Cheltenham Festival

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27 Nov 10 12:28
Date Joined: 19 Mar 04
| Topic/replies: 15,798 | Blogger: buddeliea's blog
Should see now if my antepost bet is a lively one!!
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Report aka December 6, 2010 11:43 AM GMT
CV - do you think the trainer feels running Dunguib over the winter in Ireland last season might have taken the edge off him by the time Cheltenham and Punchestown came around? Seems to be a very clear plan this time to have him peaking for the Spring festivals.

I thought Dunguib's hurdling looked a little better in the Punchestown CH (albeit under a bit less pressure than was the case in the bigger field race in the SN), so I am more inclined to think his run that day was either marred by him possibly being over the top at that stage or else perhaps it was an indication he might not be quite good enough in top company. The three at the front though looked particularly good that day.
Report CVByrne December 6, 2010 12:07 PM GMT
I think it was a combination of things, firstly he started off in october and had four runs in heavy before Cheltenham. I think the horse was used to ruining in heavy ground and winning on the bridle. So good ground at Cheltenham and being introduced to the whip for the first time in a year plus exaggerated waiting tactics found him out. While he may have peaked at leopardstown. He was over the top at Punchestown and was far too keen. That run can be forgiven.

My take on this is, the trainer has had a look back and realized the campaign was wrong, the tactics were wrong, going up against Hurricane Fly and Solwhit was wrong. He realizes his mistakes and is leaning from them.

I assume intense schooling is going on at home to get his hurdling to improve, while I think focusing on a spring campaign will let the horse be fresher than he was in spring last season.

The horse has absurd cruising speed and the performance in the bumper shows he can quicken away from good horses. He is certainly a good value bet as long as he hurdles well on his first run in the irish champion regardless of if he wins or not.

I hope he becomes a forgotten horse.
Report aka December 6, 2010 12:28 PM GMT
Thanks, CV, that's very helpful.

Dunguib could certainly be another interesting piece in the puzzle, if the trainer can work the oracle.
Report buddeliea December 6, 2010 12:38 PM GMT
My take in him is he just aint a natural jumper and no amount of schooling will alter that.After all i should imagine the horse has had a lot of schooling already,and it aint done the trick so far,and dont see that changing.
Report aka December 6, 2010 12:55 PM GMT
I was trying to remember if we have any examples from the past of horses like Dunguib who start out looking awkward over the hurdles, but get to be much better jumpers with time and experience. I can think of quite a few in the chasing ranks, but perhaps not so many over hurdles.
Report CVByrne December 6, 2010 12:59 PM GMT
Well I think he needs a strong pace and that will help him hurdle better. He was much better at Punchestown and that would give me some hope he can get over the problems. His first run would be very informative given there will be a strong pace and talented field in the Irish Champion.

Personally I believe binocular to be an overrated horse due to that champion hurdle where the top two in the market got injured / was sick. Meaning only Khyber Kim of the horses he beat will be reopposing in March.
Report aka December 6, 2010 1:40 PM GMT
They sometimes hurdle better for being a bit more covered up. If they can bring about some small improvement in Dunguib's hurdling, they may feel more confident about letting him race in the pack in bigger fields, rather than feeling they need to keep him wide, especially as he will be competing now in open company among more experienced, less erratic jumpers. Off a strong pace, that might help the horse to develop confidence and get the hang of things a bit better, as he seemed to be doing to some small extent at Punchestown. 

Not over-optimistic that would work, but got to allow he is still comparatively inexperienced in championship type races as a hurdler.
Report Bobby Dazzler December 6, 2010 4:16 PM GMT
CVB - The view I expressed on Dunguib in relation to ground is my own, to me he didn't seem to be able to produce the same turn of foot off a firmer surface and his action does give the impression he needs cut. His performance in the Supreme was on drying ground, I saw him run at Punchestown in the Irish Champion Hurdle and he didn't seem to handle good ground, he was also beaten by On Raglan Road on rapidly drying ground at Punchestown in a bumper. I don't argue he needs heavy, just that to be seen at his best he needs genuine cut underfoot.
Report Steeplechasing December 6, 2010 5:20 PM GMT
I'm with Budd - I'd be most surprised if schooling makes a hesitant hurdler like Dunguib into one that can compete at championship level.

Bobby will be much more qualified to comment on the effectiveness of schooling in general, but I'd have thought there is merit in schooling steeplechasers as it is possible, theroretically at least, to teach a horse to get back on its hocks or pick its feet up quicker, as there is a certain anatomical shape you need to make to get safely over a fence.

On the other hand, I imagine, most horses can get from one side of a hurdle to the other somehow without having to make that shape change. I suspect good hurdling technique is very difficult to teach - you've either got it or you ain't.  Most top hurdlers are at least highly competent; some, Binocular at his best, are super slick giving them a very substantial advantage.  To my mind good hurdling technique is much rarer than good fencing technique.
Report buddeliea December 6, 2010 6:22 PM GMT
CV,Take your points re GN and Solwhit,but i think it a bit harsh to say Binocular is over rated in his CH win.If you watch him during the race and see how he jumps those hurdles and travelled in the race,he was pretty much faultless and it would have taken a heck of an effort for GO Native to have picked him up,and imo Solwhit aint a 2m CHurdler anyway.It was a tremondous run i thought.
Report R Carver December 6, 2010 6:51 PM GMT
Agred Budd, it was. Go Native and Solwhit haven't posted anything like his deserved figure and they have had their chances, beating KK - a high class yardstick if i ever saw one- readily by that many lengths was nothing short of imperious. I take the point about Solwhit and GN but i couldn't have them in a month of sundays.
Report CVByrne December 6, 2010 7:35 PM GMT
Bobby that's fair enough, and you could be right he may be better on a slower surface.

Steeple I think there may be hurdling improvement from him, he was hurdling much better at Punchestown and with practice I'm sure there can be some improvement. We'll have to wait and see on that one. I'm looking for him to hurdle well in the Irish Champion and be beaten by a fitter horse so then his odds will drift for the Champion at which time he will be backed. If Menorah wins the bula it will certainly boost the Supreme form again.

Also I agree budd calling Binocular overrated is a bit harsh. But it seems he has only ever produced good performances when Celestial Halo is there setting a very strong pace. Also you look at the list of horses he has beaten and look at how many he hasn't that will oppose in March. He is unbackable in my opinion for the Champion.
Report buddeliea December 6, 2010 7:45 PM GMT
Thats fair enough CV,i aint backed him either,but come the day i think it better to have him on your side,just at the moment i agree not backable,nearer the day i dont see him being much smaller.He may put in a performance at xmas i guess,but will take a chance he wont,or at least not impressive enough to affect the current odds.
Report CVByrne December 6, 2010 7:58 PM GMT
Who will he race at Kempton he hasn't faced before? Go Native looks like he'll be going Irish Champion, Khyber Kim and Starluck have been beaten before. Can't see any reason to contract his price much if he wins.
Report gravy December 6, 2010 8:20 PM GMT
This thread is the whole reason why i come onto this forum.

Intelligent, reasoned and informed views with great wee nuggets in there which make for great reading.

Well done lads.
Report aka December 6, 2010 8:36 PM GMT
It is interesting, isn't it, this issue of what might be possible to achieve in relation to hurdling technique through schooling.  I would probably assume that the ability to take the hurdle in an unbroken stride, which you see in the very best hurdlers, is hard, if not impossible to teach, as Steeple suggests.

I would imagine there are small areas of improvement that can be made through schooling, possibly in terms of encouraging those that jump too high to take the hurdles flatter and lower. And possibly also in terms of building their confidence to attack the hurdle and take it straight. I remember PN saying they had seen some improvement in Celestial Halo's hurdling in those areas through schooling and race course runs as a novice.

Whether Dunguib's hurdling would improve if he had a bit less time to think about and view the hurdles, than is often the case in small field Irish hurdle races on winter ground, I am not sure. It must be hard to know, I guess, whether it is lack of the right athletic qualities that makes his hurdling ponderous at times, or if it more to do with confidence.
Report bring on chelt!!! December 6, 2010 8:59 PM GMT
Great posts agree. I do think that KK is the forgotten horse but he may need to improve again and asking a lot given his age. PC just oozes class and has demonstrated he can quicken in top company. I know many mock paying any attention to trainer comments but over the years I listen to a small number and the hype merchants I ignore. Mr MCcain seems a decent bloke to me and he is incredibly excited about what he has in his stable. The beauty of it is his trainer will always ensure you get a bit extra on your price. The value is less obvious but still tempted to top up on PC.
Report buddeliea December 6, 2010 9:21 PM GMT
i know what you mean.I often have reservations about taking too much notice of trainers and to a lesser extent jockeys when they talk up horses,but with PC'S connections,i dont know so much,they seem so confident about him its unreal,everytime they talk about PC you get the impression they know they have something special on their hands,and as i have said before,you can almost see the inward laughing going on!!
Report bring on chelt!!! December 6, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
lets hope so bud
Report The Sawyer December 7, 2010 10:16 AM GMT

You make an interesting point about teaching hurdlers, but I recall seeing a programme regarding the training regimes used in France, in particular those of G Macaire (who initially trained and I imagine intensively schooled Silvianco Conti). I believe that he schools them as very young three year olds, with a special elastic harness fitted forcing them to bend their back in order to jump efficiently.

I also read that by the time they arrive for their first racecourse experience, they have jumped more hurdles at home than most of our horses do throughout their lifetime.

Now training a young three year old before he has developed his own ideas is one thing, trying to educate a 7 going on 8 year old is another - "give me the boy until the age of seven and I will give you the man". I do not think it is a coincidence that Macaire trained SC originally and that the horse looks exceptional over the smaller obstacles.
Report buddeliea December 7, 2010 12:34 PM GMT
I would imagine its pretty hard to stop a horse from being hesitant at his hurdles which Dunguib seems to be.That is obviously his natural way of getting from one side to the other,and to stop that and get him hurdling fluently,would i imagine be beyond cure by schooling.Its a shame cos he has a fair ol engine on him,and if he was fluent hurdling he would be a real goodun,but at this level we are talking about, just cannot get away with losing ground at the hurdles.
Report CVByrne December 7, 2010 2:27 PM GMT
I agree completely that he has to improve his hurdling if he is too have any chance of winning the champion hurdle. As I have said that is the thing I'll be interested in when he runs in the irish champion. There were signs of improvement at punchestown so I believe he can improve while the trainer wanting to wait until better ground in the new year would also allay some fears regarding racing surface.

We will simply have to wait and see on this one.
Report aka December 7, 2010 2:41 PM GMT
The Sawyer

That's interesting information, thanks. Silviniaco Conti's hurdling is certainly very impressive (in the type of race he has contested so far, at least) for such a young and comparatively inexperienced horse.

It would be interesting to know to what extent G Macaire has developed his schooling techniques with the demands of hurdling specifically in mind. Also, to know what he feels his success rate is with young horses and whether there are those he finds difficult to school well even with his carefully thought through approach.

Generally, I find the schooling and training regimes a very interesting part of racing that, unfortunately, often receives very little exposure in the racing media.

What will be fascinating to see with Silviniaco Conti is how well he hurdles in a bigger field at faster pace. At present, he looks very much as you describe, a very well schooled hurdler, lovely balance and smoothness over the obstacles. How far that schooling will serve him well when his jumping is put under the ultimate pressure, will be an interesting test of just how much can be achieved with a well conceived training regime of the kind you describe in relation to G. Macaire.
Report Steeplechasing December 7, 2010 4:31 PM GMT
Yes, interesting stuff about Macaire although that advantage of having an ingrained hurdling style from such a young age must make it very difficult for such horses to graduate to fences. We're in danger of going well off topic here, but I though Master Minded almost hurdled his fences in his last run; breathtaking but potentially heart-stopping too with tiny margins for error.

At his best, my recollection of MM's jumping was a proper spring off his hocks; he has made the occasional awful blunder and appears to have no consistent technique.  I'm not inferring Macaire, or his regime-type played any part in MM's early training, just speculating about the effectiveness of a hurdling style over fences.

I know Macaire has had some chasers here and a vague memory tells me at least one of them made some pretty appalling errors in 'chases but I'm not certain I'm remembering correctly - no doubt others will have more accurate recall.
Report The Sawyer December 7, 2010 5:01 PM GMT

Are you thinking of Jair Du Cochet who was a super young hurdler (fav for the Triumph in F&M year) but never quite transferred that to his chasing career.

Although that was only 8 years ago, it was at a time when many believed (especially Mordin) that French breds never trained on: maybe in JdC's case it was the early hurdling experiences.

With regards MM, I had forgotten he was a Macaire inmate. I notice he came down twice over the French fences and on his UK debut - maybe those early hurdling experiences were the cause.
Report buddeliea December 7, 2010 5:24 PM GMT
Not sure about that TS.Jair du cochet was just about to have a big chance in the Gold Cup after just beating Best Mate in the build up.Unfortunately he got fatally injured on the gallops,so we will never know what would have happened,but he had established himself as one of the top chasers that year.
Report The Sawyer December 7, 2010 5:47 PM GMT
Yes I was forgetting that bud.

My memory of him was his victory as a 4yo at the Jan meeting in Chelt: he was being unsaddled as the rest crossed the line.
Report buddeliea December 7, 2010 6:45 PM GMT
i will never forget it mate,had a very tasty ante post voucher,absolutely gutted!!
Report downallstar December 7, 2010 6:58 PM GMT
Jair Du Cochet was a stunning stamp of a horse, Gold Cup looked at his mercy. Cry
Report buddeliea December 7, 2010 8:06 PM GMT
Shut up down,you just made me feel worse!!
Report Steeplechasing December 7, 2010 8:52 PM GMT
Yes, it was JDC I was thinking of.  Just checked his record and, oddly enough, form comment for his first 2 of 9 runs over fences suggest he jumped really well.  But it looks like his jumping got progressively worse - one UR and a PU where he almost unseated at the 4th plus numerous blunders in other races.

I've mentioned on other threads that after MM's last run, I'd be very wary of taking short odds about him due to his fencing style - he might well be worth laying.

If there is anything in this theory we've been discussing here, perhaps Dunguib should be sent Chasing sooner rather than later!
Report CVByrne December 7, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
Voy Por Ustedes was another excellent jumper who's jumping deteriorated badly. Master Minded like Voy Por was an excellent jumper at his peak but this almost hurdling of his fences resulted in a bad blunder in the game spirit, and you never know. He could suffer again.

Absolutly nothing to do with Peddlers Cross thiugh
Report Steeplechasing December 7, 2010 10:23 PM GMT
You're right CV - nowt to do with PC directly but an interesting digression in that it has led to a reasonable theoretical case against Dunguib being a danger to him.
Report CVByrne December 7, 2010 10:34 PM GMT
Indeed Steeple. I may have been a backer pre his first run in the Irish Champion based on trainers comments on his hurdling. But I think I'll wait to see how he hurdles on course first.
Report buddeliea December 8, 2010 7:44 AM GMT
Steeple,JDC may have made a few clangers,but he routed the Pillar field round Chelt,thrashed Best Mate earlier in the season,and would have won the Gold Cup imo.
Mind you he might have fallen!! i do take your points.

Dunguib over fences,umm,i guess it could work,probably depends on his mindset when he sees them!!
Report Steeplechasing December 8, 2010 12:25 PM GMT
He was a very good horse Budd, no doubting it.  Unfortunately he makes up a very small sample to test the  Macaire hurdle/chase theory on too!
Report aka December 8, 2010 12:37 PM GMT
Yes, bit of a digression discussing the hurdling/jumping technique angle, but could prove more relevant to the debate about PC if (and a pretty big IF) Silviniaco Conti proves just as impressive as PC on Saturday and also continues to hurdle in a way that makes you think he might have a slight edge in that department over most of the other likely contenders for the CH this season, particularly Dunguib who we have discussed and possibly even Menorah, who still has one or two minor hurdling issues to resolve, arguably.

I thought PC would get us typing plenty this season!
Report buddeliea December 12, 2010 9:57 AM GMT
fellow PC fans,
are you worried about Menorah?

I AM!!
Report eric_morris December 12, 2010 10:02 AM GMT
Looking a sitting target who can set the race up nicely for those with a better change of pace like Menorah and Binocular. That is unless he is better than Hardy Eustace / Brave Inca and be given a brilliant ride conserving energy from the front to wind it up gradually up the hill making it more difficult for the others to time their runs to pick him up and sustain that run.
Report buddeliea December 12, 2010 10:59 AM GMT
yep,depends how good PC is,of course.none of us know yet!!
Report CVByrne December 12, 2010 11:06 AM GMT
So many Champion Hurdle contenders are yet to run bud, so many yet to stake their own claims. So there are sure to be some others putting in excellent performances in the coming months.
Report buddeliea December 12, 2010 11:17 AM GMT
indeed mate,the Irish are yet to play their hand,as well as the likes of Khyber Kim.
Could be a real classic this race,certainly shaping up nicely so far.
Report CVByrne December 12, 2010 11:30 AM GMT
Yep. I'm holding off until the day to place another bet on this race. I need to wait until I've seen them all. Also have to see what prices Menorah and Peddlers are on the day. I think both will be bigger prices than they are now. I just know people will support Binocular on the day. While if things go the way I think they will over here, Huricane Fly will be supported by the Irish.

So it'll probably be between Menorah and Peddlers who I back. But you never know Khyber Kim might be over priced. I'm keeping an open mind.
Report alfienoakes December 12, 2010 7:29 PM GMT
I reckon the bet at the moment is Khyber Kim 2nd last year but has not run yeat so has gone off the radar....14s?
Report bring on chelt!!! December 13, 2010 8:28 PM GMT
Alfie I am sitting on 18's but think he has too much to beat and we have probabaly done our money. The value for me is still with PC
Report buddeliea January 18, 2011 12:49 PM GMT
Big day for my mate PC on Saturday.
Anyone any idea on his rivals?,Soldatino sposed to be running i think,dont know of others as yet.
Report buddeliea January 18, 2011 12:55 PM GMT
Just seen that Soldatino may run at Ascot instead.
Also seen the other runners,very poor standard of competition.Aint going to learn any more i think.
Report jsilkycut January 21, 2011 4:27 PM GMT
Peddlers will start favourite on the day for the CH....get your bets on now. Just found out PC is not in the Timeform curent top ten hurdlers? UNBELIEVEABLE!
Report AL BUNDY January 21, 2011 6:15 PM GMT
Steeple - perhaps you were thinking of Douze Douze as the Guillame Macaire dodgy jumper? he went through every fence against Best Mate in his Peterborough chase.

Not sure if it was Jacque Ricqou who was on it.

Sorry - let you get back to Peddlers!!Blush
Report Howdi January 21, 2011 6:20 PM GMT
no way PC will start favourite - he wins tomorrow wont prove anything wont come in 3 points for it ffs
Report bluebirdfan January 21, 2011 6:21 PM GMT
Trainers are running scared of taking him on tomorrow
Report Howdi January 21, 2011 6:22 PM GMT
shame he didnt go to ireland for their champion would have added a dimension .
Report Paul4 January 21, 2011 6:24 PM GMT
agree howdi, would have put HF into perspective aswel
Report jsilkycut January 21, 2011 6:46 PM GMT
dissagree howdi... think the money will come in slowly as people realise he has the best curent form and could see him being fav at the off...ffs
Report buddeliea January 22, 2011 10:34 AM GMT
so now what for PC??
Anything next week? cant think of anything at Chelt,Ffos las the week after perhaps?
Report Howdi January 22, 2011 11:13 AM GMT
No way a horsr marked up at 13-2 will displace a horse who is 11-4 no chance .
Report jsilkycut January 22, 2011 12:03 PM GMT
not seen that before Howdi ???? I am suprised...
Report jsilkycut January 22, 2011 12:06 PM GMT
Think Henderson is playing mind games..'would'nt like to see PC at the welsh CH or Sandown it would be boring'??? think he knows the truth..
Report buddeliea January 22, 2011 12:26 PM GMT
he said he dont really want hard race this time of the season for his horses,in particular i think he meant Bino at Sandown.
Report jsilkycut January 23, 2011 12:16 PM GMT
watched the RP video summary for Haydock before they called it off...more clowns saying PC is 'overated'.. unbelieveable!!   what has this horse got to do to get a little respect???
Report TheBowery January 23, 2011 12:24 PM GMT
^win a champion hurdle...

he wont of course, but that would get him respect.
Report jsilkycut January 23, 2011 12:55 PM GMT
This horse seems to make a habit of doing what he's not supposed a G1 at the festival..thump the Champion Hurdler..stay unbeaten in the process... this NH bred son of Oscar may yet wipe a few smug smiles of of those flat types come March.. respect? he deserves it now as does DM for his handling of PC...
Report buddeliea February 17, 2011 5:04 PM GMT
Well pleased with him today,long time since his last race,needed a good one and jockey made sure he had one.Good to see,the horse relishes his races,and that was pretty desperate ground today.

Must come on a lot for that i would think.
Report NIGHTWALKER February 17, 2011 5:14 PM GMT
All trainers pick him out as danger to there own, must tell you something.Will be having saver on him on day as i already on binocular ante post, but he looks tough nut to crack and has the W factor around Cheltenham - Great winning form - Cannot wait and can see 5/6 in a row approaching the last.
Report jsilkycut February 17, 2011 7:47 PM GMT
That ground today would have stopped a lot of good horses... looked the ideal pipe opener for Peddlers in the run up to the CH.
Report NIGHTWALKER February 17, 2011 7:50 PM GMT
very good horses can go on most grounds, that's what sets them apart to the ordinary ones and PC did as you say jsilky.
Report jsilkycut February 18, 2011 11:26 AM GMT
Whatever gets past PC up the hill, wins...
Report brigust1 February 18, 2011 11:38 AM GMT
Providing he is in front at the time, of course.
Report geoff m February 18, 2011 11:56 AM GMT
jsilkycut Joined: 20 Jan 11
Replies: 53 18 Feb 11 11:26 
Whatever gets past PC up the hill, wins...

Not if 2 or more go past.
That said they will have gone past b4 the hill
Report buddeliea February 18, 2011 12:49 PM GMT
Thing i like most about PC is how much he finds when asked,and often in his races he comes back on the bridle after very briefly being off it.Probably would like to win a bit easier,but when his rider says oh no mate you gotta work he does!!This is a horse that seems to relish his job,and i imagine him being real tough to get past,and any horse that does get past and stay in front of him will have to be bl00dy good on the day,cos PC wont stop.
Reminds me a bit of Hardy in many respects.
Report Fistfulofdollars February 18, 2011 2:51 PM GMT
Buddeliea - as per my post on another forum, PC reminds me of Monksfield...the 1979 CH in particular where he outstayed/battled the speed horse Sea Pigeon (I backed the latter!).. PC has real class; jumps like a champion and has gears to use....It's possible he may get outspeeded and Menorah's the main threat imo....but I wouldn't oppose him until he's beaten.

The run yesterday is part of the prep...albeit it's been interrupted...there's still a month to finish him off...and Binocular's prep last year before running the race of his life..?
Report Just So February 18, 2011 3:46 PM GMT
FOD - I just checked that 1979 CH on youtube - reckon that could be a pretty apposite comparison. In this year's race I can see those roles (MF / SP) being filled by Peddlers and H Fly respectively (no disrespect meant to the latter - but he hasnt seen the course yet) - as you say though the winner may lie elsewhere, with Bino and Menorah both having demonstrated the ability to sustain a finish off a strong pace at the Festival. I do feel though that if Peddlers is right on the day, anything that beats him will know they've had a serious scrap. Hope they all get there in one piece now - serious race in propsect.

what a battler Monksfield was - Sea Pigeon would surely have hit 1.01 between the last two if in-running had been available.
Report Fistfulofdollars February 18, 2011 5:47 PM GMT
Yes it demoralised me at the time...think the Pigeon was about 6/1 and to cap it all I missed his next 2 wins, one with a great ride from Mr Francome...being from the north I used to prefer Jonjo...but I can now look back and appreciate Francome's class in presenting a horse at an obstacle and his timing. Monksfield gave weight and a beating to the pigeon and kybo in the 2m 4f hurdle at aintree that year as well.

You may well be right Just So re HF being the other party...let's hope PC is the one that finds some more!
Report eric_morris February 18, 2011 8:49 PM GMT
Most Exciting race of the Festival to come that's for sure
Report buddeliea February 23, 2011 5:45 PM GMT
just read about Maguire being suspended for the CHurdle.
This is not good news at all,who rides PC now??

Report Brownes Gazette would have won February 23, 2011 6:50 PM GMT
Bud...don't worry, Maguire will be suspension free by the time it finishes!!
Report eric_morris February 23, 2011 7:22 PM GMT
They have to show common sense here and move the suspension dates. This is the best Champion Hurdle I can remember and the guy was trying too hard to win. No way should this spectacle be diminished due this timing they have to move the dates he has worked hard all year for this ride. McCain's horses always trying they are a credit to racing.
Report bluebirdfan February 23, 2011 7:32 PM GMT
Probably just change the 2 extra days to 1
Report Catch Me ifyoucan March 2, 2011 11:07 PM GMT
Report buddeliea March 3, 2011 5:39 PM GMT
YES!! The jockeys back on.
Great news
Report Catch Me ifyoucan March 8, 2011 6:05 PM GMT
WHAT does Ruby ride (if any)???
(presume Paul keeps the ride on Hurricane) ???
Report March 9, 2011 6:44 AM GMT
Unbeaten, I want new superhero, feck this trained for the race ****.[:p]
Report buddeliea March 15, 2011 3:58 PM GMT
Great performance,maybe the jockey could have made more use of him,beaten by a better horse on the day no doubt.
Hope they meet up again.

Well done all the HF backers and believers,your horse is a darn good one.
Report Fistfulofdollars March 15, 2011 4:40 PM GMT
Buddeleia -I had a goodwhackn PC and di him at 12s last year AP in the neptune...trainer had him spot on and ran  cracker...not sure the jock could have done any different ...was always the worry he'd be beaten for speed...ho hum..
Report buddeliea March 15, 2011 5:03 PM GMT
yeh,yer probably right mate,was just thinking of the time being slower than the supreme.
Report apieceofcake March 15, 2011 6:02 PM GMT
Another crack next year, or the Arkle?
Report geoff m March 15, 2011 6:03 PM GMT
Cracking run .If race had been run @ Supreme pace could have been a different story.
Report eric_morris March 15, 2011 6:18 PM GMT
Would have been on for a quarter mill tomorrow if he prevailed. Never mind lesser fish to fry.
Report Rondetto March 15, 2011 6:37 PM GMT
Tell you what Geoff unless it's ridiculously slow which it never is the last thing you look at in a Champion Hurdle is the time.

It's not the pace as such that beats horses in the quick injections of pace.

The race couldn't have gone better for Peddlers Cross and he's been exactly where Jason wanted him to be and the McCain horses as expected dominated things right up until the point Ruby took it up.

Had Binocular been in the race he would have run and used very similar tactics to PC and had he injected a bit more pace than him  I dare say Ruby would have moved that bit sooner.

That we will never know but make no mistake if you ran the race 50 times Hurricane Fly would still have come out on top because he simply was the best horse in the race.
Report eric_morris March 15, 2011 6:39 PM GMT
Best horse won imo, if Mullins can win with him he must be really good.
Report buddeliea March 15, 2011 8:10 PM GMT
yep,best horse won.

i still would like to see them meet again though,only a length in it.
Report eric_morris March 15, 2011 8:41 PM GMT
Binocular would have loved that ground ... shame Hemderson chose to treat him for neck spots just before the race fk sake.
Report Fistfulofdollars March 16, 2011 6:29 PM GMT
Budd...Have watched the race again and my one niggle is that I wonder whether overturn went too fast...they all clustered up after the third last and it would have been better if PC had another the might just have taken the sting out of HF...just a hope but that said Jason sent him about it soon enough and no complaints on the ride for me....Sad
Report geoff m March 16, 2011 6:37 PM GMT
hardly went 2 fast fist.
They where well down on the supreme field @ 1/2 way
Report buddeliea March 19, 2011 12:39 PM GMT
So what next for this fantastic racehorse,Aintree maybe,and then Fences next season i presume.
Exciting prospect indeed if taking to fences.
Report Tucho March 19, 2011 1:28 PM GMT
wins the aintree hurdle then got to go for the arkle next year, potential is unlimited over fences, 16/1 right now surely goes 6-4 favourite when donald confirms it in the summer Cool
Report TD_Gunner March 19, 2011 1:36 PM GMT
Tucho knows Cool
Report bluebirdfan March 23, 2011 9:27 AM GMT
I thought Overturn went too slow if anything
Report splinterboy82 January 21, 2016 10:41 PM GMT
Miss this horse - made loads of money on him in Neptune & ew at big prices for that brilliant CH when he was finally broken by the legend that was The Fly - had a stupid amount on the RFC that day & remember not wanting to touch the king or Hobbs horses with stolen as couldn't have any other than these 2! Great memories - wets the appetite for March - also a sorry reminder of how far Donny Mac has fallen Plain - sorry peeps, just thought this horse deserved a greatest hits of this forum boost! Back to Min, Douvan et al..........
Report wellchief January 21, 2016 11:32 PM GMT
One of my favourite horses; remember his Neptune vividly as he was getting pushed along for a bit and it looked like Reve de Sivola was going to have him.

I was at Haydock when he battered Scriptwriter, who at the time was a 100+ flat runner, and knew he was special.

Backed him when he was second in the Champion Hurdle and then as a novice chaser, but it all fell apart against Sprinter unfortunately that race broke him; a testimant as to how good Sprinter was, who would have won the Champion Chase as a novice, I have no doubt.

I don't think Peddlers ever got the recognition he deserved as a hurdler. People crab Hurricane Fly by saying "he only beat Peddlers Cross" which I think is nonsense.
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