Cheltenham Festival
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Un De Sceaux and Willie Mullins
Un De Sceaux and Willie Mullins
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I think all 3 options of Arkle, JLT and CC are on the table for vautour and it will be sometime before this is settled.
If I were Mullins I'd want 2 in the Arkle as 1 won't be enough when UDS lands on his arse having messed one of the downhill fences up. Also, Ricci's JLT horse should be Pont Alexandre - non Irish bred horses aren't for the RSA |
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Adriana Des Mottes beat Rule The World(156 Hurdler) first time up over fences in November and is out on Friday at Limerick in a Grade 2. Good weight allowance too. Where does she go?
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Far too many to second guess really. Will they all be sound? Good luck working it out.
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Fair point Tory, as ive said before my 1 reservation is UDS jumping round Cheltenham at his speed, hes only to touch one a tad too much and at that speed hes in trouble,wise to run Vautour as well,but I doubt he will.
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Shock,it aint bothering me too much as ive not backed any of Mullins novices yet.
I have backed a couple of Gigginstown horses,Real Steel and Wounded Warrior but they are at big prices on here for fairly low stakes, so again not too bothered. Gonna be fascinating to see where all these horses end up though. |
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This becomes more difficult every year. Betfair should open a "where do Mullins horses run market so at least I can profit from this instead of head banging.
Vautour for the 4 miler btw  |
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I really don't think it's cut and dried that UDS is Arkle bound and Vautour will avoid him.
Every now and then I do get some info and from what I know the Arkle is still the plan for Vautour BUT they haven't ruled out stepping him up and Ricci also isn't against running him in the CC under right circumstances. I'll be open and say I've backed Vautour @ 7/1 and 9/1 and should he shorten after Friday I may lay out but it's not a big bet (that's Faugheen and More of That) so I'm open to letting it ride. There are more horses to consider this time than in previous years and some will have to clash, it's just the way it is. You could argue that the JLT is actually looking a far better race so they may want 2 for that, or they may just make sure they win the Arkle by going double handed and hope VL is able to take care of either Ptit Zig/SDR/Irish Saint and whatever else shows up. |
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They have said UDS is Arkle bound, as far as I know that's the only horse they have actually said anything definite about.
The rest are still open to question. |
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Budd, why do you think hitting one at Chelt is worse than hitting one else where?
He is a fast horse and will run quick from the front wherever he runs. |
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Rich ricci has said all along that the arkle was Vautour's target,does anyone think ruby was trying to be a clever **** saying next stop the arkle for uds,knowing that Vautour was going there also,he treats punters and bookmakers with contempt,this year hopefully he will let them both take each other on,the ground was good last year as alleged said,I'm sure the track record was broken !
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Hi Brandy,
I don't think hitting one at Cheltenham is any worse than anywhere else in that respect, what I mean is Cheltenham is a bit trickier in that its undulating and may catch him out.Oh you are right mate,hes fast and will run quick from the front be it Cheltenham or anywhere else. cuf, Who knows if Ruby is trying to be clever? who knows anything with this yard for sure?? I'm just saying what they have said, and all comments from both trainer and jockey certainly intimate UDS is running in a big race at the festival, and mentioning the Arkle makes that favourite. |
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This thread is already like a broken record and we've got 3 months yet
 I think the most likely scenario is the most obvious - Vautour and UDS both in the Arkle, Ruby on one, Townend on the other. |
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If you get the odd word from them Tory you'll know UDS is going to the Arkle and nothing else is being considered for him, As for the rest it's all up in the air.
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Wicketd
Wicketd 23 Dec 14 18:25 Joined: 11 May 09 | Topic/replies: 715 | Blogger: Wicketd's blog i think the JLT is the best race for Vautour. I think he's a potential gold cup horse. UDS has so much speed and as said willie will be desperate for this to win given his criticised absence last year. He looks the pure two miler whereas we know Vautour will stay. I think Vautour is tailor made for the JLT. Despite winning the supreme, debuting over 2 miles and over 2 miles Friday? Why would the JLT be tailor made for him. You hardly watch him in the supreme and on chase debut think hed be much better over further. I just dont understand the arguement |
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Spot on SJ. If it wasn't an issue of WPM and Ruby trying to win as many races as possible, we wouldn't even be having this debate IMO. Blitzed his field in the Supreme and then left Clarcam, a horse I think is one of the best novice chasers in Ireland, for dead on his fence debut over 2m.
He is the most exciting horse in training for me, and Ive no doubt he is good enough to still win the JLT, but everything we have seen thus far says he should be running in the Arkle. |
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The National Hunt is revolving more and more around the Festival so this is the chance for the best V the best at the greatest meeting. No doubt this will be up again after Friday
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sj, i think the horse is absolutely exceptional and has shown so much speed as well as staying power. He showed all that speed in the supreme to then stay on strongly up the hill, to my eyes in the manor of a stayer with lots of speed. Agains the tullow tank before that, he stretched him out and outstayed him with impressive jumping. It's just that he has so many gears 2m isnt an issue for him either. i think he'd beat anyone in the arkle if he were to go there.
in terms of the future though - if he's a GC horse in the making, maybe the JLT makes sense. If he cruises round and oustays them in that, he'll be very short for the GC. It also gives them a chance to see if he can pour it on and win that easily over the distance. The step up to 3 miles wont be as much of an issue then unlike if he goes arkle, when everyone will start saying his stamina is in question having never raced further than 2m over fences etc. i know a lot of arkle wnners have been strong stayers, but if i thought vautour was a potential gc horse, i'd go JLT. and i think he's just that. |
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Thats fair enough mate
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what about if he is champion chase horse??
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he could well be, but im sure i heard from one of connections that he's a future gc horse, and we know the prestige that race carries. so if they are dreaming of the gc, they wont go cc route
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when mrs alleged had lunch with susannah at hibiscus the other week, it was vautor for the arkle, no ifs or buts just the arkle
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not me personally
think it was in an interview or news story quote |
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im only joking mate although I have been to hibiscus when it was in Ludlow
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I don't think Vautour is a potential GC horse and I don't think they have any reason to make him one (considering all the options they'll have for that next year). He'll probably stay further than 2m but most champion chasers do. In my opinion if Vautour keeps on improving - and he is as good over fences as he was over hurdles - then he's probably tailor made for the Champion Chase.
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if UDS was certain to run in the Arkle with Ruby on board then I would wade in regardless of whether vautour is in the same race or not however too many ifs and buts and will probably still be a decent price on the day
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Well his price on the day largely depends on whether he runs in the Irish Arkle imo. Were he to run in that and win well he would shorten,cos that would remove the only doubt about him,the fact that he's now won a top race.
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agree but only if he beats vautour and gilgamboa, and if either of them misses irish arkle and shows up at festival they'll be well fancied
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Wel I'm assuming Gilgamboa will be in the race and Clarcam as well. Can't see Vautour in it as wel as UDS,one of them will,go elsewhere I imagine.
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surely a spoiler will be used to not let un deax scaux have it all his own way out in front !" not playing with a straight bat" so to speak but if I were a trainer It would be on my mind for sure !
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^^^ not sure they could keep with him, Foylewar.
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may be right howdi but foolish to let him have his own way in front with a soft lead ,like an opposing team to lional messi "here son have the ball do what you want with it we will sit back and watch" .
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It's a legitimate tactic if you ask me. Remember Carvills Hill. Golden Freeze did for him. However, as Howdi says sticking with him may be a problem.
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sometimes 'throwaway' jockey comments give you the best insight - last year after faugheens second run I think, ruby said it was probably the best of their novices, I think vautour surprised him at the festival but that form is not looking so strong now, and both vautour/josses hill have displayed jumping issues, whereas UDS IMO overjumped if anything when he came down but of course hard to tell because of the spectacular camera work that day!
so ref UDS this is report after mr fiftyone won the race in which UDS was about 25l clear when falling a few fences from home and showing no signs of stopping Harrington said: "They've got to jump. He jumped great, Robbie said they went Arkle pace and he finished tired but was entitled to be. mr fiftyone has since of course finished far behind clarcam but was within a few lengths of the winner before the second last, whereas UDS was a dot on the horizon when he came down as for the OP - Djakadam will surely be aimed at the Ryanair? |
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Vautour could try to get his season back in track in the Frank Ward Solicitors Arkle Novice Chase at Leopardstown at the end of the month.
Last season's brilliant Supreme Novices' Hurdle winner made a foot-perfect start to his career over fences at Navan in November, but was well beaten by Clarcam in the Racing Post Novice Chase at Leopardstown over Christmas. The six-year-old made a bad mistake five fences from home but trainer Willie Mullins is hopeful his charge can bounce back from that 17-length defeat on his next start. "He wasn't moving well on the day at Leopardstown. No real problem showed up afterwards and it was probably a bit of a tight muscle," said the champion trainer. "I gave him an easy time after the race and hopefully we can get him back to where he was. "The Arkle at Leopardstown is a possible next race for him." Doesn't sound like a JLT horse to me. |
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I agree. Cant see them upping him in trip at Chelts without a run over 2m all season....
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mullins is the exact trainer who doesnt mind doing that though
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Does he? I cant think of many examples.
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IF he runs in and wins the Irish Arkle then he has to go to the Arkle @ chelt. It would be completely ridiculous if he didn't!
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well faugheen didnt have a typical neptune prep running over 2m6 and 3m before the festival. briar hill ran over 2m4 both times before the festival. champagne fever went straight to KG without trying 3m.
i just dont think proving yourself at the distance is a concern for him. if he thinks he stays he'll run them. i still think vautours supreme win was more of a staying performance than a speed one |
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If he runs Vautour in the Irish Arkle instead of Un De Sceaux it (again) shows who he thinks is the better horse.
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