agree about Supreme - I wonder what's going on with GMOOH?

I must admit, Rease, until Oscar Whisky ran today that was always worrying me but not any more. GMOOH either ran above himself or is difficult to get conditions and fitnes right.

I don't know Rease, Menorah never reproduced his form at Aintree and there are some tough races ahead with contenders looking to run. Binocular and Peddlers Cross for example.
For me I hope Menorah runs again and one or two knock the edges off each other before Cheltenham. Philip Enright is looking at an easy this month and providing everything goes well goes straight there.
I also don't think his, Dunguib's, jumping is an issue. I've watched the Supreme loads of times and he only made very slight errors twice when he was just going too strongly. When the taps were on he jumped fine. I think these good hurdlers need a strong pace and that is what they will get in the Champion.
And a happy new year to you.

I hope this does not come back to bite me but Dunguib's jumping is only picked up because he is often hot favourite and watched closely. Menorah has made plenty of mistakes in his races and Binocular's jumping hasn't/isn't always perfect. Hurricane Fly looks a neat jumper but he hasn't raced at championship pace on good ground yet.

Bud, I suggest you use your own eyes and not listen to what others say.
I've watched all his races, several times, and I am yet to find a jump where he is slow and deliberate and loses ground. He fiddles a few times but that is nly because they are going too slow for him. As I said he was such high profile he has been scrupulously watched for even the slightest error. Loads of horses made mistakes in the Supreme but only Dunguib's were mentioned and they were minor in the extreme and because he was going too well.
At the first he fiddled and never lost an inch, he was asked at the 2nd and flew it so much the jockey had to take him back to avoid the risk of running away. Never at any hurdle did he lose ground, he was just given a less than brilliant ride whereas Johnson, AP and Geraghty rode a blinder.
Of course if he doesn't jump well he is unlikely to win but I am hoping/expecting the increased pace and better ground will allow him to work within his ability and not be strangled out the back.
In fact I am more worried about the jockey than his jumping, I can assure you of that.

Bud, the RP analysis the day after the Supreme.
'Much of the race revolved around last years imperious Champion Bumper winner Dunguib, who had gone from strength to stength since embarking on his hurdling career, culminating in a bloodless win in the Deloitte at Leopardstown last month. That success caused plenty of debate about how his jumping would stand up here, as he was sluggish at his hurdles, and there was also the other matter of his usual pilot Barry O'Connell, who had yet to even ride a race over jumps outside Ireland.
Well backed, he was restrained early on, as he had been on his previous outing. It seemed clear that the tactics were to keep him wide, surely in order to give him a clear sight of his obstacles, but his jumping was sufficient and clearly too much has been made of it after his previous win. It was O'Connell's decision to keep him right on the outside of runners, just as the first pair were going for home turning in, that ultimately found him out, and he lacked the turn of foot on this quicker surface to make up the deficit the manouvre cost him.
It may well be that time will tell he has run close to his previous level in defeat, but surely had he saved more ground early on he would have got closer to them when it really mattered.'

Sums it up for me.

I am hoping the form is true and Menora and Oscar Whisky have not let it down. I am hoping the experience has brought him on and he turns up fit and well. The rest is out of my hands. The form through Fionnegras, Reve de Sivola, Peddler's Cross and Binocular is there for all too see and I think 20's is way too big.

Bud you obviously read what you want to read not what the facts are, so I am obviously wasting my time.

Of Oscar Whisky it said,
'Oscar Whisky was another oming here unbeaten, in his case two bumper and hurdle outings. He had yet to come off the bridle before this, but having raced handily from the off he got a little outpaced when the race hotted up and could have jumped better. He was running on stoutly after clouting the last and probably could have done with easier ground over this test. He remains a horse of real potential and looks well worth ashotat 2m 4f.'

Note he jumped poorer than Dunguib but no mention from those fancying him for the CH.

Of Menorah it said,

'A brave tactical ride from Richard Johnson saw Menorah just hold of GMOOH where it mattered and the shortened run-in no doubt played it's part in the result. He was perfectly placed on the inside to strike as the tempo increased, but wasn't too clever at three out, and wandered about coming to the penultimate flight, hampering the runner up in the process. Menorah again wandered around coming to the last, but jumped it cleanly and really stuck his head down under strong pressure on the shortened run-in.
Next season connections have the option of going chasing and he has the scope for that discipline, but with the Champion Hurdle division looking quite open he could well test his metle in that arena. This experience could be the making of him and he is as short as 10/1 for that contest'. 

Note his jumping, never mentioned. And the shortened run-in helped the winner and not Dunguib, held up. Also the 'coming on for the experience' a point I am hoping also refers to Dunguib.

The strange thing with Dunguib is why he hasnt been out over in England in at least one trial to groove his jumping on faster ground somewhere. Is that not the obvious thing to have done with him if you have the Champion Hurdle in mind?

Lol,think we are all getting a bit twitchy Brigust,its all part of the Cheltenham build up,and we love it.....dont we??
I think they know he aint got a problem with the course,he has a win and a 3rd there after all.

Good 'heads up' on this one, thanks, Budd. Looked a nice horse again yesterday.

OW has some good form on rain softened ground now and that type of going might play to his strengths in the CH, if they take that route. He seemed to get a bit outpaced on better ground in the SN, though of course that may have been to do with inexperience more than anything and it certainly isn't conclusive evidence that the horse lacks the speed over two miles to compete against the best in that division.

All the same, softer ground would place less pressure on his hurdling. He hurdles well enough, but understandably there are still a few signs of inexperience there. And a bit of cut would bring his stamina more into play and stop those at the front too readily getting away from him. If the ground is anything like it was when Katchit won the CH, that would make OW a very interesting contender. Quite what he can do on better ground, we need a bit more evidence than just his run in the SN, where in fairness he coped well enough at that level on drying ground.

OW won well enough yesterday not to be crabbing the form. No doubt in my mind though that Karabak is much better on a sounder surface and to some extent the same is true with Celestial Halo, who raced with the choke out a bit too much once again to last home strongly.

Not sure where they go with Celestial Halo now. They got him revved up enough to compete effectively in the two mile hurdling division, and now they have the problem of getting him switched off enough to see out the trip well over further. Best race last season was on better ground in the Aintree Hurdle - could be his race again this season, if he has a decent break now.

well its d-day for OW tomorrow apparently.

Good run and on to the CH ,but if he dont show enough for 2m then maybe WH or even Aintree!!

Buddeliea - I spent a good deal of time yesterday looking at all the Champion Hurdle hopefuls and have ended up backing this one to add to my portfolio. I must admit to having been a little unprofessional in not having watched him and only him in the Supreme until yesterday - he got by far the worst passage and in my opinion did extremely well to finish so close to the front three.

Through no fault of his own he was unsighted at key hurdles and on the turn for home, had to be snatched up briefly and did not see daylight until the first three were away and gone. Given that it was also his first real "race", he must have learned so much from it. He looks as though he has bags of toe and now we know he clearly stays well too, I think he is a corking bet at 16s. Obviously this could look stupid tomorrow but I am quietly confident he will arrive at Cheltenham as a genuine contender.

Marv,
trainer said that tomorrow will tell them whether to stay at 2m or step up.As i have a nice antepost wager for the CH,its rather important to me.Although i am pretty confident that they know what they got!!

Totally agree Tom,i have watched that supreme a fair few times and am sure with a better run he would have been a lot closer,plus he made a bit of a hash of the 3rd last.
Quiet excited about this one to be honest.

Tomdeane,well read sir.I backed Oscar in doubles and trebles with Bino and Sizing and his defeat saved Ladbrokes 40 grand, but convinced me i had one to follow.I have kept my powder dry on this thread in the hope that somebody would lay me a good one
tomorrow,sadly no PC or anything else really.
I said to myself that i would back him to beat all the horses that finished ahead in the Supreme when they next met.Aintree was the obvious one but alas he did'nt run again last season.So keeping an eye on the CH betting (Dont know where 100 at 200s came from)i backed him from 100s down to about 23 and feel very exited.I also steamed in at 10s for the Ladbroke which i am convinced he would have won pulling a cart,and slaughtering Mille chief in the process.Anybody who seriously thinks he wont go for the CH and run in the WH, should check out his first race in a 1.5 Bumper at Newbury and time him and Menorah(wont place)from the last in there last Cheltenham races.
I am going to stick my neck out here and say,i dont think he is going to win a CH, i think he could win 3.Incedentally my love affair with this race started with a ill -fated gamble on Birds Nest in 1976.

Decent effort against snails today but still can't see him reversing Cheltenham placings with Menorah

Looks a lovely type with plenty enthusiasm and potential - could be anything but his tendency to clout the odd one is a worry.

Just hope he jumps better in the Champion, he will be right there.

Surely this horse will only have a chance of winning the CH if its soft ground. Can't see this son of Oscar having the pace to win a good ground CH which is inevitably the sort of ground we get - 16/1 for this reason