Cheltenham Festival
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
I cant help but think a horse having his first run of the season shouldnt be given a stamina test he hasnt tryed yet. I think he's worth trying to get beat today. Any opinions?
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 86
|
By:
yes agree, china rock with ruby up & looks sure 2 stay the trip.
|
|
By:
Whilst I appreciate your point, I am fairly confident that from a breeding perspective he will get the trip.
His sire (Pistolet Bleu) has sired decent horses over three mile trips in Vodka Bleu, Merigo and Parsons Pistol. His dam sire (Mandalus) has a decent dam sire record over staying trips, and sired stayers himself such as Adamant Approach and Sir Rembrandt. Having said that race fitness and 2lb could be the difference between Sizing and China Rock today. |
|
By:
Agree 100%,also talk of a raid on kempton a little premature.
I know kauto is getting older but the way he jumps and travels around there is simply class. |
|
By:
Sizing Europe has more chance of being beaten than i have of walking barefoot from Nottingham to Alvaston.
|
|
By:
SE well worth a bet at 20s for the Gold Cup imo. A Festival winner and could have been 3 from 3 at Cheltenham bar his injury in latter stages of Champion Hurdle. Goes on any ground, has a strong chance of staying the trip; Gold Cup declared his target if he proves his stamina; Kauto and Denman have doubts hanging over them as do a number of the 'top' novices from last season. Imperial Commander looks the only solid contender to me and 20s SE seems good value.
|
|
By:
Have layed him for small stakes win and place today, but if he does stay trip would be very interesting the options he would have.
|
|
By:
I wouldnt be sure in a decent race. But I thought China Rock was very lucky to get the win last time and Siegemaster needs it bottomless to be at his best
|
|
By:
sjnot sure siegmaster needs it bottomless. That said I would be saying that as Ive backed him small today. Hope they give him a bit of lead and he could put them under a bit of pressure in behind. Hes solid and in a race with a few ? that might be all you need
|
|
By:
Drifting like a barge on here.
|
|
By:
not seigemaster ;)
|
|
By:
this horse is a superstar. gl fella.
|
|
By:
Irish racing [;)]
|
|
By:
grt ride from Ruby, pinched that two out. wouldn't write SE off over this kind of trip yet though.
|
|
By:
IS that person walking to alvaston?
|
|
By:
No chance imo Reyes back down in trip for him.
|
|
By:
Disappointing. Impossible to say how race fit he was though especially with the huge drift beforehand.
|
|
By:
Ran well against a very good and fit horse, hope they stick with the plan.
|
|
By:
Ran very well
 China Rock just stuffed him |
|
By:
Surely you can read into the race more than the bare result sj?
Though going by your previous post I doubt it. Trainer happy he stayed. |
|
By:
Ok lets say he stayed. How fit did you think he was exactly? What is the goal at cheltenham in your opinion?
|
|
By:
Can say one thing if he did stay was simply not good enough and would have no chance against top notch stayers so should drop him back in trip anyway.
|
|
By:
Thank you toon
|
|
By:
80% at a guess, Probably runs in the Durkan then the King George, unless it goes t1ts up there, I'd say the Gold Cup is still the aim.
|
|
By:
Well good luck with that. Being soundly beaten by China Rock and going that route, you know more than me downallstar
|
|
By:
I always find the best guide when a good horse gets beat is how the connections react, I'm more than happy with what i'm hearing, obv I would prefer he had won, but he was btn by a very good horse, who was fit, proven over the trip and given a great ride. GL.
|
|
By:
H de B:-
De Bromhead was far from disheartened by his stable star's defeat and is keen to have another crack at staying distances in the coming months. "I thought he ran very well and I thought Ruby and Mouse had their tactics spot-on as they were always going to test us for the trip," the County Waterford handler said. "His jumping was a little bit rusty but that will improve as we go on and I felt he got the trip, so I'm happy. "He had a big blow after the fourth last and he'll improve a lot for that. "I need to speak to Alan and Ann (Potts, owners) and Andrew, but I wouldn't be opposed to it (running over three miles), I thought he stayed on again after the second-last. "We'd like to know whether we're going two miles or three miles sooner rather than later, so maybe we'll have a look at the Down Royal race (JNwine.com Champion Chase, November 6)." Trainer obv needs to read this thread and think again  |
|
By:
keep him ticking over until the King George, give it his all there then wait until Chelts
should be the plan imo |
|
By:
Trainer obviously knows better than anyone Reyes but i trust my eyes and will be laying it big if it runs in the Down Royal race.
|
|
By:
Interesting (to me, at least)that this was just his second run on good ground in three years - beaten both times. He has won on good, been placed, and also looked to be coming to win his Punchestown race on good against Aitmatov, when falling. Although he plainly acts on it, his record suggests he has a strong preference for some cut, and given Cheltenham's watering policy, he is very likely to get that at the Festival.
Whether that would hinder his chances of staying the Gold Cup trip is another matter. But his trainer seemed pretty determined he'd stay over three miles until they find the bottom of his stamina. Given this, and his marked preference for undulating courses (Kempton best avoided for my money), I think pushing him out to 25s for the Gold Cup is an over-reaction and I'll be taking another little bit at that price |
|
By:
One thing is for sure and that is connections were not aiming him at winning this today, their target is Cheltenham in March - tho' choice of race is still up for debate.
This time last year, connections were basically schooling the horse in public, giving him an education over fences, the horse had to learn how to jump at speed and to do that it had to be fit enough to win. This year, they know the horse can jump and is amongst the best around - so preparation will be different this season. My opinion is that the horse was not given a hard ride today. |
|
By:
Would not touch him with a bargepole for the Gold Cup,3m2f-no thanks.QM or Ryannair maybe.
|
|
By:
He will not stay 3 miles 2 imo and i personally think they could ruin a good horse if they continue to pursue it. why are they not heading down the champion chase route?
|
|
By:
China Rock is a very good horse and to come second to it on his debut over a trip that was going to test his fitness is no bad thing,China Rock has always been seen as a stayer with alot of potential. Today was the time to lay SE not tomorrow.
|
|
By:
blackbeard hows the feet by the way?
|
|
By:
i remember people saying a certain KS would never stay 3m (i might have been one of 'em...), he hasn't turned out too bad. My take on it is that they can step back to 2m in time for March (which might be a slightly risky strategy) but have the first half of the season to find out over 3m. He can have 2x3 race seasons in effect - which might even be too many (perhaps 3 + 2) as is no doubt best fresh.
|
|
By:
Henry de Bormhead:
"We'd like to know whether we're going two miles or three miles sooner rather than later, so maybe we'll have a look at the Down Royal race (JNwine.com Champion Chase, November 6)." Am I missing something here? Surely the smart option is two and a half? Plenty of Graded races to mop up in Ireland and top-notch prizes at Ascot and Cheltenham. This horse is the absolute epitome of a Ryanair type - bags of class and some stamina but not an out-and-out stayer. I love him and maintained he was class even after his Champion Hurdle flop and ensuing spell in the wilderness but if he has the stamina to win a Gold Cup I will give the game up. As I say, I really am as far from a knocker of SE as you can get, but he is just not a pure stayer. Better chance in the Queen Mother but best chance in the Ryanair. |
|
By:
they know they've got a special horse and have a question in their minds that he may get the trip....so they're chancing a gold cup routine with the knowledge that they can revert back if it goes wrong
listening to the trainer i got the impression that he didn't really get the message that he stayed today, and emphasised that the next race over 3 would really tell them, the worry for me is if he took on kauto and had the guts knocked out of him in the attempt to prove that he got the trip, it could knacker him for the rest of the season. |
|
By:
SE's longest race before today was over 20f on heavy ground - won easily. He's won 5 from 13 over 2 miles. Before today he was unbeaten when completing sound in all races beyond 2 miles, including a very easy defeat of Osana at Cheltenham on soft ground. On this evidence, his connections have every justification in trying to gauge the limit of his stamina.
I'm not saying he will get the Gold Cup trip but all those asking why he's not being kept to 2 miles can see the answer in the form book. |
|
By:
Agree entirely with what Steeplechasing says - my comments are really from an ante-post point of view. I don't think he is a bet for the Gold Cup because everything I have ever seen in this horse suggests he will never get home in a truly-run GC. As I say, he is an absolute standout for the Ryanair IMO.
|