Cheltenham Festival
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Will Starluck be placed in the Arkle?
Will Starluck be placed in the Arkle?
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this seems like an afterthought to me. I'm not a great judge of horses but isn't he quite small for a typical chaser, always thought that he looked a hurdler through and through.
The other thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned is that he was very disappointing in the xmas hurdle when conditions were really in his favour. Didn't travel as well as he normally does so you couldn't say he was in form (and today will probably prove nothing on that front) |
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Agree connections know Kempton is his favourite track yet he was poor there, outpaced over 2 out ridden and kept on same pace. This smacks of desperation as they know he doesnt get up the hill over hurdles and if he gets hammered by Binocular and Overturn at Kempton he has no chance against the favs at Cheltenham, so hey lets switch to fences late instead. This is the same horse and more stamina is required over fences up the hill than hurdles.
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The Xmas hurdle wasn't run to suit Starluck if you look. He had no chance to beat Binocular and with AP forcing the pace all the way it would have been stupid for TM to beat him up for nothing. The same applied to Khyber Kim. Neither is good enough to beat Bino so they did the right thing.
Smacks of desperation? Wierd. You have a good horse who is not good enough to win the CH, what do you do? They ran him twice over hurdles but it was obvious this was going to be a top notch CH so why waste time tilting at windmills? This is a wise move to ry to run him in a race where there is no strength in depth and he is now likely to be running in a race he could win as opposed to one he couldn't. |
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We havent seen him jump a fence in public yet with less than 3 weeks to the arkle.
Doesn't get ANY true run 2 mile race around cheltenham. Strong travelling horses don't automatically have that same ability over fences. The abilty to stay further required to win an arkle, which he hasn't got. A bridle ponce. In summary NO! |
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I agree the Arkle looks quite weak (there is nothing in there which you could call a potential champion chase horse next season imo) but the fact they are even considering sending him to the Arkle after one mickey mouse race over fences is wrong imo. The Arkle is a serious test of jumping stiff fences at speed and I have always thought that you want plenty of experience of that going into - the horses welfare should be of paramount importance to the connections and I can only assume he jumps fences at home like a dream for them to be even considering this.
The "Well Chief did it" argument seems to be trotted out every year for horses making late debuts over fences but he was just an exceptional horse. Interestingly, the hurdle rating is a stat that I follow religiously in the Arkle and so not backing Starluck is going against my golden rule. However, I think the stat has to be taken into context of the other chase evidence on offer and hurdle rating alone should not define a horses chances. If he wins well today, he'll be single figures and by the day he may be 6/7 - 1. If I was a layer, on the day I'd be getting stuck in. |
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^^Someone else who 'knows'. Don't know how some people have the time to come on here with everything they 'know' they should be making a fortune.
Do you 'know'? Or are you just saying you 'know'? I wonder. Starluck has only ever been ridden by Timmy Murphy whose style is to sit on the bridle and cruise through to win, or not. How do you know that suits this horse? With AP aboard we may see him ridden differently. But then why on earth am I discussing this when everyone 'knows'. |
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Foe those getting themselves confused as to which requires more stamina, a 2 mile chase or 2 mile hurdle; it is clearly a 2 mile hurdle. For the very simple reason that they leave the ground less times to jump obstacles which results in a faster overall pace. Extending the point further, you need more stamina in a two mile flat race than a two mile hurdle, for the very same reason.
The reason for mentioning this.......if Starluck is beaten it will unlikely be through lack of stamina. |
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Trainer just said he may not run in the Arkle. Hold bets until after the weekend.
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Be a shame if he dosen't go as he adds spice to an intriguing, if not top class, renewal.
For all the talk about him not getting up the hill I actually think he likes the track - has won there impressively and although beaten he actually ran very well in both the Triumph and Champion Hurdle. |
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Starluck will not win tha Arkle. He does not get 2m over hurdles leaving the ground 8 times, why will he get it using more energy over bigger fences on 12 occasions. No brainer he can not win FULL STOP
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^^^^ another 'know-all' after-timer. Where on earth do they keep coming from ffs.
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Are you on about me brigust1?
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He jumped around with one mistake and skewed one what more can you say.
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Yes Jetcrowts, I am.
Of course if you can direct me to where you have declared this invaluable information before the race then I will reconsider my comment. |
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Brigust1, I wouldn't stress too much about what some of these are saying. They demonstrate their ignorance of the game thinking a chase is more stamina sapping than a hurdle race.
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Yeah, thank Brownes. Shouldn't lose my rag though, just going through a 'moment'.
And his trainer did say this so everything may not be lost. "The Arkle horses might not be as good as the Champion ones at the moment, so he might just have a better opportunity there. I'd hold fire (on bets) until Sunday or Monday. "Andrew Waites (owner) is back in the country tomorrow, so we'll have a big chat and do what's best for the horse, make a decision from there." |
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What a load of shoyte , they are going Arkle.
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Brigust1...Apart from anything the Arkle is actually 100 yards shorter than the Champion. Sizing Europe os a typical example of a horse who didn't look like he quite got home over 2m at the very highest level over hurdles. Over fences, they were thinking of the KG and GC! The reason being the inevitably slower pace they go over fences compared to hurdles. The time for most CH being on a par with the Arkle despite the larger distance of a 100 yards.
Starluck will not have trouble getting home in 2m Chase races (unless they are run at Towester!). |
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I agree Brownes. I have been through this race with a fine tooth comb ever since the decs came out. And I have been backing him right through even up until and including today.
First thoughts were 'why would AP say that' and, sad to say, I must admit I did think with the CH the next race. But that's just how you feel when the old nuts get bashed. |
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Brigust,
The race (Arkle) has not been run yet why would I want to be making a comment over an egg and spoon race. You're problem is sunshine is you are talking through your pocket. Take off the rose coloured spectacles and save yourself from throwing more cash away on Starluck. As for him getting home in an Arkle you can dress it up as much as you like, he won't get up the hill and you need further than 2m to win an Arkle. Listen to AP he knows best. |
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Where in AP's comments did he mention Starluck's ability to stay the trip Jet?
McCoy said afterwards: "I'm pleased enough with that. He's very brave and even though there's no doubt he lacks a bit of size, he's not frightened and has loads of bottle. "At times you can just feel the little horse finds it a bit tough, but for a small horse, he has plenty of courage. "I said to Alan that I'm not sure it would be fair on him to go straight to the Arkle and we've got to do what's right for the horse." |
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In other words he is saying he can't win the race otherwise he would be saying go for it.
I am trying to save you from wasting more hard earned, guess there are some people you can't help. |
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Jet if you look at the main Arkle thread you will see I have been backing this horse since the beginning of the month, where were you then? And do I sound like I need help? I do hope not.
Most people on the forum just discuss their views, make their choices and sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. I don't think anyone I discuss views with needs help. Thanks anyway. |
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fact - trainer states best form figures on flat tracks
fact - he no well chief fact - AP not convinced by win fact - stamina wins Arkle,s As previously posted wait for Aintree where every box ticked and major player,i feel your really chancing your arm betting him for Arkle sorry chaps. |
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Suddenly we are all listening to the trainer. Why in f u c k s name did he enter the horse in the first place if he knows so much?
And how many times has a trainer told his jockey to ride one horse then it gets beaten by the stable companion? Suddenly trainers are all knowing, all seeing. So why did he enter it in the first f u c k i n g place? |
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Brigust1,
Your comment about 3 posts up confirms exactly what I said on my previous post. You confirmed you are talking through your pocket old lad. Not only will the horse win on all known form, nearly all the stats are against him winning it. I am not wishing to offer help, in fact, you keep backing him, will drive the prices out of the real contenders.  |
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not only win the horse not win above post should read
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Of course I'm talking through my pocket, what is wrong with that?
Just let me remind you of the following: The trainer entered the horse for the Arkle on 26th January, 4 weeks ago, he was less experienced then and exactly the same size as he is now. He has also been saying he wants the same jockey who rides him in his first chase to ride him in the Arkle because his usual rider Timmy Murphy is claimed for Ghizao. Cheltenham is the same track today as it was 4 weeks ago. So pray tell me what I didn't understand there? Or are you going to say the trainer was stupid entering him in the first place? |
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It was a decent run but if sticks to the bigger obstactles he will be down the handicap route in time. I cant put my finger on it but just didnt look like had enough about him to me
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And I suppose the 2 good horses he absolutely mullered today on ground more suitable to them than him will be running in sellers.
I thought I had heard everything. |
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Its all about opinions and just not convinced he is a chaser
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This horse would have absolutely no bother getting home in an Arkle were he to jump well.he got home ok in the CH last year,so why the heck should he not in an Arkle which is ran at a slower pace being a chase.
THe end of the day its all about whether connections are happy to run him with his limited experience,and nowt to do with Cheltenham. |
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Brigust he beat two middle of the road horses today and was getting weight from both of them aswell, if he hadn't mullered them you may have ripped up your antepost vouchers.Personally i wouldnt back him with stolen money but each to there own and all that jazz
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why not??
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Brigust, he did not beat 2 good horses today FACT. Like I said earlier take the rose tinted spectacles off. If you think he beat two good horses today you should give the game up.
Wouldn't back him with counterfeit but each to there own. |
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why not?
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More to the point....why would you?
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no,the point is you are saying you would not back him with stolen,i am interested why that is.
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He's a bridle ponce budd, no if's but's or maybe's about it! you watch his run last year @ haydock and watch his run in last years champion hurdle aswell, just watch him and celestial halo from the 3rd last and forget about the 3 horses in front of them
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The way I see it this years race is far from a vintage renewal.for those that have behave bet Starluck at 50s down good luck.you don't need a lot on at those odds to get the old pulse going!
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