World Hurdle 2012

Yeah, Is Oscar Whiskey really the classiest he will have faced? Punchestowns was very highly regarded, then this year Grand Crus was going to beat him....
Even if OW is the classiest, he still won't beat the best horse in training.

BB has not faced an Aintree Hurdle winner and good 3rd in a Churdle.Stands to reason if he stays he is his biggest threat yet.Stable is confident he stays well,i am saying if he does he will imo beat BB.
As for Thousand Stars,as i have said i thought he was going for the Arkle,but i agree he is interesting if he stays hurdling and goes over 3m.

Albion,
Surely you must agree that Grand Crus and Punchestowns had nothing like Oscar Whiskeys form when facing BB.
Yes they had good form over 3m and were worthy competitors,but no real class form that OW has.
To me its just a case of him staying,cos we know he has the class,its in the form book.

There is always one budd. At the start of last year people were saying Zaynar, as a triumph winner and champ hurdle 3rd was going to stick it to him. Now i know Zaynar is a dog, but you know what I am saying.

Grand Crus had handicap form and a mince Cleeve. fair enough he looked impressive in doing so

Punchestowns at least had a grade 1 to his name, but again it was a poor renewal of that race. Classy on his day no doubt

Oscar Whisky has beaten genuine grade 1 horses and Thousand Stars is a very useful marker. Ok the trip is a question but the residual class is there.


All that said, it will take an unbelievable performance to dethrone Big Buck's, and I doubt there is a horse capable of doing that. I firmly believe that Oscar Whisky will be his biggest threat though

i think thousand stars was the best horse in the aintree g1 and should have won. regardless, oscar whiskey wont win anyhow. the most they can hope for is to get him off the bridle. the form of the cleeve hurdle is solid i think, beating a subsequent easy winner very easily. this isnt the first time folk go on about big bucks so called toughest ever task and it wont be the last.

Im just stating facts,whether OW can beat BB is of course the biq question.I happen to think he has the class to do it,but i do recognise the champion 3 miler.
Its just possible that OW will prove better than BB next season,at the prices i am willing to have a go that he will be.
Reve,to say he wont win anyhow is a bit silly mate.You have no idea how OW will be over 3m,but you do know he has class.

he wont win if bb turns up alive

Jesus buddeliea,Do you Realise what OW is Coming Up against,You're Clueless in the Extreme if u really Think OW is gonna beat BB Next Season,
Big Bucks has Won 12 Races in a Row,SEVEN of Which are GRADE 1s
Hope This Helps

I really think OW has a serious chance if he stays 3m,what BB has done in the past at this distance is great,but i aint clueless to think he can be beaten if the right horse comes along.I happen to think that horse could well be OW.Like i hgave said OW is a class act proven,in those races BB has not faced one with that sort of class.
I am well aware of BB's record,i dont need your help thanks.
By the way did you actually think i was serious about Arkle??(the horse that is,not the race)

Big Buck's is getting older. His sire's progeny don't tend to age well. He's a horse, not a motor car. Sooner or later, something is going to beat him.

It may not be OW. It may not be this year. But it's going to happen.

strot, i agree hes goin to be beat some day and everyone who lumps on will be skint, but hes only 8 and i think its reasonable to expect him to be at his best for the next 2 or 3 years at least. i wont be lumping on but i think its a formality yet again this year, regardless of what turns up

I dont see him being a force at 10 Reve - whilst he is a great I reckon 2013 will be a case of the king is dead long live the king.

theres no reason why he wouldnt be i think. he never has a hard race, no falls, light campaign. what makes you think he will die off?

Oscar Whiskey Will have to the Best Stayer of all time to dethrone Big Bucks,it's just not going to happen,not next season anyway,obviously if you keep firing bullets at Big Bucks to be beat,he inivetibly will one day when age Catches up with him,So thats the only thing that will get him beat is HIMSELF and OLD AGE

Bold statements like that are risky in this game,always advisable to keep an eye on the up and coming horses,never know for sure.
I aint saying it WILL happen next season,but i do think it very possible if the right horse or indeed horses come along.OW and TStars if he goes this route are 2 very interesting horses that have proven class form,just dismissing them with the attitude that BB is unbeatable could be a tad foolish.
BB has proved unbeatable so far-fair play,but the future?? I for one am open minded.

5-1 with laddys to remain unbeaten b4 he retires

^ one of the worst bets i've ever seen

unbeatable fact

i wouldn't right off grand crus....consider the progress that horse has made in the whole of last season and with hopefully more to come , maybe he could do it...iris's gift got close to baracouda before he nailed him the year later.....coincidentally iris's and baracouda were 6 and 8 years old respectively when baracouda won......before iris's got revenge a year later....the same as BB and grand crus...perhaps.

one of the worse bets i have seen as well.

grand crus is not beyond a better performance next season,totally agree,just think that OW is the one with the class that could topple BB.

Isn't Grand Crus going chasing anyway?

yes thought GC was going chasing also.

Only concern about Oscars is we said the same thing about Zaynar last year - Triumph Winner and CH 3rd form rock solid etc if it stays 3miles...

Ow is different class to Zaynar though,but take your point.

id give up looking to find a horse trying to beat The Buckster if he maintains his current level its a matte rof who could finish 2nd.

agree howdi but thats no fun

salute a legend imo bravado. I'm dissapointed he isnt going chasing that would do wonders for the sport and he could join the all time greats (arkle, dessie, kauto et al

i aint looking,i think one has come along.

if connections thought he could be a success at chasing then surely thats where he would go.at the moment he looks like being remembered for winning world hurdles,the lesser of the main events behind CH,QM and the Gold Cup.
They would give the Gold Cup a go if they thought he could jump well enough imo.
He has nothing left to prove at 3m hurdling,and owner would love a GC winner,yet staying hurdling.
And hes going to get beat at that!!
[;)]

He's tried chasing. He wasn't particularly good at it.

aye strot, tis true. as andy stewart rightly said, if he went chasing time for rupert would give him the run around. world hurdle is easy pickings

those pickings will not be so easy next march i suspect

dont get me wrong howdi i consider thoe horse a legend at 3m but doesnt mean i cant try to get it beat

youre entitled to your opinion budd, but your wrong only jokin! who knows what will happen, i think bb will be prickin his ears at the last again after stoppin for a **** down the back. binoculars wont find the rest

yeh i could well be wrong,but like you say who knows what will happen.I do have a good feeling about OW,but he does have a serious horse to beat no doubt.Be great for us if OW or maybe TS could prove during the season they stay 3m well with their obvious class,would add real excitement to the festival.

ts should anyhow, french champ hurdle was 3m i think wasnt it? mixed pace in france tho thats the only thing, but id say both should stay!

if you fancy oscar whisky you re basically saying he is the best 3 miler hurdler in history

he'll win 5 of these things then people will say on here he was a good horse.

Howdi,
Wheres the evidence that Big Bucks is the best 3m hurdler in history??
Just an opinion that cannot be proved as far as i am concerned.

We already know hes a good horse,hes very good,but that dont mean he will stay at the top of this division for another couple of years,and that another horse cannot come along and beat him.

If OW beats him next March it means he was the better horse on the day,maybe the better horse full stop.
He would have to do more to be the best in history.

Look at the history books Budd it suggests he is. I loved Inglis battler and a half like old Hardy Eustace but this bugger doesn't need to try

Racing should lay some races on - and make him carry two stone more than the opposition - sadly handicaps thing of the past for the top horses so you'll never really know.

Why Arkle (and rightly so) regarded as the greatest because he gave lumps away and still gave them a doing - Dessie did to to a lesser extent and Denman to an even lesser extent.

^ Exactly why I adore Denman so much Too young to be around for Dessie

Would have liked to have seen Kauto Star in the RP Chase in his pomp, if it wasn't for the bloody festival a month later 

Howdi,
      Baracouda,Inglis,Iris's Gift are 3 that i would say would have been interesting against Big Bucks.No idea who would win when all at their peak,but no given that BB would have imo.
No doubt their are others over the years.

Take a look at the time of the race when Baracouda beat Iris.
Pretty impressive compared to Bucksy.
Not a defining factor,times,but nevertheless evidence that Baracouda and Iris were bl00dy good on their day.

I'll have evens The Buckster against all them budd

That would be some race my friend

old Barracouda was a star and easily forgotten - he trotted round as easily as bucks in his day

old Barracouda was a star and easily forgotten - he trotted round as easily as bucks in his day

He did,and i would wager against better opposition.

but bucks never been off the bit

ah yes he has, just not last season, Punchestowns defo had him off the bridle twice 09'

To do the time that Iris and Baracouda recorded,Bucksy would have been off the bit for sure.

Neil,i think Howdi forgot about Punchy.

Only his laziness has ever got him off the bit over hurdles [:p]

He better not be lazy with Oscar around!!
[;)]

We should all forget Punchy, unless Chemical Nicky sorts him out

I only remember because I was screaming him on

I honestly think his lack of flat spots nowadays is just due to him growing up mentally, rather than him getting better.

ive been going to the Festival for 15 years and have enjoyed watching these great stayers but am really convinced that Big Bucks is the best we have seen.
I can promise u this isnt pocket talk as i had a big bet on Punchestowns who was much better off at the weights if memory serves me right.
But for pure emotion Inglis Drevers 3rd Stayers Hurdle tops anything i think ive ever witnessed there i swear the roof nearly came off the grandstand!!!

I cheered him on as well,and i also backed him when he beat Rupert,but to say hes the best we have seen is definitely open to question,especially when you see the time that Baracouda and Iris achieved.

that was a shake of the reigns ffs

ya probably in hindsight

Have oscar whisky fans admitted defeat yet?

for those of you who dont know Thosand Stars having a crack at the legend this season. The engraver has already started engraving the silver medal.

We shall see,both OW and TS could well be the best BB has faced yet.Both got top class hurdle form.
Still excited about OW,no towel being thrown in from me for sure.

get the towel ready lads.

Tell you what Howdi,if both turn up on the day i suspect that no towel will be seen till near the end,and that towel may well be coloured Red white and Black!!

they will name a stand after Big Bucks soon. He'll win six of these first though

you are a funny chap Howdi

Big Bucks Stand
Best Mate Enclosure
Kauto Star Village
Oscar Whisky Disabled WC's

nowt wrong with a disabled WC,much more important than a stand,and a darn sight more useful

Anyone have any other horses that could come out of the woodwork for this race?

he won't but would be nice to see Solwhit give it a go

yep,he would certainly be interesting.maybe if he fails at chasing??

Should change the name of this thread to the Buddy and Howdi show. We both spend all summer talking about it rather than watching it

excuse me if im smug tonight backed overs in the real v barca game at 2.1 went for a pi55 to find it at 1.16 laid off and sitting here with a fat one rolled up - couldnt give a feck what the score ends up now

ha ha nice one.

cant help myself Howdi,just love the festival and the build up, as far as i'm concerned it all starts as soon as the debates start.
SAd maybe,but there yer go.

I'm the same pal. Although I have to hold myself back a little as I find once it all starts sometimes my mind is a little too closed and I have almost over analysed that said I'm currently going through last year Bumpers form

Surely Thousand Stars isn't in the class of Big Bucks - and he's not going to have Ruby either.

Well his form over shorter distance is top class,so if he stays 3m then he must be in with a shout.

Wouldn't have thought that of the 4 championship races, that the Stayers would have had the most debate

^with one big player and two other contenders it's easier for people to focus on [;)]

Budd - Maybe. I think he'll have to improve for the step up in trip though (but he stayed on well over 2 m). Or you have to argue that Hurrican Fly is a lot better than Big Buck's.

FFT,
Think a lot of it is cos people wont hear of defeat for Big Bucks,so when someone dares to suggest that one or two could challenge him,it gets them going.

Stron,
Put it this way if HF stayed 3m i would expect him to beat BB,at 2m4 i am pretty sure HF would win and pretty comfortably imo. Therefore i expect both Oscar and TS to challenge BB very strongly should they stay 3m.

budd budd budd,you really should stop trying to get BB beat,will never happen,those rags above^ would not get near him given a 3f head start

Budd is one of my favourite posters on here, a NH purist and a top judge. He is right to say keep an open mind in this game. However, just a few more reasons why I think Big Bucks is as good as they come and better than any stayer in recent times - versatility. He acts on any track - Aintree (which Inglis Drever hated) to Cheltenham, and handles any all types of ground. His level hardly varies too - even at Aintree, he is not over the top. He can handle a fast pace (he prefers it even) and he can handle a crawl (like this yr's renewal of the World Hurdle). Magnificent. I'll not be bakcing Big Bucks at likely prices, but not sure i'll be opposing him (though I think Budd's love for Oscar Whisky is not misplaced). It is true he has not proven himself right handed, but he has not been asked to, and since he can be well campaigned without going right, who can complain.

Big Buck's is a true, true champion, but it's complete ignorance to say he can't be beaten imo, although he probably wont

Only doubt in my mind is that Cadoudal's really don't age well and BB is the oldest serious winner he has sired. Could point to a serious drop off. Only issue is when.... (I won't  be paying to find out)

Stron,
It would not cost a lot to back OW at current price,and should he have a good season its probable he will be shorter nearer the day,so he becomes a trade if nothing else.
Sometimes in this game i get a good feeling about a horse,and i have that with OW.He stays 2m4 well,and after visiting the yard i get the impression that they are very confident he will stay 3m well,and with his form last season in the CH and at Aintree,i just think he could be the one to topple Bucksy.
As RC says,Bucksy is the ultimate 3m hurdler and will take an awful lot of beating,and i like everyone else recognise him as one of or the best at staying hurdling we have seen,but should OW prove to stay 3m early in the season,then their will be supporters of Bucksy getting a few concerns.And with the class of OW over shorter distance they would be right to.

I know this is not an Oscaw Whisky thread, but Budd where do you think he'll start? Ascot, in the race Siviniaco Conti won - that stable had done well in over the yrs.. I agree with you, Oscar is a live outsider.

Cheltenham have mooted introducing a G1 2 1/5 mile race (which is a shame IMO, because we have that at Aintree) - does anyone know when from?

silviniaco conti is starting in that ascot race because of the big pot and then going chasing as far as i know...

budd - good attitude and good luck with your bets.

2 spring to mind are the Ascot race as you suggest RC,and the Newbury race on Hennessey day,which i imagine will be pencilled in for Big Bucks!! Gut feeling is the Ascot race out of them two.Really dont see them taking on Big Bucks till the festival to be honest.

Cheers for your good luck wishes Stron,can never have enough of that in this game.

I hope someone like Oscar Whisky or Thousand Stars can put it up to Big Bucks.  Its similar to the Champion Hurdle, I hope Spirit Son, Oscars Well etc can put it up to Hurricane Fly.

I love BB and HF (they saved me from the poor house this Cheltenham), but I don't want the WH and CH to become one horse races with odds on favs that are predictable.  Will be a lot more interesting if the younger generation can put it up to them and then we can debate on here all night in the build up to the festival.  We all now know that Grands Crus can't live with Big Bucks, but it made the World Hurdle one of the most eagerly anticipated races of the festival.

We need some ammunition to fire at Mayweather for when he awakes from hibernation [;)]

mayweather banned apparently back as Manny Pacio shortly

Thought i would bring this thread back after Big Bucks latest demolotion job.Blimey,he is one serious racehorse.

Have to be honest and say i am a tad confused with the prep that OW is having if hes to run in the WH.
FfOS Las over 2m is his last race before the festival.I really wanted to see him over 3m at sometime before March,and the way they are talking that aint going to happen.
Was hoping the Cleeve at Cheltenham would see him prove he stays 3m,but that race is too close to Ffos Las i think.
So it looks like he will be going to take on Big Bucks without ever going 3m before!!
I guess also to consider is - are they keeping an eye on Hurricane Fly's well being with a view to going for the CH again?? I have saved in case that happens,cos i really rate this horse,he has so much class,and want him on my side in whatever race he runs in.
What i really want is to see him race against Big Bucks though,and win or lose, prove that i am right to have so much faith in him.

Whats the craic in Ireland regarding Mullin's horses for this? Mourad, So Young and Zaidpour to take on Big Bucks mob handed?

And Thousand Stars.
Who knows with Mullins!!

Is VLV now in with a shout of 2nd?? Pissed all over Mourad just there, now settling nicely. Turn of foot very pleasing on the eye.

Be as well leave the mares to Quevega...

Mik d wins again,must come into the reckoning as well.
Back to hurdles definitely agreeing with him.

Henderson announced that OWhiskey runs.
Hes definitely in the reckoning!!