I thought I explained Vautour's case already. He made a terrible mistake in his 2nd ever chase and even then did not fall which says a lot. Of course we dont know for certain that Vautour is one of the great chasers.

That was disappointing, thought he had them 2 out but didn't seem to get home, it's possible there are excuses but doesn't look the superstar we hoped he was.

Will go chasing next season definitely. Wouldn't be shocked if Douvan is now aimed at the Neptune while Shaneshill and Tell Us More are both dropped in trip for the Supreme.

I would be very interested in where the Gigginstown boys think Identity Thief is In their pecking order, I liked his run the other day.
Along with JP's Alvisio Ville,they are the 2 novices ive been most impressed with in Ireland thus far.

Anyone know or heard anything re Identity Thief? would appreciate any info.

"This fella is improving all the time but I didn't think he had improved that much," said Mullins.

"I only threw him into the race at the last minute as I thought 'where else do I go with him.'

"Paul gave him a great ride. The improvement I've seen in his homework is vindicated.

"Tell Us More jumped fantastic and raced great. He probably had to do all the donkey work and that probably just told.

"He beat off Free Expression, the one that we thought would jump and stay as well as anything.

"It's possible Mckinley's flat race experience might have paid off. Tell Us More had three races where he didn't have to fight or battle and inexperience might have beaten him.

"We'll look at the Deloitte now for them. There are a few novice hurdles around and we'll see how they come out of that and see how next weeks novices get on.

"We thought Tell Us More was a stayer but we might think about coming back in trip now.

"Killer Crow (second last under Ruby Walsh) probably wants further and better ground." (GC & EM)

Thought Willie would consider dropping it in trip after that.

Sorry 2m!!

First he's a stayer , now he may be dropped to two miles !! I believe they were fooking shattered by defeat today and waffling now what to do next. Watched race again there , gained serious ground and momentum at hurdles and still not good enough. Free expression jumped poorly and novicey in comparison and only beaten narrowly. Vatour hardly a hype horse is he, festival winner, terrible make his downfall lto.

Whilst today was disappointing, I still think he'd have a better chance in the Neptune than a Supreme - current odds of 12's vs 25's back that up.  Not saying he'd win either, but I think his strengths will be seen more in a fast paced Neptune.  I think he'd get done for toe in a Supreme.

Also, the idea of potenitally moving Douvan to a different race to accomodate Tell Us More would be wrong imo.  Douvan has earned his place at the top of the Supreme market, and although Mullins thinks he may be a Neptune horse (quoted a month or so back), he has rock solid form for the Supreme, in a weak looking renewal.

Agree Chief, Douvan looks his best supreme horse from what ive seen thus far and looks simply a better horse than TUM

TUM may run better next time,but gut feeling is he just aint as good as some thought he was.

Well I think shaneshill was outstayed in the bumper,some might outpaced,after what happened to allez columbieres I backed shaneshill to win the supreme,can't help thinking tell us more will run in supreme now,although disappointed with his performance today he still looks like a top class horse the way he jumped and travelled,all is not lost yet !

3 nice novices tbf...but just an average grade 1 and all fairness it just looked an average grade 2 on paper before the race

mcinley always promised to be a nice horse and his rating has been hidden behind running over shorter trips...he was punted heavily pre-race before leopardstown before pulling up early in the race...he will be even better when seeing better ground imo and will probably continue to go under the radar against better opposition

free expression continues to look a tough ride...he hit 2 out just when he was about to challenge then hung after the last...i agree with an earlier poster that martello tower would of beaten him last time but for falling...i want to see him step up in trip but have a feeling he is slightly quirky so not one to take a price about...maybe fences will make a man of him

tell us more had more questions to answer than lee harvey oswald before he ran today - he ran a good race imo and inexperience just done for him after the last, where the winner leaned on him...he certainly at least gave us something to work on but also had his limitations exposed by the winner...

i have no doubt he is a nice horse and he proved that today, where they go next isn't clear but he looks open to considerable improvement judged by this showing and personally he enhanced his reputation today in my book but i didn't have his form down as a top notcher before today...he is certainly a nice horse for the future though and better ground will suit, however he could be a tough horse to place cheltenham wise on this showing...he looks like he will need time, however i like him more now than i did before the race...i have found his level, something i didn't have before the race but he is open to much more improvement imo

Perhaps I didn't make my point very well. The point I was trying to make is that all horses have off days. Vautour did last time yet is still a very useful animal. It's not that much of a leap of faith to say Tell Us More had one today. Of course he has proved nothing yet, but this stable isn't often wrong when they think they have a star, and that's what they believe he is.

He clearly jumps very well. I think the yard is under a bit of a cloud. Just my opinion.

Yes spot on Budd. That's all Im saying really. Let's not write him off on the back of a decent enough effort so early in his career.

Must still rate him highly if they are pitching him back into another Grade 1, normally one of the strongest Grade 1's at that.

Looking at the recent winners of the Deloitte: Vautour, Champagne Fever, Benefficient, Oscars Well, Dunguib, Pandorama, Forpadydeplasterer, Aran Concerto, there is a mix of both Supreme and Neptune in there, so it can be a trial for either race really.

Deloitte a key trial. This L'Ami Serge thing is begging to be beat. I think Douvan is their number one hope and he will dictate where Shaneshill and Tell Us More go.

Wicketd what did you think of Vautours 3/4l win over Western Boy in January last year?

CV theres no point answering that because if i say i thought he'd relish a stronger pace and looked to want company im an aftertimer and i if i say i gave him no chance i go against my point here

reason i think he has no chance at cheltenham is because he has been exposed, in what i believe was a very weak race. his jumping kept him as close as he got.

Exposed? It was his 2nd run over hurdles.

i didnt mean fully exposed, i meant after just his 2nd run over hurdles we've already been shown that it doesnt take a top horse to beat him