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Great stuff EC as ever.I agree the Keighley horse is way too big at 50s, didn't think he was off a yard last time and he didn't jump very well either, though that was probably down to the pilot strangling him !
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Great write up EC.
Boston Bob is my standout novice of the season and I will back him wherever he goes. I actually think this would be the right race for him as he looks to have stamina in abundance. If he does I think he will be very hard to beat. Agree it makes sense to concentrate on horse only going for this race though, and he one I like is Rocky Creek. Andy Stewart has talked about him in glowing terms and he thought he won the Doncaster trial very impressively. I acnt help but feel Sea of Thunder wont quite be up to this standard myself. |
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Hadnt really noticed Hard to Swallow. Just had a look through his form. Looks a very good shout at the prices indeed!
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Agreed, Sea of Thunder looked ordinary in behind last week behind Bostob Bob regardless of ground conditions so i can have him irrespective of price..
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Totally agree EC, 2 of my 3 ante-post bets for this race being Sea Of Thunder and Hard To Swallow (third being Mount Benbulben). Hard To Swallow will run a good race at the festival but he may go for the Pertemps instead (i'd say he's more likely to go for the AB because connections also have Wolf Moon who could go for the Pertemps)and at 50/1 its worth the risk!
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Agree with Boston Bob but just wouldn't want to second guess Willie at the moment. With regards to Sea of Thunder, last week was a completely different test to that of Cheltenham and I think it is harsh to judge him on it.
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The mixing of Our Vic with a Supreme Leader mare has yielded 13 runners on the race track but among them are this lad, 1833, Sonofvic and the potentially very smart Folsom Blue. They are all stayers so I'm inclined so say he'll be much better over 3m than the 2m4f that he faced last weekend.
Also 1833 and Sonofvic are both very backward horses, which may be a reason to suggest Sea of Thunder is now only coming into his own at the age of 7 which some experience on his back. SEB - Didn't realised he was Qualified? Was he in the qualifier that got abandoned at Carlisle?! His mark of 130 looks very tasty, but then again I think that mark would mean he usually wouldn't make the cut, so hopefully the AB will be the aim |
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According to the trainer both Hard To Swallow and Wolf Moon were entered in the abandoned qualifier. Wolf Moon doesn't have much room off his hurdles mark of 132 but he's not a natural jumper so I think he will go for the Pertemps leaving Hard To Swallow for the AB.
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What a peoples view on ballyrock?
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CCM although I like Rocky Creek as a horse I think this race may just come a bit too soon for him. He's only had two starts under rules and I'm not sure if he'll be streetwise enough to take this on just his third start.
It would be worry me he struggled for pace in a weak race on his debut over 22f when met with good ground. He looked better on softer ground last time but I'm not sure how much I rate the horse who came second giving him weight. His brother, Tell Massini, looked far more comfortable on softer ground and disappointed when favourite in this two years ago when he first met decent ground. In Mark Howard's One Jump Ahead, 'Irish Point Expert' Declan Phelan described him as likely to develop into a "130-150 type staying chaser, capable of a decent crack at one of the Grand Nationals". You get a lot of old fashioned chasing types running in this (because of the trip and connections think they might as well run as it's Cheltenham) which it seems is what he is, but looking at the past renewals that type of horse has a poor record in this race (joint together, tell massini etc.) especially when run on better ground. |
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Excellent write up.
My worry with Sea of Thunder is his jumping. Doesn't seem to get away from the hurdles too quick and has made some serious errors, including the fall. Even last time, although difficult to see in the gloom he seemed to back away from a few hurdles. If he were a better jumper I'd be backing him, but it does worry me. |
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Malcom at the moment to be honest I don't have much of a view on Ballyrock so at the prices I'm happy to leave him alone. He could be good but I don't know how much you can draw from a 5 runner race on soft ground. I'd like to see him again before forming a proper opinion, but wouldn't put you off if you fancy him.
It would worry me though that the stable allowed him to go off 25/1 in novice hurdle (Hereford) if they thought he was anywhere near Grade 1 class. They thought he would come on that day for the run, but you still wouldn't have him anywhere near that price in a Hereford novice hurdle if you thought he was half decent. |
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EC, what's your opinion on Dedigout in this ? Up 4f is surely going to suit this Bob Back out of a Buckskin mare and better ground being a Bob Back. Gigginstown have got a few in this so second guessing them is probably not a good strategy, although it's not beyond the realms for them to run 2 or 3 in the each of the novice races such is the strength they have.
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Great write up Extreme.....Actually I'll put up one not many will think of....Gullinbursti. Ran very well behind a well though of Nicholls?Andy Syewart horse (Rocky Creek).. Gullinbursti gave the Nicholls horse 4lb for a 3 length beating. Emma Lavelle loves the horse and has stated as a intended runner in this. In fact the horse missed a week of work prior to the race so believes he will improve (I have backed him at 36s but he is now 27s....still good value)
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Extreme Conviction - re HTS
All of the yard horses that went to Perth for his first run were seriously wrong - HTS, Champion Court etc His fall in the Persian War was very heavy, and the trainer has done a great job getting him back this season. Both his runs since have been confidence boosters from which he has returned very fresh. Hopefully he will run in the AB - that is the race of preference. If however he doesnt get in, he would be thrown in for the Pertemps off his current mark, particularly if the going is good. |
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Thanks Springmoon. May I ask, are you a connection of the horse?
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I've taken the last of the 14s Rocky Creek with Hills today.
I was fortunate enough to be at a dinner with Andy Stewart last Autumn and he told me he had just bought this horse and was very excited about him, in fact he said he though the horse was the best 5yo he'd ever owned - connections were very disappointed when he failed to settle at Exeter and was beaten on his debut but they put him away and worked on him for a while, he came out and won at Donny last weekend and I'm led to believe they think there's a hell of alot more to come. |
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Great post EC, very enojoyable. Big fan of Rocky and Mount Benbulben though the last run was disappointing.
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Thanks for the reply EC. You make some very valid points. I did actually look at Dr Massini as a sire, and thought the ground could well be an issue. It may also come a bit too soon for him.
But I just really like the look of him, and was very taken with the Donny performance. |
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Liam to be honest I don't know that much about Dedigout so wouldn't like to pass judgement. Gigginstown have a cracking record at the festival, but the key seems to be finding those who will improve for the better ground at the festival. Like I say I haven't watched him enough to pass judgement on that, but Bob Backs seem pretty adaptable with regards to conditions underfoot. Will be interesting to see if he is allowed to take part in the Deloitte on Saturday.
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However, the fact that his prep is going to be over 2m2f, doesn't fill me with confidence he'll be aimed at the Albert Bartlett at the festival, when he is also still engaged in the Neptune
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outstanding thread & follow up comments EC
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Thanks bestmate, appreciate it
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I think Mount Benbulben is a standout bet here - tremendous form and heading straight to the Festival with this race his guaranteed target. This one beat Lovehtehigherlaw by 7l in a bumper last season and since then has only been beaten when slipping up on the flat and when finding Boston Bob four and a half lengths too good last time. That form alone makes him a very solid player (seeing as that one went and defied a 10lb penalty in a really good race and will be favourite in whatever he runs in at Cheltenham), but it's even more meritorious when you hear that he came back from it a sick horse and very sore. In good nick again now, being prepared for the Festival by a very shrewd trainer - I just can't believe he is available at 12-1. For all that Sea Of Thunder is very promising and a real stayer, I doubt he would have the class to get within 5l of Boston Bob over two and a half miles.
Get on! |
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Yes, really good thread, a very enjoyable read and very informative. The two I have got for this race are Sea of Thunder and Folsom Blue. I will be adding HTS. Feel free to turn your thoughts to the Supreme
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nice thread extreme !
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nice thread extreme !
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Nice write up.
The ill fated Tell Massini scoped dirty after his defeat in the Albert Bartlett didn't he? Plus the ground might of been described as good that day, but I remember it being tacky. Not sure why people think that Dr Massini's progeny don't act on better ground either: they have 12% SR for both good, and good to firm, compared to only 8% on heavy, soft, and good to soft. You might argue with me that this is including all the horses that have run on the flat, and that they jump better out of softer ground. However, his best progeny over jumps have shown better form on quicker ground imo e.g. Master Medic, Fix The Rib, Psycho, Massini's Maguire, Clopf - these are his 5 highest rated progeny over jumps, and they all loved quicker ground. Every horse is different, but I don't believe Rocky Creek lost on his hurdling debut because of the good ground. He's just a backward horse, or he was a backward horse. I agree about Sea Of Thunder though, the better ground and trip will be right up his street. After all my harking on, the ground will probably be heavy come race time now All the best. P.S I've obviously backed Rocky Creek! |
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Backed Hard to Swallow on every run this season, really like the horse. If we knew the AB was the intended target he would be a massive price, I'm worried they'll go handicapping instead though.
I've backed Rocky Creek and Sea of Thunder in this so more than happy with my bets at this stage |
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Im remaining loyal to Emma Lavelle and had a few quid on Gullinbursti. He has a 4lb pull in the weights from the run behind Rocky Creek, and whilst that is not necessarily enough to see him turn the tables, he did travel like the best horse in the race and was last off the bridle, so if the trainer reports him to have missed some work due to stepping on a slipped shoe, then there is a chance he could improve for that run in terms of fitness.
I backed Court In Motion for this last year, also trained by Emma Lavelle, who finished 3rd at a nice price and he had no previous Cheltenham course form, so it does not concern me so much. At 33/1 I dont mind being wrong. |
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i think its fair to say that anything jack doyle rides is last off the bridle, even if its not going well
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Bluebirdfan - HTS is definitely targeting the A Bartlett
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Bluebirdfan - HTS is definitely targeting the A Bartlett
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Bluebirdfan - HTS is definitely targeting the A Bartlett
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Does anyone know if HTS is definitely targeting the A Bartlett?
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marychain1 - HTS is definitely targeting the A Bartlett
In all seriousness, am struggling to see how the Rocky Creek/Gullinbursti form compares to being beaten less than 5 lengths by Boston Bob off levels when not at your best - cannot understand why Mount Benbulben is 12/1 for this. |
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Tom, I am a big fan of Mount too.
What do you think about his tendency to go right LTO - attributable to whatever physical issue was wrong with him? From memory it had not surfaced before, so possibly. That is the main thing that puts me off for the AB at the Festival. I also think Boston is a serious horse - I am not sure Mount would reverse the form, which also puts me off Mount in March. Is BB definately going for the Neptune? |
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Hi R Carver - hope you're doing well.
I am indeed attributing the right-handed jumping to being sore. Dangerous to assume what you hear is true, but that was what connections put it down to, and as it was the first sign of it I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. In truth, I suspect BB wins this if he runs in it but my personal feeling is that he will go for the Neptune. Just think Mullins usually sends his best novice that way and I get the impression they think this one is a really serious tool. Either way, I cannot see how MB won't be second-favourite at worst on the day, so you should have the option to trade out for a serious free bet. The form just looks a cut above the English staying youngsters to me. |
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Agree with Benbulben hopefully sorted probs from lto, and if Boston Bob goes and wins Neptune this will go off about 5/1.
Great summary Extreme look forward if you do anymore mate and good luck at Festival. |