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Cheltenham Festival
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These 206 comments are related to the topic:
Simonsig Targets
Simonsig Targets
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Replies: 206
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no chance! will stay away
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Reading between the lines, it would appear that Hendo would have been keen enough for a campaign for the Chanpion Hurdle. It seems that BJG and the owner strongly influenced the decision to go chasing. Well done Ronnie Bartlett - in the game for the craic and steeplechasing glory. Whilst he would love to have a Champion Hurdler, it seems he would love more to have an Arkle winner.
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chasing is where it's at in the NH game which is why I never understood Andy Stewart accepting keeping Big Buck's over hurdles. Will never win the GC in his life now
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judo
I've met Bartlett a few times and he is an absolute gent. Incredibly down to earth for such a wealthy guy. Dyed in the wool p2p and hunting man, which is why I was convinced he would go the chasing route. This horse was over 7 on here in September (sadly not for very much) for the Arkle when there was talk of the Champion Hurdle. Some things aren't written in the form book. |
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indeed, always thought they would go chasing
much more fun |
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"Simonsig was impressive but doesn't bend his back as well as Captain Conan and will need to pick up his rear end better to realise full potential"
Steeplechasing, please head to Specsavers for Christmas. The horse jumped flawlessly, and would leave Captain Slowman in his wake in the Arkle. There is a massive gulf in ability between these two horses. 5/2 in a place is more than fair IMO. He jumped well, I'm not arguing about that. Nor am I saying CC will beat him, only that, from what we've seen so far, CC is the better jumper imo - he is more athletic and doesn't drag his hind legs through the top in the way Simonsig did today (reminiscent of Long Run's style and a technique that can get them into trouble under pressure). It could well be that his engine will be enough to compensate for an imperfect technique but Overturn is no slouch and jumped like a wizard at Sandown. He has strong festival form and would be my EW choice given Simonsig's price. As you say, it's all about opinions. |
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very interesting....
I'll crack the jokes in regards the cutting of the horses price into 2-1 favourite for the arkle 6-4 with paddy joke bet...a joke if ever there was one in what we saw today...very funny in beating a drain a distance...both dangers fell early and the horse jumped very steeply for me early in the race...yes he jumped well but to be convinced to back at 2-1 for the arkle is ridiculous...he showed his well being yes but didn't warrant a fall scale cutting of the price... for me there is a big angle into the race now with the hype wagon well and truly in motion steeplechasing is spot on but am keen to get the mud lark captain conan anyways... now is the time to get right pumped into oscars well who is a complete overlay here at 10-1 the plot thickens  |
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why on earth would anyone dismiss a horse cos hes 9??
im pretty sure the likes of Moscow Flyer would have won the arkle at 9 if he had gone chasing a year later. the reason the stats are against 9 yr olds is cos not many have gone for it. to me his extra race experience does him no harm whatsoever,in fact the opposite imo, he jumps well on what weve seen so far,and has top class hurdling form, big player,has to be. |
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Harry,
it great having a hyped superstar in a novice chase,makes the prices elsewhere more generous than they should be,just love it. if hes another Sprinter Sacre,so be it,but right now hes a once raced novice chaser,no better than 2 or 3 weve already seen. |
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He is ridiculously short but I wouldn't want to lay him. I'm very interested to see who takes him on in the one or more likely two races he has before the Arkle. He may well go into the Arkle without the gun having been put to his head.
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If he is as good as the hype, how many times a year would he clash with Sprinter next year, given they are in same yard? Only once in March?
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Steeplechasing - fair enough. Personally I didn't notice him dragging his legs through the fences but we all see things differently. Good Luck
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suitably impressive exciting prospect was what i thought of that , i can well see him being as good in the arkle as his housemate sprinter sacre which could make the champion chase and tingle creeks beyond march 2014 something to really look forward to. in racing there is nothing to quite compare with two fantastic two milers taking each other on at a blistering pace here's hoping!
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yeh he did look impressive,but imo no more impressive than Overturn and Arvika were.
we will find out more in the coming weeks. |
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gold cup they won't ever meet... simonsig will go up in trip next year for sure..
budd agree entirely about overturn age wise and he should not be dismissed at all as is thoroughly likeable top class proper racehorse...he still needs to improve but has done his whole career and took to fences well at sandown... the ground is scuppering his preparation however and they will be desperate to get some more practice into him soon but i'm afraid there hand will be forced soon as he will need 2 more runs I would say having watched the race 3 times now I will be very interested to see simonsig have to jump at 2 mile pace...he is no sprinter sacre who is and was as a novice a top class jumper, extremely fluent...this fellow isn't going to find life so easy at 2 mile championship pace imo still cannot believe the price cut will be betting coupled here at these prices for the arkle which is now a top priority ante post race... lets hope the oscar puts it up to the down in trip arvika ligeonaire who still hasn't had to go short at a fence yet but he will over the minimum trip and will be watching this race with interest as one bubble will be burst if the other wins easily... |
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it's called 'taking a stand for what you believe' and it's a matter of forming a betting position and as I have repeatedly explained it is a long term strategy so I will be dismissing 5yos in the Champion Hurdle, horses older than 10 in the Gold Cup and various others along the way
of course each horse in a race has a finite chance of winning |
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and thats fair enough Judo,nowt wrong with having your own methods,and whatever methods we use,as long as we take it when it goes wrong,then thats fine.
When you do take a stand as rigid as that,then its fair to expect debates. And thats healthy for us all. |
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judo I agree with some trends as they are right for a reason as you point out...
but in regards this fellow I have spoken to a friend who does trends for a living and he told me that hardly any 9 year olds with a chance have lined up and had to go back to 1988 when danish flight won as a 9 year old...but was very clear that not many with any chance had tried so a tad of caution here pal i'd say |
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i am very confident in Simonsig for the arkle. i have him at 6/1 from october and feel very smug. he did remind me of sprinter sacrs with his jumping. i thought it was perfect and you could actually see him quicken about 8-10 strides fromn the fence like he was loving every second of it. the one thing he has over SS if that we know for a fact that he stays. simonsig was rated 11 lb higher that SS over hurdles and if the race works out as expected with overturn and arvika going at it up front Simonsig can just wait and take it up as far out as he wants because there is no doubt about him getting home.
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giggsy,
they might be better horses than him mate,we dont know yet. |
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Whilst the race lost any potential real value down the back, Simonsig pulled like a train and still finished full of running. Its clear he still has the engine. He jumped with enthusiasm and he was very quick over the fences.
However I'd want to see him jumping at speed. We know he took the odd liberty at a hurdle and the way he jumped a fence, exciting as it was, could easily see him do the same in a chase that could have the obvious consequences. No doubting his talent though. Interesting to see where they point him next |
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I was very taken by his performance the other day, and won like he was entitled to.
This is deja vu from last year with Sprinter, Peddlers and Al Ferof. Peddlers was by far the highest rated hurdler, but that was because Sprinter was never allowed to fulfill his potential over hurdles. This is the same with Simonsig; I'm sure he could acheive a rating as good as, or better than Overturn, if he was allowed to carry on over hurdles. Simonsig is ticking all the boxes for me at the moment, apart from price. There is a degree of hype about him, but he has proved he has the ability to back that up from last year. |
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chief,
you are absolutey bang on in your remarks re the hurdles ratings,although when horses that have run over hurdles at a high level it does no harm.It does give us a guide as to how classy a horse is,but the main thing for me is the fact that a horse shows he can jump fences well enough. If a horse does that and was a classy hurdler as well,it all bodes well. Looking at the front 4 in the betting and their respective chase performances,i honestly dont see one at around 2's and the others at much bigger prices. More than happy with that though. |
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Very true Budd, that it definitely doesn't do any harm and is a good guide.
I've learnt my lesson from last year re Peddlers and Sprinter. Peddlers was my main bet of the festival at 14/1, because I used his hurdles form as putting him miles clear of the rest. It was only when Sprinter stuffed him, and reading posts off a few shrewdies on here, that I realised that you couldn't use Sprinter's and Al Ferof's hurdles rating too literally because they were only novices. The only thing about the first few in the betting is that a lot of them haven't really beat anything yet. Captian Conan and Arvika Legionniere are the only two have faced anything remotely decent. Simonsig was 2/9, Overturn 30/100, Oscars Well 1/2, 8/11 and 8/15; so all three of them should have won as they pleased. It won't be until some of the bigger guns meet each other that we will find anything out. If they keep beating trees then we'll have glorified schooling sessions until the Tuesday at the festival. Although looking forward to Avrika vs Oscarss Well (although I think one of them will end up in the Jewson with Captain Conan). |
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I wont be backing him for the Arkle at 2s but this horse has the sky as his limit, as I and others have been posting for more than 18 months. His engine is very rare I think and he is in the right hands to make the grade as a chaser in the long term. He jumped super for me, low and accurate. Next time out will be interesting but I sincerely hope he does contnue on the right path because IMO he can do anything i believe in the NH game. What a scopey, rangey, classy, handsome horse.
I respect Arvika strongly and Nicholls has hyped Fago but I would be against Overturn. |
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Arvika looks a scrappy jumper to me - of the Irish I'd prefer Oscars Well
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Really liked Oscars but his last two chasing efforts have been shocking in the jumping department
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Got in close to the 4th last lto but other than that went long or short when asked and really can't see what he has done wrong other than his non jump on his 2nd start myself.
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Yep, I think OW jumps fine, certainly better than AL.
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AL very straight backed at his fences but he was fast enough over them,Think OW needs something to tow him into the race as lto he was looking around throughout and AL can give him something to focus on and go after,Should be a informative race regarding each horses respective targets/Chances at festival glory.
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In again tomorro
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another schooling session tomorrow. hopefuly they all get round.
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£10k waiting to back him for the Arkle on here 2.9
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can see simonsig being a top priced 6/4 by end of the day
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henderson says he's going to have one more run in January after today then freshen him up for March.
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even money
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Where are those ar*eholes who said this horse couldn't jump? Just think what he'll be like on decent ground - he would have hated this.
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even money
You surprised duffy? What's going to take him on? Overturn....anything else? I don't think NJH will be worried about Overturn - in fact, they'll be grateful for the lead. |
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I was a little surprised at first, but when you give it a moments thought, not anymore...mccain is too scared to run his horse for one thing so I don't know if even overturn will turn up against him.
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I've got 7-1 him to be undefeated for the year with Hills
 Bit of 5-2 for the Arkle |