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He has a round action, so an expert like Eet will know exactly what that means. I won't be backing him as I rarely bet even when one of mine are running. All I want is that Mr. Claisse provides ground which will see him come back safely on Friday. Then we have one hell of a novice chaser for next season.
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Which means you're pocket talking.
![]() Fair enough. If I had a good one and thought he could make up into a decent sort I'd look after him but the option is there to pull him out if it doesn't suit. Plenty of trainers have spent three months doing just that on the desperate ground we've had with good ground horses. Give someone else a chance if that is what the fates decree. Don't get me wrong. I want safe ground. I don't want good to firm. It isn't. |
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WATER was being applied to the track at Cheltenham on Wednesday night to ensure conditions do not become too quick over the final two days of the festival.
After Wednesday's last race clerk of the course Simon Claisse checked the state of the New course, on which racing takes place on Thursday and Friday, and then said: "We will be selectively watering to maintain current conditions, which are good, good to soft in places. "It'll take until one in the morning. We'll put between 3mm and 5mm on the ground that's quicker, which is around two-thirds of the New course." No further watering is planned for Thursday night and Claisse said: "The intention is that this should last for two days. We have done it three times before on the Wednesday night of the festival. It's due to be dry and sunny tomorrow and getting warmer, more like 14-15C." |
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will you be reducing the tax on Ryanair flights if LI wins the GC Michael_o and perhaps improving customer service.....
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I thought I heard that Istabraqs track record was broken twice on Tuesday,that if its correct says that it weren't good to soft.
It will have dried out more and more since then lads. Claisse has been doing this job a long time now and I have confidence in his ability to provide good and safe jumping ground,so I say let him do what his experience and knowledge of the course tells him to do. I don't know if the sad event of Tuesday is cos of the ground - fatalities unfortunately do occur in this game on all types of going - but I do know Claisse has always maintained he will try and have safe ground,and will continue to try and produce that. |
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so they water and then the fog comes in to trap it in
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budd, the reason course records were broken is because they've changed the way they measure the times. Going on the traditional method of timing the races they have been slower than standard times. Not Championship race standard. Slower than standard.
Going by that the ground is on the soft side of good. |
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marychain is spot on,
Racing post standards are for what a 135 horse can do carrying 12 stone on good ground. so a champion hurlder rated around 165 and carrying 11st 7lb would be expected to go considerably quicker than standard. |
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Case closed I think and all the logic and facts are coming from those who have just posted them. The interesting question is how much the fog will seal that artificial moisture in. If you're an owner with a good top of the ground horse you might be dragging Claisse up to the top of the grandstand and flinging him off.
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Is there a case for bringing the meeting forward to say the end of Feb?
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Well the times of the first two races today suggest he's put plenty of water on perfectly safe ground so I'll be keeping my money in my pocket. Claisse is like one of those football refs who want to get in on the action.
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what were the times?
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He has not maintained the ground at all, he has altered it.
Any horse that wanted good ground or faster has had their chances compromised. |
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Dunno what happening here. It appears that he's put fog on the course.
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Jockeys are coming in with mud on face and silks. Any horse that wanted good ground has basically been snookered
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Judo
In answer to your question the first race just shy of 7 seconds slower than standard and the Pertemps 11 seconds This is based on the new timings so add a few seconds. Not that much slower than last year. |
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Apologies. I mean the ground isn't riding that much faster.
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ta
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Of course then the heavens opened last year and the gold cup was a war of attrition. No sing of that yet. Perhaps instead of 2am Claisse will have the staff out all night tonight.
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eeternal it was a disgrace what he did last night
yeah he got unlucky with the fog but he put too much on no matter what the weather |
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Like I said when more of your races are slower than standard than faster you've got to be a head case to then be throwing water onto a course which has been saturated for most of the year. He may have got away with it but I for one don't think that is good course management and I don't think connections of some of the proper good ground types which have gone down narrowly will be too impressed.
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Shouldn't you change your name... to Eeternalpessimist
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better not water tonight the mad coont
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Races run at a slower pace, fewer fallers, and above all no injuries to either horse or rider. Case for watering proved as far as I'm concerned.
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half the field failed to finish in the Kim Muir ^^
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michael
Going by your logic the clerk should be aiming for heavy so everybody can have a nice soft landing when they come down. Look at the times man. Championship races run at championship paces and every single race well outside even the standard time. Message to owners with good ground horses. Leave em in the box. |
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FFS, are you STILL whining you boring ****er...get over it ^^^^^^^
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I wouldn't have expressed it quite as graphically as that super7, but I agree with your sentiment. If Days 1 and 2 had been run on today's ground, we'd still have OC and Dunguib imo. And poor Bryan Cooper would probably not be facing 6 months on the sidelines. Fast ground at the Festival spells danger for every horse and rider, but quite a few people on here couldn't care less apparently.
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Bullshiit. Where was the fast ground on days 1 and 2? I've given you the facts. Don't you like them? You care when it suits. I'll bet a pound to a pinch of shiit that you don't get your banners out at summer jumps meetings. Of course I want horses to return safe but anybody who suggests that OC or any other horse died because of fast ground is simply lying.
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Oh dear, I seem to have got under your skin. Descending into abuse is what happens when bullies lose the argument. Can't you get it into your head that this is the Cheltenham Festival, where ground described as good, or first-day good-to-soft becomes the equivalent of good-to-firm when jockeys eye up the tantalising prize-money on offer? And by Christ the times were quick, even allowing for the adjustment. What was needed was a bit of water to curb their enthusiasm. It worked very well today......two days too late alas.
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I didn't descend into abuse. Super hans did and then you started clapping like a seal. Then I gave you some back. However, there are two points which you are failing to address and with respect that is the cowards way out. So let me put them to you straight and see what you have to say:
1 Are you aware that on the first day that more races were run outside the standard than under? 2 Are you aware that a new way of timing races is in place this year which makes race times several seconds quicker than previously? If it was any kind of good let alone good to firm this would have been reflected in the times. It wasn't. The first two races were fast but that was in large part due to the fact that they were run over the minimum distance and so the differential in the start times year to year was exaggerated. I look forward to your response. By the way just so as you know there are no hard feelings and you haven't got under your skin I hope your own horse returned sound. |
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Just to put the record straight, michael_o (and obviously Super7 too) you are entirely wrong and also missing the point. This trigger happy watering we've seen recently is a real kick in the teeth for any real racing fans out there as it represents a massive step towards some artificial, sterilised yearly moneyspinner with the sole purpose of keeping the right (wrong?) people satisfied. Dont give me the safety tripe either as horses get injured as a result of many different factors. I remember there was lovely soft for the 1989 Gold Cup, that slowed them down nicely.....
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I wonder if the doped up horse will run.....
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I was at the 2006 Derby too and witnessed the horrible scenes with Horatio Nelson. Not a fence in sight.....
I would say exhaustion and trainer stupidity just as dangerous as speed. |
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Having had an enjoyable week in the Cotswolds, I must express my appreciation for the efforts of Mr Claisse and his ground staff under difficult circumstances.
On hearing the time of the first race on day one, I walked part of the course and was astonished to see what little impact the runners had had on the surface, in places barely making a print. At this point I thought, if this is the Old Course at 2.30pm on Tuesday, what will the New Course be riding like at 5.15pm on Friday? The weather was glorious and as I walked back up the finishing hill Peter Hobbs and Richard Linley (The BHA Inspectors of Courses) walked past going down the hill. Later in the afternoon, a well known racing journalist of my acquaintance informed me that Linley had said that Claisse would HAVE to water the New Course on Wednesday evening as it was drying out at an alarming rate. The keyboard warriors on here seem to think that Claisse is a loose (water) cannon who does what he likes. I can safely inform them that he does not do anything without prior consultation with various parties. As I said at the beginning. Well done Mr Claisse. |