bets in the 4 miler and Coneygree RSA, so I'm neutral in this. |
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PP going 6/1 Don Poli for the NH Chase and Valseur Lido in to 5/1 for the JLT.
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They knew as somebody used to say.
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10/1 Spoilsports Valseur Lido is a knocking bet NRNB (if you can get on!) as obviously it looks like we'd all prefer the chances of Don Poli, but IF plans change, VL aint gonna be up against DP and he certainly won't be 10/1 or even half that price!
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PP reduced VW to 5/1 in the NH Chase as well.
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I think PP have been trying to make fools of us all over the last month with the price changes between these two.
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It would appear they have the inside track on the Mullins yard. FWIW, I suspect Mullins has known that Don Poli was going for the RSA since he won the Topaz.
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How come wounded warrior is so big for the RSA yet seems to be going there? 8/1 for NH chase and 25/1 NRNB RSA.
Doesn't add up and suggests he's actually going the 4 miler? |
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The RSA is a much tougher assignment and difficult to see how WW can beat Don Poli, never mind the rest. He may well still run in the NH Chase but Noel Meade recently made some comment about him not wanting WW to run in it....bit weak or something to that effect. Odd that he should want him in a fast run, gruelling race like the RSA if that's the case.
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Meade actually looks like he wants his pair split up so very wood 4 miles and Wounded warrior RSA.
I think WW chase form is better than very wood's so maybe meade just wants his best in the hardest race. Either way, if one lines up in the RSA it'll half in price which is why I don't understand nobody is taking those gambles as they would with others. I've already had DP RSA and WW 4 miler with no bet on very wood. |
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Not unreasonable that the trainer would want to have the chance of winning 2 races, rather than have 2 good pokes at the NH Chase. He is in the hands of Gigginstown - they will decide where these horse run and maybe they haven't made up their mind! Interesting that in Bryan Cooper's pre-Xmas podcast for the Irish Field, his thoughts were Valseur Lido JLT, Don Poli RSA and Wounded Warrior NH Chase. At that stage of course Very Wood wasn't showing any form at all.
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