Cheltenham Festival
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Spirit River
Spirit River
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Replies: 178
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They all jump well unitl the obvious mistake mate. Celestial Halo has made 2 obvious mistakes in 2 races now.
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Don't think he's merely made 2 obvious mistakes, Halo never looked a natural to me, not seeing the right stride or anything.
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tried to go long, stuttered into it, couldn't get legs down quick enough. i'd actually put that down to jockey error as much as the horse. totally diff mistakes to the ones CH makes/made
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The good uns often find a way of standing up even after a blunder like that. These 2 dont look natural to me and both need 2m 4f minimum. Celestial should be going back staying hurdling imo.
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I thought he jumped very well upto his fall and his mistake wasnt really a major blunder. But thats novice chasing i guess.
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eric morris are u on drugs mate spirit river looked a complete natural today its his first race over fences he,ll learn from that mistake and falling will teach him a lesson hes a bay and at least he lives to fight another day unlike poor old tell massini
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hes a bay meant to be baby
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Complete naturals dont fall first time out. Keep taking the drugs.
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Any horse can fall, the 'greatest jumper ever' (if such an answer could be determined) could fall, complete naturals can fall. Acid test NTO but i would not be particularly concerned by that today.
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Not questioning the horses ability but jumping is the be all and end all upon which the rest is based. Not too worrying unless he repeats it next time out like Celestial. Anyone who hasnt backed him the Festival should watch his next run first before getting a position on the 2m 4f race.
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Well Kirk, off the top of my head Moscow Flyer fell first time out and he did ok afterwards - I'm sure there are numerous champions who fell 1st time out.
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If he did fall next time out would he go back hurdling for his own safety?
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Eric, like i say, not massively worried about that today, and like you, i think NTO is key. I'd take him somewhere soft initially for a booster.
Uncle, is EM actually KSM? |
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eric morris has to be fishing.
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It's no the falling, it's the learning that counts. I remember Kauto Star falling at Exeter and when favourite for The Queen Mother but he seemed to learn OK.
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would not worry too much about him,like others have said any horse can fall,even the best ones.He looked a natural to me,no way would i be concerned,although his next race becomes interesting as to how he reacts to falling.
Cel Halo on the other hand got round,but looks far from a natural to me. |
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Have to say flattered to be mentioned in same thread as ksm.
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Spirit river looks like a special horse to me. He absolutely looks every bit a champion. I did my conkers on him today but I'm sure I will get it back.
As for poor old Celestial Halo he just is not a chaser. I didn't think he would win today but I thought he would get schooled around for second(behind S.R) and then come on for it. But he uses so much energy getting over the larger obstacles I just don't think he will ever enjoy it. He looked pretty nervy before the race IMO and afterwards looked like a really drained horse. I don't think these flat bred horses should be expected to take to fences just because they are viewed to be no longer good enough over hurdles(FWIW I still think he's competitive in the big hurdle races). Anyway I thought Nicholls was going to give him a low key easy run somewhere to build his confidence up!? I just think he jumps well enough at the start but when the finish of the race is coming up he starts to struggle because it's such an effort for him. |
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His next run is extremely important, dont fancy him jumping at speed ... another 2m 4f outing see how it goes. Horses can lose their confidence quickly if their jumping goes wrong early ... remember Fundamentalist?
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I wonder if Celestial Halo might take over in the 3 mile hurdling division next year when Big Buck's goes over fences?
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Have a feeling Spirit will end up in RSA,and have had a dabble before todays race.Think a horse that wins the Coral Hurdle will get 3m over fences,or has a fair chance anyway.
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Celestial Halo wouldn't stay 3m in a taxi.
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I just had a quick look on the Sporting Life website at how easily he won over 2 miles at Cheltenham in December. Admittedly he was well handicapped there but that definitely wasn't the performance of a slow horse. The time he tries 3 miles plus over fences will be in the 2012 Gold Cup I hope.
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Guess it depends on how much they push him this season,looks a 3 miler in the making,just a case of when.The owner has 2 others that look 2m- 2m 4,and maybe he will try SR over further as they know he stays further.We shall hopefully find out fairly soon.
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I can understand your angle budd, personally a horse that shows enough speed to go close in a totesport trophy can stay 3 miles on a good day but not be a true stayer.
A stiff 2 miles at this stage in his career is what he wants, shame the owner/stable have too many options. thats why i have backed him for the Champion hurdle.  |
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Champion Hurdle is an interesting option I'd not thought about but, after today, and as he's only 6 next year, that could be his target if they decide to wait a year for fences.
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He looks to me to need 2m 4f he doesnt look an Arkle horse imo he stays but the question is how far?
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Dont take this wrong but when has he shown the need for 2m4f+ ?
His best trip may well be 2m4+ but i have not seen anything so far to back this up, he has a high cruising speed. |
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I don't think they need to go for 3 miles with him yet. Eventually he might well get 3 miles well. A lot of trainers and I myself also think that when you start to test a horse over further they lose their speed. No need to do that just yet.
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The Carol Cup ... he was going away at the close he has stamina speed not pure speed imo. He didnt look a Well Chief, Azertyuiop or Moscow Flyer in the making to me, he is head down keen pushing it strikes me as a horse who will pull away from horses with less stamina. Think there will be others with more pure speed than him, Finian's Rainbow for one though he does need to produce a kick when it matters.
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Surely his Coral Cup win shows 2m4f or thereabouts is ideal? Dosen't mean 2m or 3m is beyond him but the new race would be ideal imo?
He's a very nice prospect but not sure he has done anything to say he is 'really special' - time may prove that to be wrong but I don't see him as future a Gold Cup winner etc. |
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Fair enough.
I just think he won the race by being handy on the bend and being the best handicapped horse. I sort of think he is a 2m4f horse so that makes him ideal for the arkle at this time in his career. |
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his best performance i would think thus far was at Cheltenham.That was a handicap over 2m5f,and he werent stopping.Dont say Arkle to me and as for the CHurdle,not in a million years.Owner has 2 other horses that are more like 2 milers,also if you look at how they are campaigning the horse,it seems to me they have already stepped him up in distance with success,and owner saye he is a stayer,seems pretty straightforward to me.
IS, If you think he is a 2m4f horse,dont you think he would be better off in the 2m4f race at the festival,bearing in mind he has already won over slightly further at the course,or even stepping up another couple of furlongs. |
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I dont think this horse at this stage of his life is an out and out dour stayer, but he clearly stays further than 2m, travels well enough to be effective at 2m on a stiff track/testing conds, and given how the trainer seems to dislike running horses over 3 at an early stage of thir life, i imagine he'll end up in the 2m4 race.
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As I said before he stayed 2m 5f at Cheltenham going away at the close which shows far more of a staying trait than staying 2m 5f away from Cheltenham. You cant directly compare 2m 5f at Cheltenham and 2m 5f away from Cheltenham as being equal as we know because Cheltenham takes a lot more getting than anywhere else.
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And just because you win over 2 1/2 miles plus doesn't mean you won't be a top class 2 mile novice chaser, which you need to be to win an Arkle. Horses with blinding speed rarely win the race, Tidal Bay was a 2 1/2 mile novice hurdle winner at the festival and others I've already mentioned stayed further. It's a long way from the bottom of the hill to the finishing line and I wouldn't want to speculate on horses who've either never been there or failed to do it when they have unless there was a good reason.
Horses with pure 2 mile speed are more suited to the Sandown's. Newbury's and Aintree's of our sport. |
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i stand by my comments about celestial halo
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Booster,you are right he could well be an Arkle horse,none of us know for sure,but he has to run in the race,and at the moment his campaigning and comments from conections point to not running in it.And when talking about a Coral Hurdle winner it aint surprising.
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Will surely be aimed at new 2m 4f novice chase.
Its been made clear Finians Rainbow is their Arkle horse |
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It has but its not sinking in with some.
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