I don't like Willie Mullins

Totally agree; I think he's a massively overrated trainer as well!

Irish horse racing is like the SPL; if you manage Rangers or Celtic you're gonna look good because the opposition is so piss poor!

You people crack me up. We still don't know the ground conditions and final declarations yet you expect the trainers to make a decision. Here's a novel idea - wait till you see the final line up and THEN make an informed decision. Does that give you enough time or would you like a couple of weeks?

He is most certainly not overrated! However he is not a particularly pleasant person. But then again, neither is Nicholls or King. Try not to listen to them, like I do!

Willie Mullins is one of the most respected and well liked men in racing and a gentelman to boot

Just because he doesn't tell you what's what does not make him some sort of monster.

My advice is get used to it because he won't be changing his ways anytime soon

well said rondetto ,

Mullins's loyalty is to the horses owners first, not jumped up 2 bob punters who cant read the form lines for themselves and want to hear it from the trainer

Willie Mullins is a legend.

If you actually listen to his interviews carefully on the day of race .. i.e when he has runners that afternoon, he more often than not puts you onto winners. FACT.

"If you actually listen to his interviews carefully on the day of race"

Day of the race?? Sorry but that's just no good as the OP needs at least a weeks notice so he can lump on at big prices with no AP risk. [smiley:crazy]

Top trainer and I like the fact he leaves everything to the last minute - if you can 2nd guess him you can get some nice value. If you don't like the risks don't back his horses ante-post.

and the thing is, once one of his is confirmed for a race, you know he has thought it over properly and is highly likely to run very well, which is half the battle.

he is not one for tilting at windmills, Cousing Vinny & MDH aside because they were two c0ck-ups

There is a big difference to saying, we'll leave him in both races and decide a couple of days before the race, ground etc. THIS IS FINE.

The problem is half the time he says he is going for a race then the next day says he is going for a different race, THIS IS NOT GOOD.

Either he's not very bright and doesn't realise he is doing it or is a blatant liar.
I don't think it's the former as I respect his training ability, and love lot's of his horses. Sadly it seem's to be the latter.

Best Nh trainer around.
Massive pocket talking thread.

May be best trainer downy, but that's not the issue, and I don't pocket talk

Messrs Henderson, King, Hobbs and many others have hardly covered themselves in glory as far as confirming running plans this year, In most cases this is because they genuinely haven't chosen between the ever-increasing number of options as the festival grows and grows.

Picking out Mullins for criticism is totally unjustified.

There is a difference, Mullins gives what appears a clear indication where a horse will go then announces a different target afterwards ... on a continual basis. That is what is not acceptable to punters.

all the mullins haters have done their conkers backing his horses AP (1.01)

"but didnt mullins say quel esprit heading for 4 miler last week ?"

Jaysus move on will yeah. Nobody with half a brain lost any money due to his comments as some firms were already NRNB.

Sorry you cant excuse that so easily. I have never lost cash on a Mullins nr because I generally dont back his so it isnt pocket talk.

1.01 stuffed, gimp.

Last time he was on ATR, he had negatives about all his runners (bar one huge odds on shot).  That days 4 of his horses were really well backed and hosed up.

eric and rhinestone don't get roped in by some of the plebs on here spouting the expected garbage. I've posted all of my business already so you can see that I have no financial involvement on any of his horses.

I only started this thread because of an interview I listened to earlier today where he was asked a simple question about that he knew the answer to, but refused to answer it straight. It doesn't make any difference to me, but it just highlighted to me that he's not a pleasent man.

Aye no difference to me, just feel for the people it does hit.

And your true personality has really come out over the past few days CV. It's lucky i'm not as sensitive as you as I might have taken offence to your 'English pricks' comment. As for the rest of your post I can't understand. Is it my education at fault for that or yours?

I'm with you there rhinestone. Away from all the joking about here, I genuinely feel most people miss the bigger picture. Without the punters this game doesn't exist no more.

"Last time he was on ATR, he had negatives about all his runners (bar one huge odds on shot).  That days 4 of his horses were really well backed and hosed up"

Jaysus just because he has a negative about HIS horse doesn't mean they aren't going to win. Did you study the form of the other horses in the race or do you just bet based on the comments of ONE horses trainer. [smiley:crazy]

"Quel Esprit 4 miler"

Why do i get the feeling this WON'T be the last time we hear those words mentioned. It's forever embedded in the anti WM brigades minds. Toossers.

I used to think CV was alright if Mullins was English i'd still say the same comments, silly little boy.

Not doubting he has loads of winners, I for one certainly wouldn't mind Hurricane Fly and Sivota winning. Can actually see him going close to top trainer.

This English/Irish thing has no place in horse racing, I cringe when I see the tricolor wheeled out at Cheltenham. We in Ireland have produced the greatest racehorses, jockeys, and trainers in the world and there is no need to stoop to this base, cheap, jingoistic level. We all just want to see great horses, doesn't matter where they come from.

Hear Hear Neill, everyones getting a bit silly, its nothing personal being critical about a Trainer, Horse or Jockey


Put it down to pre Cheltenham grumps and nerves

Totaly agree Neill.

Spot on neill.

Hmm...some very interesting points here!

I'll stand by my original post that Mullins is overrated...if you want an example, i'll give you Mikael D'Haguenet, the way he's campaigned that horse is nothing short of pathetic, and yes he's admitted so himself, but in my eyes if he's held in the regard of a 'genius' or a 'legend' as ive heard said and seen written, you don't make mistakes like that with such a high profile horse! Cooldine, another, where's he now!? He's miles off the Grade One radar, and before anyone jumps up and down saying that horses are animals at the end of the day and a magnitude of things can go wrong with them and cause them to lose their form, yes this is true, but to lose the potential of two such high class performers cannot be bad luck, he's done something not quite right! He's not a genius, he's not a legend, he a good solid trainer and it pays me to view him that way; very rarely back his runners, as many of them are under priced and over hyped!

As for what he says, he's entitled to say what he wants, as punters we can't expect to be spoon fed information by trainers, they've no obligation to give us any clues what so ever, and even if they do say something, they're entitled to change their mind, I have no problem with this at all!

I don't think this is an English/Irish argument at all, and it's of no surprise to me the names that have suggested it is! The phrase "Irish Talking Horse" is all too common in racing, and all too true! Yes, we all want brilliant horses and no, I don't think anyone cares where they come from, but I do believe across the Irish Sea you have a tendency to hype your animals to something they're not, and if you think you've got a good one, you won't listen to argument because you feel a sense of national pride about it!

In short, I don't think we "English pricks" are the problem here CVByrne!

Willie Mullins doesn't have any interest in punting. He really is a great trainer and i don't use the word "great" lightly.he has an unusual way of operating...very disorganised,changes his mind like a woman,and even for a micky mouse industry race day he can change his running plans twice at the last minute.thats not a criticism, its just the way he is,and his way works for him.
So dont expect him to suddenly start making his mind up about running plans a week in advance just because there's an antepost market available. he's not going to change so get over it.

Cooldine is off having a breathing op.

His record with horses fto for him(ie. come to him from another trainer) is unbelievable.
To get 543 to win a Neptune of the back of one start, bring him back not once but twice from injury.
Getting Quevega to Cheltenham in one piece last yr and win.
No one in Ireland can hold a torch to him at the minute.
He has admitted he made mistakes running both Zaidpour & MDH back too soon after Fairyhouse.
His record even in just the last two seasons alone speaks for itself.

He has so many horses with different owners and many are in the same sphere, and this imo is why he is coy with saying so-and-so goes for this or that. I just feel he is being honest. Too much is made of this imv.

He doesn't hype his own horses, others do. Compare him to Paul Nicholls as regards hype, only one winner there.

Was surprised he committed Quel Esprit to the any race after the gallops, was unlike him.

The Irish/English thing goes both ways, many English people seem to regard Irish racing as second class - look at the quality of horse/jockey/trainer not to mention prize money. Facilities are the big difference in England, they are far superior even at small racecourses.

Fwiw I couldn't give two fks who trains them as long as I've backed them!

Cheltenham

Gold Cups wins.           0
Queen Mother wins.     0
Champion Hurdle wins 0
Stayers Hurdle wins.    0

What happens to the masses of talented novices he gets why is he so sh1t at bringing them through to compete and beat the best?

Maybe this will change next week it has been a long time coming.

eric you have stunned them into silence...on both threads

From how many runners has he had in those races to date?
You can only run a horse in the CH if its a CH horse and so on, ffs.

His record at Cheltenham in the novice races speaks for itself and it is only a matter of time before those novices pick up the big ones.

Either way Cheltenham is not the be all and end all of racing.

Eric couldn't stun a fly with a shovel.

He has only come to the fore in Ireland in the past 3/4 years, before that Noel Meade was the leading trainer and had been for 7/8yrs.
Its fairly clear that the yard are getting better and better.

I have never understood the need for people to get personal with trainers and jockeys.

Agreeing with yourself on your new account kirk ydfc?

this is getting petty, mostly because of the presence of eric, but at least willie mullins has won a grand national. Paul Nicholls has tried from about 50 runners.

But for the record, I think Nicholls is currently so far ahead of everyone else in everything he does, that when he retires in 10 or 15 years, he could be the greateest. The way he gets horses back from serious injury to win top races is phenomenal

Sh1t reply, so I am right then he has only been any good with novices and hasnt had the skill to nuture them into senior champions.

Maybe that will change this year a long time coming.

Imagine what Hen Knight could have done with the novice talent he has had. Way less horses and way way more success at the highest level.

and eric, we all know you backed Flat Out in the Irsih Arkle so dont tell us you have not lost on a Mullins horse. You've also done your nuts on MDH.

How many novices make it to the top?
Its the same in any sport, how many quality underage footballers/golfers/rugby players make it to the top as pro's?

I don't know why I bother debating with the likes of you eric, as you are either on a fishing epxo, or you are a total moron. Given your priors I'll go with moron.

(Evening Sint btw ;) )

evening das, is RP website loading for you ? Cant get on here ..

yeah its grand here. though its been g@y since they messed with it again.

ok ta

Not sure why eric is being given the abuse. He has made very valid points.

well in fairness you opened your account today and probably dont know how the bell end operates.ta

Think their is some valid points on here as regards the Irish hype.Have lost count of the number of Irish monsters i have read about on here,and read about before Betfair came along,but luckily i never let it influence me.Some of the pundits dont help in particular Duggan,the bias is at times embarrassing.
Mind you i have read similar stuff about English horses at times,in particular Nicholls horses.
Another thing that dont help is the number of Grade 1,s they have in Ireland,think for example dunguib had won 3 or 4 before the supreme!!In england we only have one Grade1 Novice hurdle before Chelt,and thats the Tolworth!!.This gives the Irish the-look at how many Grade 1,s he has won argument,as with HFly,solwhit and Dunguib.It seems they have one every week over the winter.
Anyway,all i look at is races and how horses perform,be they English,Irish or any other nationality!!

Martin Pipes Cheltenham record

Gold Cups wins 0
Queen Mother wins 0
Champion Hurdle wins 0
Stayers Hurdle wins 0

I guess he must be overated also

actually ignore that, complete rubbish

Point I was trying to make, was Pipe never won the big chases, GC, QM, KG and with all the talent he had, using the same argument, he was overated also, which obviously is complete nonsese.

He has one parallel with Pipe other than lack of success in the big races: dozens of his horses get injured every year.

Firstivevisor said "Willie Mullins doesn't have any interest in punting. He really is a great trainer and i don't use the word "great" lightly.he has an unusual way of operating...very disorganised,changes his mind like a woman,and even for a micky mouse industry race day he can change his running plans twice at the last minute.thats not a criticism, its just the way he is,and his way works for him.
So dont expect him to suddenly start making his mind up about running plans a week in advance just because there's an antepost market available. he's not going to change so get over it"

Good post!!!!

still missing the point [smiley:crazy]

People don't like Willie Mullins as he doesn't declare everything to the public. He looks after his owners, and that's exactly how it should be. They pay the bills and keep him in business.

His record in improving horses from other yards is second to none. His record in bringing horses back from lay offs is brilliant. His training methods get his horses fitter at home than anyone else seems to be able to manage.

Look at the talent he's got going to Cheltenham next week.

Hurricane Fly, Zaidpour, So Young, Quevega, Quel Esprit, Mikael D Haguenet, Sivota, Kempes....

Plenty, plenty more sat at home as well.

He's head and shoulders above anyone else training at the minute, but because he lets the owners know how their horses are getting on, rather than telling the general public everything, he's some sort of con artist. Pathetic.

If I owned a horse and could afford it, I'd be sending it straight to Mullins.

^ missing the point again, jesus.

I think after todays comments regarding So Young its easy to see why the thread was started

what's he said sj? Not got my paper yet.

So Young could go for the Supreme

Money seems to think so

The firms wouldn't need much excuse to slash his odds for the Supreme as 99% are NRNB.

Just have to sit tight and wait now.

thats it Willie

So Young - Supreme

Zaidpour - Neptune


come on willie, ye know it makes sense

The man is a joke much like the Quel Esprit situation he says 2 days ago Zaidpour supreme So Young Neptune Gagewell Flyer Albert Bartlett. Now 48 hours later we could have a change of plan, sorry but the man is a t it, and this isnt pocket talking cos I only do NRNB cos of morons like this man

Willie, don,t forget  run golden silver in the ryanair.

Wouldnt surprise me. Great trainer, but why he has to put people away is anyone's guess

To be fair,so young is probably a better 2m horse than zaidpour. It,s only really now the ground is definite,Hard to know But I still think they will go in their original targets,but i get the feeling Willie would clean me out playing poker.

Rumour has it hes skipping the Champion Hurdle with Hurricane Fly to send him to Royal Ascot The man does like to leave it to the last minute thats for sure..

Re So Young:-

"leaving our options open"

"might still decide to switch"

Since SY was left in at the 5-day stage this hardly counts as earth-shattering news.

SO YOUNG is challenging Oscars Well at the head of the market for the Neptune Investment Management Novices' Hurdle after being confirmed as Willie Mullins' selected representative in Wednesday's 2m5f contest.


The five-year-old, who has won both starts over hurdles, was made 100-30 favourite (from 9-2) by William Hill on Thursday and in several other lists he was cut to 7-2 joint-favourite with Oscars Well.


Mullins, who also left Gagewell Flyer and Zaidpour in the Neptune, said: "So Young is likely to be our only runner in the Neptune as Zaidpour runs in the Supreme Novices’ on Tuesday and Gagewell Flyer will wait for the Albert Bartlett on Friday."

Zaidpour is 8-1 (from 10) with Hills for the Stan James-sponsored Supreme.

The Irish champion trainer's plans for his novice chasers also became clearer when Quel Esprit was withdrawn from the National Hunt Chase in favour of a bid for the RSA Chase alongside stablemate Mikael D'Haguenet.

Quel Esprit is a 16-1 chance, with Mikael D'Haguenet a best-priced 14-1. Time For Rupert continues to head the market at a general 9-4, although Ladbrokes trimmed him from that price to 2-1.

Ladbrokes also clipped Big Zeb to 11-4 (from 3-1), making him clear favourite over Master Minded in the Sportingbet.com Queen Mother Champion Chase.

Among the outsiders, the Evan Williams-trained William's Wishes was cut to 16-1 (from 33) by Ladbrokes for the Irish Independent Arkle Chase on Tuesday.

Racing Post should start getting new journo's then dark

sj - that must be from before his latest 'comments'

Sorry Rhinestone you're right that story was printed Thursday at 5:26PM so much has changed since then

SY still going for the Neptune.

so much has changed since then

or so little

sj, what has Mullins said today ?

Accoridng to Matt on ATR he spoke to Willie at 11.00pm and says he is still oncourse for the Neptune.

"and eric, we all know you backed Flat Out in the Irsih Arkle so dont tell us you have not lost on a Mullins horse. You've also done your nuts on MDH."

Are you serious?? This toosser was preaching to me yesterday how it doesn't affect him cause he never backs Mullins horses.

I will be winning this meeting and it wont be because I depend on this useless over-rated wind up merchant trainer. I admit I forgot I took Flat Out the arkle in my book however it is no loss to me the way I bet. Others his behaviour destroys their Festival lets hope he gets a big kick out of that ... he seems to come up with a new plan every day and showing you and others defending him to be buffoons.

Quel Esprit the Jewson anyone, looks likely now imo.

It baffles me why so many fellow Irish forumites feel the need to defend and justify people who couldn`t give a toss about them as punters.