Cheltenham Festival
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 86 comments are related to the topic:
Sizing Europe today
Sizing Europe today
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 86
|
By:
too good for the Ryanair imo. GC or QM or bust!
|
|
By:
agree tomdeane, but sounds like de brom wants either QM or GC.
|
|
By:
Just kills me every year we get this - I totally understand the history and prestige can out people off the Ryanair, but it's a Grade One championship race at the biggest Festival on the planet. If I had a horse that was perfect for the race I sure as heck know I would be over the moon to see him jump off with a huge chance, rather than chasing rainbows in the Gold Cup.
|
|
By:
no way the ryannair is an option...they want to know whether he could realistically compete in a gold cup....they already know how good he is over 2, as he is a champion at that distance....the ryannair doesn't come into it as we're not talking about a horse who isn't quick enough for one and not enough stamina for the other....he's proven over one...and they simply need to find out about the other.
the other thing is that we're not necessarily looking at the 3 miles 2 of the gold cup at this point...we're looking at 3 miles around kempton aren't we....big difference....they've got every entitlement to see if they've got a potential king george winner. |
|
By:
Two points to add to that:
Fisrtly, I completely agree that the King George is a race that connections could legitimately be eyeing up - granted of course that Kauto is below his best. Secondly, do we know he has the speed these days to win the QM? A narrow defeat of Somersby does not scream speed - he couldn't beat Golden Silver or Forpady at Punchestown and that doesn't suggest he is the quickest thing on four legs. On a related note, having been all over Somersby for the Arkle last year, I have completely revised my opinion about him. Doesn't look quite top class and although his jumping will always stand him in good stead, he could struggle to win championship races over any distance as he lacks a gear when the big boys quicken. |
|
By:
Who the fk wants to set out at the start of the season to win a Ryanair?? Which ever race he runs in at Chelt, he sure as hell won't be the fkn ryanair!
|
|
By:
tomdeane -
just a few points on your last post... The slow pace at Punchestown set the race up for Golden Silver(Willie Mullins admitted the fast pace of Chelt doesn't suit him), and was a negitive for both Sizing & Forpady. Debromhead went for this race over the Novice as he thought there would be more pace, turned out to be the other way round - Twist Magic refusing didn't help. Somersby got a kick at the start at Aintree, so that run can be ignored - I expect him to be really decent this year. |
|
By:
After Haydock and Imperial Commander last yr i wouldn't be quick to dismiss a horse of staying 3 miles when connections believe he will. We now know through Bobby Dazzler there were mitigating circumstances with IC. However, i believe if Sizing were to prove himself a capable 3miler he should have beaten a 142 rated horse even allowing for race fitness and the likelihood that China looks an improver. Afterall he's now 8 (9 for next yrs cheltenham) and he's a wee bit long in the tooth to be establishing if he can stay the trip.
There were question marks over Kauto getting 3 miles and he has proven to be one of the all time greats so its worth a shot. Hope he stays away from the John Durkan  |
|
By:
tomdeane
agree with you on somersby ...i loved him last year and must have watched the sandown race a hundred times....nothing wrong with his arkle run but the way he performed at aintree was shocking....can't see him staying 3 and the way he ran at aintree will only serve to re-inforce in the trainers mind that the horse should only be allowed onto the race course once or twice a year....it will be frustrating supporting somersby from now on...can't be doing with another hen knight horse i'm afraid. |
|
By:
Well fook me, I'm not talking about the new two-and-a-half-mile novice chase, I'm talking about a Grade One championship race. And, as I've said before, I'm not saying connections shouldn't be experimenting so that they know where they are going, I'm saying Sizing Europe does not have the stamina to win a Gold Cup, and that he might well not have the speed these days to win a Queen Mother. Hence the Ryanair suggestion. A race in which he could very well end up in come March.
|
|
By:
must admit to not realizing about the kick at the start of the aintree race....but in saying that the time it will take to get the cotton wool off that leg ...we might all have gone home
 |
|
By:
Swin[;)]
tom - my agression was at the ryanair, not you  |
|
By:
Must confess I hadn't heard about the kick at Aintree either, but as duffy says, it's not going to inspire Hen to attack with him this year.
downallstar - I take your point about the pace not suiting SE at Punchestown but as you mention, it will certainly not have suited Forpady, who needs a good lick to utilise his crusing speed even more than SE. So, for all that Forpady is a smashing horse, he is probably just a few pounds below the very best and he still finished in front of SE. Just enough of a doubt for me that SE has the pace to be fully effective in a QM to believe connections - sooner or later - will give very serious consideration to the Ryanair. |
|
By:
SE not enough pace for the Queen Mother? IMO he would be very well suited by a fast ran 2 miles and would easily have the pace. His best career performance IMO was in last years Arkle over 2 miles where his pace and jumping grounded everything else to the floor. I would love for him to stay but I hope they don't mess him about this season and end up thinking why did we do that!?
|
|
By:
masterminded
if your name sake isn't in decline and all goes well with him , i'm hoping they miss out the game spirit in the hope that he arrives at the festival in the sort of form that he was when he won at newbury last season. |
|
By:
masterminded i think the horse is a cracker. i think pfn is a great trainer and i hope he gives his heart to the cause of getting him back on track but i worry that with the ammo hes got in this division he wont be overly worried about his fate. i sincerely hope for racings sake that he gets back on track
|
|
By:
Ryanair? rofl
|
|
By:
It does look the perfect race for him.Connections seem to want a bigger pot and thats fair enough if the horse is up to it,if its not its bl00dy stupid.
Time will tell as always,but to train a horse for the QM or GC you really dont want to be messing about too much with different distances,unless you have a Kauto!! |
|
By:
As mentioned briefly in my earlier post, I think the King George would be a mistake. He has never run on a sharp track, can still look rather gangly and disorganised, and I think a KG run would do much more damage than good.
|
|
By:
Yes, I think those are good points, Steeplechasing. The typical pace in the KG, the nature of the fences, and the sharpness of the track, all readily conspire against the less experienced jumpers, imo, and particularly so if the horse is not especially nimble and quick in adjusting its stride at the fences. And Kempton is very much a track where, if the jumping isn't pretty much spot on, horses can quickly lose a lot of ground and find themselves struggling with confidence and being unsettled by the pressure they come under.
I have the impression SE is a safe, clean enough jumper, but not especially nimble or athletic and I just have the sense (possibly unfounded) that he may be one who could get knocked out of his jumping rhythm a little more easily than some on a track like Kempton that doesn't necessarily play to the strengths of a strong galloper. |
|
By:
Agreed aka. The horse always looked as if he wasn't quite sure what to do when approaching a hurdle and he still does not look the finished article over fences. He seems a careful jumper who's priority is to keep himself safe. His record on softer ground suggests that the generally slower pace on such a surface suits him as he has more time to get organised without losing touch with the others.
I'm not yet convinced either that they have found the best way to ride him. He seems a naturally keen type between his fences and his high cruising speed and apparent liking for plenty daylight suggests he might be well worth trying from the front. Connections seem to have made some half-hearted attempts at front running before, but they ought to commit for a full race, imo, and see what happens. |
|
By:
He got beat yesterday soundly by by CHINA ROCK RATED 142 [smiley:crazy] Gold Cup horse my harris
|
|
By:
Steeplechasing i agree with you completely when you say he is worth trying from the front. I think they are doing the right thing seeing will he stay the three miles but i think they would be much better off giving the horse his head and let him gallop and jump. To me the horse has a high cruising speed but doesnt really have a big gear change in him. On another note i cant see how people can say a winner of an irish champion hurdle and an arkle doesnt have the speed for a champion chase
|
|
By:
sj, Morris has always thought a lot of China Rock and it looks like the horse is now fulfilling his promise. He certainly ran well above his rating yesterday with ground, trip and fitness in his favour. Morris says he'll now compete with Grade 1 horses so it might be best to wait and see how he performs before condemning SE on the basis of that defeat.
|
|
By:
??? Where has all of this talk of Master Minded come from? I was talking about Sizing Europe???
|
|
By:
I think he was lucky to win the time before steeplechasing, but time will tell.
|
|
By:
Indeed sj. No real connection, I know, but Planet of Sound was rated 142 in January 09 and last time out beat two Gold Cup winners!
|
|
By:
moneypenny > AIG was on yielding ground with Hardy Eustace and co making it a proper test of stamina and, although you obviously have to have speed to win an Arkle, it is much more of a stamina test than many people are still prepared to concede.
SE certainly has the pace to win Grade One races over two miles but I think he would be found out if the ground is good or better in a lightning fast QM. Especially, as a few have alluded to, because I don't think he is a real quick jumper. You can all laugh but I maintain he will end up in the Ryanair. |
|
By:
Name a better jumper of a fence, esp a novice.
His jumping the other day was a little rusty, but that is being very picky. His jumping on the whole last season was as good as I've seen. The horse has a massive engine, and a very high crusing speed. Will come on a hell of a lot for that run. |
|
By:
Agree - not put off by that performance. Like some though, am concerned the trainer may 'mess about' with the horse too much trying to establish whether he can challenge the best over 3 miles, and that he'll ultimately fall between two stools, and not end up achieving very much.
|
|
By:
He'll have to come on a hell of a lot as well wont he? Could you imagine Denman and Kauto against China Rock
 |
|
By:
Well we'll see how China Rock gets on at Down Royal. Horses can improve sj.
|
|
By:
They sure can mate
|
|
By:
Dont blame connections for trying this route and being remaining positive after what was a decent enough effort first time up. I wouldnt want them to persevere for too long mind...
I dont think he'd ever stay well enough to win a GC. |
|
By:
The undulating and testing Down Royal should prove a sound test if SE turns up there - I believe the track will suit him nicely.
From a practical viewpoint, I'm on tomdeane's side as far as the suitability of the Ryanair goes for these in-between horses. But that's for the realists in this game and there ain't too many of them around. Glory is the target, as Bobby Dazzler proved with such panache and courage last season when the Ryanair looked a penalty kick for Imperial Commander. Unless Sizing Europe proves a blatant non stayer, I think you will see him in the Gold Cup. |
|
By:
sizing is a great price for GC.WOA and KK are 2 arkle horses who went on to win KG and GC
|
|
By:
Better to be a realist then ruin a horse trying for personal glory,lets hope they know his capabilities sooner rather than later.
|
|
By:
I'm confused why they aren't committed to the QM.
He's an Arkle winner, Irish Champion hurdle winner, and but for injury probably a Champion Hurdle winner? His exuberant style of racing as a novice chaser - front running and great jumping seems perfect for the QM.  |
|
By:
Agree Uncle. I just don't get why it isn't going down a traditional Gold Cup route. This season could be a write off if they are not careful.
|
|
By:
Soory that should read Champion Chase route !
|