Cheltenham Festival
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Vautour 9/1 Arkle Chase with PP
Vautour 9/1 Arkle Chase with PP
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I backed Vautour today at 8/1 for the Arkle but have no complaints about where they go. But as a backer i'd be concerned he still looks like he needs another run before March. It's not like he had a hard race today was it.
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I've not had a bet, but all this "If UDS does the business, we will keep them apart" Why? You're an Arkle horse 7 weeks out or you arent regardless of what UDS does
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I'm on at 6's any race, and I'm 50/50 whether to lay off at 3's for the JLT and reinvest it on Ptit Zig and Valseur. Been seriously impressed with those two.
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3 Chase runs is plenty for a Novice before Cheltenham imo.
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SJ - The owner has two Arkle horses, one (UDS) really only has the Arkle option, the other (Vautour) could be equally competitive in the JLT.
If both are fit, well and win their preps comfortably why wouldn't he want to have the chance of winning two races. Nothing sinister about it - everyone knew this at the start of the season - see the OP. |
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What happens if they know Vautour is better than VLido? does VL go RSA??
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VL shouldn't be twice the price of Vautour imo
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VL is a different owner so if they consider the JLT the best race for him then he would still that owners best chance of winning the JLT even if the stable think Vautour is better.
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So uncle, Paddy have never taken on a horse and got it wrong? They went 2s biggest price on Annie Power the Mares mate. Exactly my point Budd does he re shuffle the pack and move Lido up to the RSA and go back to Don Poli's original 4 miler?
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Uncle - UDS and Vautour aren't owned by Ricci
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3 runs is usually enough but not when they're winning at 1/5 and almost fell. Just looks like he could use another run to me.
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yeh,i get that,but its possible they may think VL has more chance of winning the RSA with Vautour in the JLT,and they have another option for their other RSA horses, who both look like they could win the 4 miler.
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sintonian
sintonian 18 Jan 15 16:58 Joined: 21 Sep 04 | Topic/replies: 25,638 | Blogger: sintonian's blog 3 runs is usually enough but not when they're winning at 1/5 and almost fell. Just looks like he could use another run to me. Agree not learning a greatd eal |
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Someone did mention another race,but I forget who,not sure it was walsh, maybe it was in commentary??
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jetodd - sincere apologies.
 . They have incredibly similar colours and I only ever get to watch them on the Sportinglife website videos.Of course Mullins, as always, will wait until every horse has run all it's trials and see how they are, and what the ground is, before finally deciding. The one thing that does seem to be too influential is Ruby Walsh's availability and his desire to ride all the big guns (HF and Annie Power last year for example). Ultimately the owner can overrule everything if he has the balls (and I'm sure Ricci does). If UDS runs poorly next week or gets injured a week before the festival everything can get reshuffled - I don't see the problem with this. |
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Yeah ATR bloke asked if he ll have another Ruby hinted that he thinks 3 is enough
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unclepuncle
unclepuncle 18 Jan 15 17:09 Joined: 16 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 3,241 | Blogger: unclepuncle's blog jetodd - sincere apologies.Cry. They have incredibly similar colours and I only ever get to watch them on the Sportinglife website videos. Of course Mullins, as always, will wait until every horse has run all it's trials and see how they are, and what the ground is, before finally deciding. The one thing that does seem to be too influential is Ruby Walsh's availability and his desire to ride all the big guns (HF and Annie Power last year for example). Ultimately the owner can overrule everything if he has the balls (and I'm sure Ricci does). If UDS runs poorly next week or gets injured a week before the festival everything can get reshuffled - I don't see the problem with this. My problem is why should there be a re shuffle? What UDS does should have no bearing on where Vautour goes |
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Cos unfortunately its the yards priority to try and win every race,and not to think about what we may think is good for the sport,or even peoples bets.
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I would absolutely love to see UDS and Vautour in the Arkle...what a race that could be and the build up would be something as well........especially on here!!!
But the people that could make it happen,wont. |
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If ruby rides uds, ricci should bring in another jockey for vautour in the arkle. Feck having that quality of supreme winner making way for anything. Mccoy, gerraghty or fehily would jump at the chance, if they aren't on one. As another poster stated, he looked like he needs a faster gallop to sharpen up his jumping.
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http://youtu.be/RzknzHuE21o 58 secs in
mccoy states if he could pinch 1 of rubys rides it would be UDS in the arkle, ruby responds no chance !! |
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Well its a jockeys dream to ride an exciting quick front runner,hair raising it may be but these jocks are nutters.
Ruby would not want someone else to have that when he can have it. |
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I hope Vautours owner stands up a be's counted. Even after today, you still have to factor in festival experience. Plenty of good jockeys around, and selecting one for the bigger race would be a fun challenge. It's nice to be flexible, but he pays the bills. Vautour wants the fences to come faster.
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Graeme if he wants to win a race at the festival JLT is his only option.
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On a side note, why would mullins wend 2 for the jlt, and not the arkle. I'm thinking Lido may go rsa afterall, and that mullins is wanting to sweep up.
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Which is the harder race for Vautour? 50/50 really. Un De Sceaux in the Arkle or Valseur Lido / Ptit Zig / Gilgamboa in the JLT?
Un De Sceaux the best of any potential opposition but if there's any weaknesses is his armour, it'd be easy to capitalize. The JLT has far more depth to it but may be easier won. |
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Arkle the horse is proven at the festival. I'd rather give the arkle a go and stay on for at least second, than lower ambitions by going down the easier route. If they see him as a future stayer, then a good arkle run is the way to go. Ricci shouldn't throw in the towel for anyone.
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Gigginstown will feel that Valseur Lido has nothing to fear from Vautour. They would be mad to run Don Poli in the 4 miler with an amateur jockey if they think he might be a Gold Cup horse in 2016. They sure as hell won't be taking each other on over 3 miles.
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Think people need to check their comments they made about Mullins, Ricci and Vautour. Looks very likely that Mullins knew UDS might be this good. So Ricci's options are to have a Rubyless Vautour try take on UDS, or go for the 2m4f race with Ruby aboard.
You can see why Ricci leaves things up to Mullins and Ruby. Captain Conan didn't go for the Arkle because Henderson knew Sprinter wouldn't be beat. This is the same |
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And sprinter sacre had winning festival experience, plus conan came 5th in the jewson, and would have fared better in the 2 miler. That enhances our opinion. Now unless lido goes for the rsa, i wonder who he would expect to run better. We saw how good uds win, but hiding from him, then not winning the jewson would be an error, and even a brass neck if uds didn't win the arkle. The owner should grow a pair.
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I agree. he's supposed to be sporting and even that aside the JLT looks ultra competitive, you can add apache stronghold to the above list too as a possible....about time he stepped up and put the supreme winner in the right race.
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I think the Vautour for JLT is because as Ruby said they think he's a stayer. If they want him to make up into a Gold Cup horse, they should step up to 2m4f now and then up again to 3 miles next season. He's bred to stay.
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I think CVB is absolutely spot on. Add to that the fact Vautour looked so comfortable over slightly further last time and it has to be the JLT.
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Surely you'd want two horses in the better race rather than having two in the JLT that is so competitive that you wouldn't be over confident in any case.....I can see that they seem to be taking the view that UDS is past the post, but the arkle is the arkle so why not try to make sure.
When they turn round to Ricci and tell him that Vautour has no chance so let's not bother, he should for once insist...I'd love to see the look on Walsh's face should that happen. |
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Mullins is running Vautour in the right race, if they think he's a stayer they go up in trip. Just because you may disagree with his opinion doesn't make hi wrong and you right. He knows his horses better than we do after all.
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Vautour, Champagne Fever, Al Ferof, Menorah - Supreme winners and are Stayers. Mullins said today after Outlander won "you need a stayer to win the supreme".
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Didnt re Felix Yonger last seaon.
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Didn't what with Felix?
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He does know his horses better that's for sure and we all agree on that, but he's running Vautour in the JLT because UDS is in the arkle, without UDS he wouldn't be anywhere near the JLT...no-one is believing it's the stayers angle.....vautour has the pace for an arkle that's obvious and it's the best race for him and where a supreme winner of his calibre deserves to be....with any other owner/trainer he'd be in the arkle...that's a guarantee.
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As I said on another thread a lot of Ricci's horses have been moved around to accomodate Gigginstown's horses and Un De Sceaux. He seems perfectly O.K. with it but maybe if a bigger deal was made of it in the media, he might start digging his heels in.
Also another way of looking at it is if Un De Sceaux wasn't around, there wouldn't be any doubt Vautour would be going for the Arkle and not joining Valseur Lido in the JLT. The JLT being the right race for Vautour is only in the context of the Arkle being the right race for Un De Sceaux. That's my take on it and I'd definitely be with duffy....I'd love to see him take on Un De Sceaux. Valseur Lido surely goes for the JLT and Don Poli the RSA as well. |