cause and effect, I believe Captain Chris benefitted with staying well away from the battles up front. Long Run and Champ Court took eachother on and the latter cracked, Long Run then idles, CC comes to challenge and jumps the last much better. Long Run then pick up and stays on to win.

I thing Long Run is the most dour stayer I'll ever see in my life. We'll never ever see the bottom of him. He just lacks any gears and need a ferocious end to end gallop to be seen at his best. Look at the 2011 King George, Kauto went like the clappers down the back and only won because his jumped is pure magic. Long Run galloped on relentlessy but the line came for Kauto. It was a demonstration of pure genius riding by Ruby Walsh. His best ever ride imv.

Long Run suffered terribly by Kauto pulling up in Gold Cup, the pace plummeted at end of the first circuit when he'd pulled up, from top of hill to the stands was 6s slower than 2011 race. But the race up until then and on the final circuit were run in indentical times. This gave a huge mid race breather for the filed and resulted in the bunch finish sprint at the end.

Long Run, is a seriously talented stayer. If he gets his jumping right and a fierce gallop in Gold Cup he's a huge danger.

Bit of a tangent there.

Yep agree with your views on those races.

I've just watched the Cleeve and World Hurdle back from last year and feel there are a number of notable points to be made regarding Dynaste and his ability to see out 3M in a proper test:

1. The Cleeve was run at a far, far slower pace than the World Hurdle. The Cleeve was 13.5 seconds slower and this for me played into the hands of Dynaste and not Big Buck's, hence the reason why Dynaste was able to get so close and look such a good stayer. He has absolutely on his legs two out in the World Hurdle yet people were saying OW wasn't a stayer, who put in a far superior performance.

2. Dynaste has a very high knee action. If we get soft ground he might get away with it but IF it comes up good, he wont act as well and this of course dramatically affects his chances.

3. The key reason for people saying he will bust the stats this year is lack of credible opposition, and it's hard to disagree. We don't appear to have anything of Bob's Worth's class BUT Ruby knows how to beat Dynaste. Boston Bob will stay all day and as long as we get a decent pace, he will kick a long way from home, just as he did with Big Buck's in the World Hurdle. He may not be as good as was thought, but the JP Moriarty has shown how he needs to be ridden and they will make the most of him. I also genuinely believe Boston Bob will be better on good ground.

I love these debates and everyone's entitled to their opinion. For me if it's soft and the race is allowed to go at a crawl, Dynaste may be near impossible to beat. However, if we get goodish ground and a proper champion pace, I think the white flag will be raised turning for home

will  RW even be on BB??

Know he could end up on Unioniste but i'd be surprised.

it wouldnt suprise me one bit

Maybe. I've just watched back Unioniste's two runs this year and BB's last race.

At the time I was in shock that BB almost lost but it turns into a sprint for home turning the home bend which has one fence and can only be a few furlongs. I've never been more convinced that a fast pace, hill and extra 3F will suit BB.

If it's allowed to turn into a sprint finish then Dynaste will win doing handstands. Logic tells you that it wont though

if you are right the current 8.6 BB would seem generous, no?

I am gonna have to go in at this price. Very little else is suggesting itself to me. Something in my unconscious putting me off Unioniste (Dom Alco???) and after that... RC unlikely runner.

Can envisage BB coming up the hill

Bill Shankly would probably say that the RSA does not suit the Drury Lane dancers especially if there is proper pace in the race. Perhaps WM will have another runner in the race also.

bud that's the thing with the RSA, forget who looks good in trials, look at the RSA profile. What horse most looks like an RSA winner, not who looks like the best horse. Dynaste looks a far better horse than this lot. But Grands Crus looked a better stayer over hurdles, he beat 2 of the favourites for Gold Cup at Kempton, he ran his only good race this year in the King George too.

Kempton is Kempton, 3m round there is not 3m round Cheltenham. They go a fierce gallop at Cheltenham and the race is littered with stayers. You simply want to back the best stayer. Nothing else.

So you need to forget this best horse mentality. Go with the best RSA profile horse.

The no prep run is the main reason why i dislike him as well

Perhaps those examples who were better hurdlers imo simply didn't cut it as chasers. Perhaps, just perhaps, Dynaste as not such a good hurdler will.

As I say I will find it amusing if he wins though I won't have a bean on him in RSA

They did cut it as chasers though, that's the point, going into the RSA just as seemingly bulletproof as Dynaste before flopping:
Punchestowns 2 from 2 over fences and 2/1f on the day
Time For Rupert 2 from 2 over fences and 7/4f on the day
Grands Crus 3 from 3 over fences and 6/5f on the day

All had hacked up on all their chase starts prior to the RSA and appeared no less obvious winners of the RSA than Dynaste.

Agree with your final point though - admittedly I will look a right tit should he now win!

I don't think many people thought Bostons angel would beat TFR but he did. Not top class by any stretch but perfect for the RSA and was top stats pick for the race

A lack of prep beat Time for Rupert. Now, that doesn't mean to say that he merely lost because he didn't have a run after December, but not having a run beforehand can sometimes indicate problems with the horse, which you might not hear about. No way was Bostons Angel 5L better than Rupert, so there was something amiss, which proved to be the case as he was never travelling.

fascinating discussions you guys!

this thread is almost identical as last year's Arkle, 9 out of 10 posters were adamant that Sprinter Sacre would not get up the hill, class told in the end, that could be the case with Dynaste. cheers.

indeed

and the people who thought SS vwould get beat were by far in the minority. They just posted on and on about it.

this thread is almost identical as last year's Arkle, 9 out of 10 posters were adamant that Sprinter Sacre would not get up the hill, class told in the end, that could be the case with Dynaste. cheers

i think he,ll bolt up the hill in the jewson just not in the rsa.... taa