Oscar Whiskey

Ladbroke
Welsh Champion Hurdle
Champion

Pretty much spot on. Bolts up Saturday off just 146, and as you say is the Champion outsider with massive potential, I've got rather a bit too much on him at anything from 100-200 for the champion.

bud, you say not far behind Menorah. This was Oscar's first real race as well, had won his first four without being challenged, will have learned a hell of a lot in the Supreme, and as you say got barged about a bit and was unsighted at a couple, ran a blinder.

Would be interesting if it came up soft on day 1, probably lacks the pace otherwise.

Good to know i aint the only one that thinks hes a lively ousider.

A very nice prospect for sure but I'd still have gone chasing this season if he were mine.

I guess if he is a live Champion Hurdle contender he should bolt up on Saturday off 146 - yet he's about 9/1 and not even the stable No.1 according o the bookies - so either Christmas has come early or he ain't as good as we all think.

Fair points.
I am just going on his Supreme run,aint got anything else.Have no idea what the stable think,but he is 80 odd on here!!His supreme performance compared with Menorah to me makes him interesting.
Be watching with interest Saturday for sure.

Bookies get it wrong a lot uncle, especially when they went 20's, 16's

I'm just playing Devils Advocate[;)]

I really fancied him as an Arkle prospect at the end of last season (and still will next season) but on his Supreme run I just can't be having him as Champion Hurdle prospect. Happy to be proved wrong though and may well back him if Ascot goes ahead on Saturday (where it will be interesting to see the jockey bookings)

nicky hendersons horse to follow in mark howards book

Hope and think Bazzza will pick him

^ if he does we could have 'flip flopping favourites'

Bazza on Oscar Whisky in the Ladbroke by the looks of it...

Shame it almost certain;y won't be going ahead

I need it to be on

Please.

interesting horse got done for speed in the supreme, but stayed on at the end. I wouldn't put people off having a punt at big odds tbh very nice trading prospect imo.

Remember henderson being interviewed about the ladbroke he said when being asked about aegean dawn, dont forget about oscar whiskey. Said it all to me oscar whiskey will go off fav been backed today.

Entered for the Christmas hurdle. Will he take on his stablemate Bino though?

why not,will give them a huge clue as to where to aim him at,and us!!

must have been just about the best looking horse in the paddock at last years festival. im certainly no coinnesseur in the matter but you could certainly pick himout from the rest

Just finished my big champion hurdle write up and will post the thread this evening once I give it one last proof read.

But guess who I left out? This lad, Will have to add a couple of lines about him.

How far would he have won the Ladbroke by

Welsh champion hurdle next

That's what I've been waiting for!

Gutted about the Ladbroke mind

Though 200 squid at 100/1 ish for the champion is sweet

Well done rhinestone [;)]

BJG says he is a definate CH contender.

Well pleased with that,no bet today,just watching,and boy did i enjoy watching that.Hope a few on here have got him at the big odds that were on offer!!
Fair way to go of course,and cannot get carried away,but its nice to know i was right to call him interesting for the CH.
Get enough wrong!!

When's the Welsh CH? would have thought Oscar would go Kingwell?

Owned by the owner of Ffos Las I believe, FFT. Not sure of date.

mid week in feb i think

I see. Didn't know that ;)

Henderson stated Welsh Champion hurdle is next after the race

So less of that ramping FFT ta

aintree hurdle if he were mine let the others run against each other in the champion and even though he has got pace he might get outpaced in the champion like he did i the supreme last season very good horse mind

arkle winner 2012 ?

He will be in the CH,jockey definitely thinks that by his remarks after the race,owners would be mad not to go for it,big chance imo,has speed and stays,and improving.Ist run since March,will come on a lot.

They will have to think about the Champion Hurdle although whether he can turn the tables on Menorah is open to doubt.
I agree with Alvarado that the Aintree Hurdle might be ideal.
I disagree about the 2012 Arkle though. He doesn't really look a chaser to me.

Yes,Alvarado has a fair point re Aintree,but if connections think he has a chance in the CH,then surely they have to give it a shot,and Gerraghty seems pretty keen on the idea.
Has time on his side,and can always step up next season if he proves to be not up to CH standard.To be fair he would have been closer to Menorah with a clearer run,and we have no idea how much he will improve.
Supreme is looking rather tasty,be interesting to see how Dunguib runs when he eventually gets to a racecourse.

I've made my thoughts pretty clear about Dunguib on the CH thread. They went to the races too may times last year on heavy ground, the Feb run was a mistake, compared with his run up to Cheltenham the year before. This year they only plan 1 run, mid January, then the CH. Blinding chance imo.

agree about Supreme - I wonder what's going on with GMOOH?

Well the form is standing up well,thats for sure,but will his jumping??

Thats the big ? for me,as everyone knows!!

For sure IF they can get him jumping more naturally he is a big player,but can they,not for me,but he will be yet another intriguing part of what is shaping up to be a real thriller.

I must admit, Rease, until Oscar Whisky ran today that was always worrying me but not any more. GMOOH either ran above himself or is difficult to get conditions and fitnes right.

yep, I'll pay a lot more attention to Dunguib's return now brigust.

Hope we get another look at Menorah before the festival too.

I don't know Rease, Menorah never reproduced his form at Aintree and there are some tough races ahead with contenders looking to run. Binocular and Peddlers Cross for example.
For me I hope Menorah runs again and one or two knock the edges off each other before Cheltenham. Philip Enright is looking at an easy this month and providing everything goes well goes straight there.
I also don't think his, Dunguib's, jumping is an issue. I've watched the Supreme loads of times and he only made very slight errors twice when he was just going too strongly. When the taps were on he jumped fine. I think these good hurdlers need a strong pace and that is what they will get in the Champion.
And a happy new year to you.

i agree i think dunguib is a huge player but to win a champion hurdle u have got to be a excellent jumper no ones ever won the champio being an iffy jumper u gotta be slick/quick

what about another player SOLDATINO still unbeaten truimph winner

its a cracking race and any of the first 8 in betting could win it im with menorah always have been on at 28s hes got the lot

I hope this does not come back to bite me but Dunguib's jumping is only picked up because he is often hot favourite and watched closely. Menorah has made plenty of mistakes in his races and Binocular's jumping hasn't/isn't always perfect. Hurricane Fly looks a neat jumper but he hasn't raced at championship pace on good ground yet.

Dunguibs jumping is picked up cos he loses ground with slow and deliberate jumps,the trainer highlighted this last year,and we all knew,or should have,that he would run wide in the Supreme because of that.Its not about not making mistakes like hitting the hurdles so much,its the ground he loses cos he aint a natural fluent jumper which he will neeed to be to beat such a high class field that looks like turning up.Binocular and HFly for example would gain lengths during the race if he has not improved his jumping.Now i guess its possible he may have,although i dont see how he can suddenly become one,but if a horse aint a natural fluent jumper,he aint going to win a high class CH.

Bud, I suggest you use your own eyes and not listen to what others say.
I've watched all his races, several times, and I am yet to find a jump where he is slow and deliberate and loses ground. He fiddles a few times but that is nly because they are going too slow for him. As I said he was such high profile he has been scrupulously watched for even the slightest error. Loads of horses made mistakes in the Supreme but only Dunguib's were mentioned and they were minor in the extreme and because he was going too well.
At the first he fiddled and never lost an inch, he was asked at the 2nd and flew it so much the jockey had to take him back to avoid the risk of running away. Never at any hurdle did he lose ground, he was just given a less than brilliant ride whereas Johnson, AP and Geraghty rode a blinder.
Of course if he doesn't jump well he is unlikely to win but I am hoping/expecting the increased pace and better ground will allow him to work within his ability and not be strangled out the back.
In fact I am more worried about the jockey than his jumping, I can assure you of that.

I only listened to the trainer Brigust,and it seems that he agreed with me,but watching his races was my main basis for judging him.It seems we have different ideas on what a CHurdler needs to jump like.If he jumps as he did last season he will not imo win a CH.
In Supreme Jockey was told where to put him in the race,and that was cos Fenton knew he had not been jumping well enough to be amongst horses during the race and was fearful of being shuffled back.

Bud, the RP analysis the day after the Supreme.
'Much of the race revolved around last years imperious Champion Bumper winner Dunguib, who had gone from strength to stength since embarking on his hurdling career, culminating in a bloodless win in the Deloitte at Leopardstown last month. That success caused plenty of debate about how his jumping would stand up here, as he was sluggish at his hurdles, and there was also the other matter of his usual pilot Barry O'Connell, who had yet to even ride a race over jumps outside Ireland.
Well backed, he was restrained early on, as he had been on his previous outing. It seemed clear that the tactics were to keep him wide, surely in order to give him a clear sight of his obstacles, but his jumping was sufficient and clearly too much has been made of it after his previous win. It was O'Connell's decision to keep him right on the outside of runners, just as the first pair were going for home turning in, that ultimately found him out, and he lacked the turn of foot on this quicker surface to make up the deficit the manouvre cost him.
It may well be that time will tell he has run close to his previous level in defeat, but surely had he saved more ground early on he would have got closer to them when it really mattered.'

Sums it up for me.

I am hoping the form is true and Menora and Oscar Whisky have not let it down. I am hoping the experience has brought him on and he turns up fit and well. The rest is out of my hands. The form through Fionnegras, Reve de Sivola, Peddler's Cross and Binocular is there for all too see and I think 20's is way too big.

Yep.he was sluggish at his hurdles,so they agree with me there.whether his jumping was sufficient as they put it is open to debate for me,but it was a novice race,and its possible he could have got away with it i guess.At the end of the day they were sufficiently concerned about his jumping to allow losing ground during the race by going wide,which was admitted by the trainer.
Simply cannot do the same in the CH and expect to win.
I have never questioned the form by the way,just his jumping,backed up by his trainer.

Bud you obviously read what you want to read not what the facts are, so I am obviously wasting my time.

Of Oscar Whisky it said,
'Oscar Whisky was another oming here unbeaten, in his case two bumper and hurdle outings. He had yet to come off the bridle before this, but having raced handily from the off he got a little outpaced when the race hotted up and could have jumped better. He was running on stoutly after clouting the last and probably could have done with easier ground over this test. He remains a horse of real potential and looks well worth ashotat 2m 4f.'

Note he jumped poorer than Dunguib but no mention from those fancying him for the CH.

Wasting your time??No you aint we are having a discussion and comparing different views,no worries as far as i am concerned mate.
I dont agree with you,thats all,i believe my eyes and Philip Fenton,whats the problem with that??

Of course OW could have jumped better i know that,it WAS a NOVICE race!!
Oscar Whiskey jumped better yesterday than i have ever seen Dunguib jump during a race imo.He has obviously improved,lets see if Dunguib can.
Brigust,race reports are fine,but they are an opinion all the same,and cannot take into account the improvement in horses,especially from novice to the senior ranks.THey were right re a shot at 2m4,as showed yesterday,and imo yesterday also showed he deserves a crack at the CH,a view shared by Barry Geraghty.

Of Menorah it said,

'A brave tactical ride from Richard Johnson saw Menorah just hold of GMOOH where it mattered and the shortened run-in no doubt played it's part in the result. He was perfectly placed on the inside to strike as the tempo increased, but wasn't too clever at three out, and wandered about coming to the penultimate flight, hampering the runner up in the process. Menorah again wandered around coming to the last, but jumped it cleanly and really stuck his head down under strong pressure on the shortened run-in.
Next season connections have the option of going chasing and he has the scope for that discipline, but with the Champion Hurdle division looking quite open he could well test his metle in that arena. This experience could be the making of him and he is as short as 10/1 for that contest'. 

Note his jumping, never mentioned. And the shortened run-in helped the winner and not Dunguib, held up. Also the 'coming on for the experience' a point I am hoping also refers to Dunguib.

yep,the experience could help Dunguib,for you i hope it does,and to be fair it would be good for racing.I will admit Dunguib has fair ol engine on him,and the thought of him,Bin,HF,PC,OW,KK,and Menorah running in the same race is certainly exciting.So many unknowns,fascinating stuff.

The strange thing with Dunguib is why he hasnt been out over in England in at least one trial to groove his jumping on faster ground somewhere. Is that not the obvious thing to have done with him if you have the Champion Hurdle in mind?

Stop coming up with all of these suggestions and queries. I'm nervous enough as it is.
I think they just want to get him there fresh and fit, the rest is down to good fortune and ability. They only plan 1 run in Ireland, I think, and there is only 10 weeks to go, or is it 9?

Lol,think we are all getting a bit twitchy Brigust,its all part of the Cheltenham build up,and we love it.....dont we??
I think they know he aint got a problem with the course,he has a win and a 3rd there after all.

When Dunguib runs and he jumps fine,i will certainly be getting twitchy!!

Good 'heads up' on this one, thanks, Budd. Looked a nice horse again yesterday.

OW has some good form on rain softened ground now and that type of going might play to his strengths in the CH, if they take that route. He seemed to get a bit outpaced on better ground in the SN, though of course that may have been to do with inexperience more than anything and it certainly isn't conclusive evidence that the horse lacks the speed over two miles to compete against the best in that division.

All the same, softer ground would place less pressure on his hurdling. He hurdles well enough, but understandably there are still a few signs of inexperience there. And a bit of cut would bring his stamina more into play and stop those at the front too readily getting away from him. If the ground is anything like it was when Katchit won the CH, that would make OW a very interesting contender. Quite what he can do on better ground, we need a bit more evidence than just his run in the SN, where in fairness he coped well enough at that level on drying ground.

OW won well enough yesterday not to be crabbing the form. No doubt in my mind though that Karabak is much better on a sounder surface and to some extent the same is true with Celestial Halo, who raced with the choke out a bit too much once again to last home strongly.

Not sure where they go with Celestial Halo now. They got him revved up enough to compete effectively in the two mile hurdling division, and now they have the problem of getting him switched off enough to see out the trip well over further. Best race last season was on better ground in the Aintree Hurdle - could be his race again this season, if he has a decent break now.

Cheers AKA,nice to get one right!! He may not win the CH,But he's a darn sight shorter price now.
I really think  this is an interesting one for the race,he has shown speed for 2m,and can obviously stay well.Whether he is up to this level by March is of course open to question,but for sure he is still improving and who knows how much?? Being trained for Welsh CH may be against him slightly,but should be enough time for him between races hopefully.I guess its possible he could skip Chelt and go to Aintree,but their is only one CH,hope they do go for it.

well its d-day for OW tomorrow apparently.

Good run and on to the CH ,but if he dont show enough for 2m then maybe WH or even Aintree!!

Surely Oscar Whisky is unlikely to prove anything tomorrow?

If he is fit and well he should win comfortably.........but it still won't tell us anything about his CH credentials imo

Buddeliea - I spent a good deal of time yesterday looking at all the Champion Hurdle hopefuls and have ended up backing this one to add to my portfolio. I must admit to having been a little unprofessional in not having watched him and only him in the Supreme until yesterday - he got by far the worst passage and in my opinion did extremely well to finish so close to the front three.

Through no fault of his own he was unsighted at key hurdles and on the turn for home, had to be snatched up briefly and did not see daylight until the first three were away and gone. Given that it was also his first real "race", he must have learned so much from it. He looks as though he has bags of toe and now we know he clearly stays well too, I think he is a corking bet at 16s. Obviously this could look stupid tomorrow but I am quietly confident he will arrive at Cheltenham as a genuine contender.

No doubt in my mind Tomdeane.

Marv,
trainer said that tomorrow will tell them whether to stay at 2m or step up.As i have a nice antepost wager for the CH,its rather important to me.Although i am pretty confident that they know what they got!!

Totally agree Tom,i have watched that supreme a fair few times and am sure with a better run he would have been a lot closer,plus he made a bit of a hash of the 3rd last.
Quiet excited about this one to be honest.

Would have liked Overturn running tomorrow to give him a bit more of a test

But he'll win on the bridle, roll on Cheltenham

Tomdeane,well read sir.I backed Oscar in doubles and trebles with Bino and Sizing and his defeat saved Ladbrokes 40 grand, but convinced me i had one to follow.I have kept my powder dry on this thread in the hope that somebody would lay me a good one
tomorrow,sadly no PC or anything else really.
I said to myself that i would back him to beat all the horses that finished ahead in the Supreme when they next met.Aintree was the obvious one but alas he did'nt run again last season.So keeping an eye on the CH betting (Dont know where 100 at 200s came from)i backed him from 100s down to about 23 and feel very exited.I also steamed in at 10s for the Ladbroke which i am convinced he would have won pulling a cart,and slaughtering Mille chief in the process.Anybody who seriously thinks he wont go for the CH and run in the WH, should check out his first race in a 1.5 Bumper at Newbury and time him and Menorah(wont place)from the last in there last Cheltenham races.
I am going to stick my neck out here and say,i dont think he is going to win a CH, i think he could win 3.Incedentally my love affair with this race started with a ill -fated gamble on Birds Nest in 1976.

Derek - great post!

Would have liked him to jump a bit better

Decent effort against snails today but still can't see him reversing Cheltenham placings with Menorah

jumping was fine

Looks a lovely type with plenty enthusiasm and potential - could be anything but his tendency to clout the odd one is a worry.

Very happy with that and think he is a great value bet, although jumping was not perfect in the Supreme and he didn't wing them quite as I would have liked today. Still, all in all, am very happy and have something to look forward to at a price. I suspect the winner of the Champion will come from the front four in the betting, but I also have a feeling some longer-priced runners will be in the places and this one stands out for me.

Just hope he jumps better in the Champion, he will be right there.

On at 16s 4 places with stans, very happy with that myself.[smiley:crazy]

Totally agree, will be among the places, though to say he wont be winning it is being a little silly. The horse could really be anything though yes has to jump better. Last year he did amazingly well to get as close as he did, hampered here hampered there and finished 4th despite again not hurdling too brilliantly! Clear passage, decent jumps, he will be bang there imo!

Surely this horse will only have a chance of winning the CH if its soft ground. Can't see this son of Oscar having the pace to win a good ground CH which is inevitably the sort of ground we get - 16/1 for this reason

I think he is one of the quickest horses in the race and can't for one minute see a lack of pace being a problem.

a good ground CH which is inevitably the sort of ground we get

Well we did last year (despite the clerk's usual dumb insistence that it was good to soft). But the course's stated policy is to aim for good to soft on day one, watering if necessary.  Also, OW has an easy good ground victory to his credit on his debut, albeit in a bumper.

OW will love the ground on day one, it is always manufactured to be good/soft. I get the feeling that this year they wont have to do much to make it perfect ground on the softer side of good.

Backing good/soft early enough to being the ground description at the start of the supreme has always been a bank builder for me for the rest of the week, absolute shoe in. And yet they always seem to want to lay as big as 4/5 most years [smiley:crazy]

When the pace is on will he be able to stay on it AND find a kick off it over the shorter trip as ultimately the race is so good this season that is what the winner will need to do.

OW is not slow and can lie up with them and jump well enough and as people have stated watch his first rn ever in a 1m4f flat race at newbury hes got loads of speed u watch his legs todays hes sprinted all the way to the line from the back of the last if he does get beaten in the champion it will cos hes not good enough in a vintage year not through lack of speed

Sprinting all the way to the line against a bunch of no hopers is a totally different kettle of fish to maintaining a strong pace throughout the race before then finding a brilliant kick against horses with 2 mile speed  .. we know Binocular can do that at the highest level the others we will see.

Yep, he has the speed and he has stamina for the finish,as said above its just a case of whether he is good enough,certainly hope so!!

will say though,that i thought his jumping was not great yesterday,and he needs to jump better more consistently.In the supreme he jumped well apart from a couple,hopefully it will improve the more experience he has,but his jumping could harm his chances this year.
End of the day i flagged him up when he was a massive price so i guess their has to be something to be concerned about!!

His jumping was poor tbh but maybe that could be down to the fact they were going so slow most the race making it harder to get into a rhythm, bit like Binoculars race but he jumped ok thought not great also considering.

could well be right re the pace,ow certainly jumped ok in the supreme apart from a couple.he aint had many races and that could well go aginst him in such a competitive race as the CH is this year.hopefully he will jump better in a proper run race.

Punjabi turned over Binocular in 2009 and he will be turned over again
this year.Yes Oscar Whisky or even Menorah could be the one....

So because he was narrowly beaten as a five year on ground softer than ideal he will get it stuffed up him as a seven year old? [smiley:crazy]

from Barrys Diary.....world hurdle still under consideration


On the track, Nicky Henderson’s team have continued in good form. Oscar Whisky’s engagement in the Welsh Champion Hurdle at Ffos Las on Saturday had been eagerly awaited, and thankfully he came through it with flying colours. While he travelled and jumped well to win in the style we had hoped, I feel he can still improve further. The question now is which race to go for at Cheltenham. If the ground came up testing, there is no question that we’d go for the Champion Hurdle, though that is such a competitive race this year that you couldn’t rule out the World Hurdle just yet. Now, that would be no soft touch either with Big Buck’s and Grands Crus in there, but I’d have no doubt about Oscar Whisky staying three miles. The thing about it is that we’re just not sure which way to go with him yet, as it’s a case of the devil or the deep blue sea as to which race to go for. Still, nothing has to be decided today, and it’s nice to have the options that we have.

got to be the champion hurdle surely?
i mean why would you run a horse unproven over
3 miles even if you ''think'' he'd get the trip?

in a 3 mile world hurldle that is

I can only see this horse not running on the Tues if it was fast (and it wont be).

His jumping was really poor last time out he will be out of the race by halfway with a repeat of that. Maybe he does jump better over further and will be suited to the longer trip.

I don't understand why they are even considering the World Hurdle. Great, he stays well, that is an attribute that helps win Champion Hurdles, and he clearly does not lack pace - the time at ffos las was exceptional considering the weight carried, the ground and the strong headwind up the straight. While beating Karabak and Any Given Day over two and a half is admirable, beating Big Bucks/Grands Crus over 3 is entirely different. It's 1.01 Champion Hurdle for me. And then if that doesn't work out then WH next year, he might lose a bit of pace but he won't lose his stamina.

gb

it is a given he goes for the champion, its just talk.

Eric,
his jumping was really poor??

you sure mate?? whilst i have seen better,i was watching him very closely and saw nothing to worry me that much,will watch again.

just watched again,he was a bit hesitant at the 1st,and hit the last 2,although did not seem to affect him in any way,certainly lost no momentum.Other than that was ok,and a repeat of that would not harm his chances too much imo.