GB flat sires 2021

Camacho finally breaks the tie with Drew Breeze providing his second of the year.

started off 2021 in fine style camacho adds winner number 4

Camacho and Dubawi set the pace but Kodiac is only one behind.

im still waiting for lope de vega to get his first winner of the season, last year showcasing  had a 20/1 winner on january 1st

There is a lot of chance involved at such an early stage! Dubawi hardly had any before June last year but has 4 already. Probably because a lot of well bred horses are still waiting for their first and second runs that would normally have been put away by now.

chance is my favourite variable, kingman got his first winner in the oppenheimer colours, will need a lot more 3yo's for lope de vega this season, considering he only had 36 2yo's
last year, plus an above average crop of 2yo's, theres no way of knowing that will be the case

That looked a good maiden to me and Alto Volante had the pedigree to win.

racing post star performer, the favourite was a showcasing and didnt inspire confidence in that field at the price and there was a lope de vega outsider, beaten 15 lengths on
debut, only left the winner in the optimum price range, don't have a betting tank at the moment, hopefully things will be ready for the start of may, lope de vega finally had
his first winner, the drift on the runner up pistoletto who was well backed when the markets opened the day before, meant the F/C paid well, crossed  my mind to post it on here,
ive done tipping threads for years and there is no upside. more enjoyment picking your own winners.

arion pedigrees are not updating their GB tables yet for 2021, maybe they wait until the official start of the flat season, had a good idea for next years start of the season,
list of the top 50 stallions, as each stallion gets his first winner, cross that off the list until there are no more left, impossible to post on a thread too much typing,
lot easier to write a list on paper and do it that way, could be very informative and financially rewarding. will try that next year.

when your evaluating the chances of your selections, something ive been interested in is the % probability, something i haven't incorporated into my betting process yet, BITODDS
conversion table, think it is very important in moving past the price and onto the % probability as an indicator

The RP site is fairly accurate but not updated at weekends. Exceed and Excel is now top with 6 wins but he often is in January. His progeny seem well suited to AW surfaces.

arion pedigrees is up and running since 15th january, don't know if the racing post will let readers read the sires of 2021 articles eventually, im curious to read those, will join and pay a subscription later this year, will make things easier for keeping notes on the horses with as fewest words as possible

double today takes Dark Angel top from Exceed and Excel and Lope de Vega.

Having caught up with 2 days results today the lead is shared by Invincible Spirit and Exceed and Excel on 10 from Dark Angel 9 and Lope De Vega and Sepoy on 7.

OMFG cant  believe  the top 10 table = screen shot

got it 10.07 am

The top 3 in the table all produced a winner at Newcastle this evening as did Kodiac. 2021 Leaders as of today:
Invincible Spirit and Exceed and Excel 13
Dark Angel and Dubawi 12
Lethal Force 11
Kodiac 10

thanks for  the update, been lil busy with threapy on my mind

Exceed and Excel on 20 GB wins in 2021. Very impressive with today to come.

2 more for Mayson today brings him to 16 and equal third place. I didn't see that coming.

thanks for update, interesting table at moment , havent been keeping up with results, good to see man city top of table, even though im
an arsenal fan, klopp was getting bit to big for his boots

That Stone Soldier looks ok Sageform. He could well pick up a big handicap this year. Mayson's do ok as older horses if they survive their usual hard 2/3yo careers.

let me know if you  have  any cash in hand work, can travel from london, dont need accommodation, getting bored of london with no cash

At long last we can look at some 2yos to run on turf in the Brocklesby. Not sure any of the pedigrees impress me though.

ill take a look, no money to bet, hopefully internet still ygoing until wednesday 31st, runsout on 29th

roadrunner, some of your recent posts have seemed a bit off colour and you seem up against it at times.
I hope I have misread this and all is good tor you or at least are getting the support you need.

Laying off the betting is never a bad thing though, so I am pleased for you in that respect!

YES  go to AA meetings for the violence pub crawls , things getting much better, prefer being on racetrack seeing them in horses in the flesh, still have to learn about confirmation

Can't see us back on course before June at the earliest. Although I have stopped going regularly, I might enjoy a sunny afternoon at Salisbury in July or August to see real horses again. Hope all is well for you roadrunner. I only bet to £2-5 stakes for the fun of it and my RTV subscription is about the same as my betting loss for a year. I was spending £1000 a year on Annual memberships so that has been a big saving.

broke s22 is average field on paper , my ones not running, odds are not in the zone, j butler horse only cost a 1000, will hit 1000 IR first

hope you played a blinder in the broklesby lincoln result was awesome too, love to meet up in magical salisbury, cant promise or make plans yet, be lucky

first group win for summerghand today, cost me playing safe putting oxted in 4timer, should done another £2 line, knew the favourite might not vbe fully tuned up, definitely getting back now the bookies open again, south kensighton william hill shop, my first landing zone for  a payout.peter the great was disappointed that wasn't in my bet

lope de vega is doing well so far on 28 wins for 2021, jan to end of june had 39 in 2019 and only 26 in 2020, will need to average 10
a month now to hit target 110-115, just catching up, returned around 97 points on the first 104 races at SP prices, superb so far

Dubawi has now taken the lead in GB flat wins in 2021 on 42. Three clear of Dark Angel and Exceed and Excel with Frankel close behind in fourth.

lope de vega has returned 167.55 for 205 runs so far at SP prices , had a quiet spell last 3 weeks, interesting stats as well, theres been 26 winning older horses and only 6 three year old winners, just 1 two year old runner so far, expect the three year olds to catch up soon, talbeyah made a good impression LTO,
steps upto listed class tomorrow, the dam was a listed winner in france so has a nice pedigree, hopefully will give the favourite a run for its money, on paper
looks between those two.

10 minutes later 3yo abstinence wins at 33/1 for lope de vega and ralph beckett, only have 10 trainers on my follow list (never changes)  and hes one of them

talbeyah was 2/1 at one stage, then drifted before the off, overbet written allover, came down the run-in with legs like a giraffe, maybe the track didn't suit
the horse, not a bad run beaten just over 3 lengths, the winner caught my eye when i done the maths, wasn't betting myself in the race, apologies for not posting my final thoughts, if you check golden horn's progeny  nearly all the top 10 are fillies, anyways a very good weekend for lope de vega with 4 winners
in last 3 days.

lope de vega has notched 40 wins for the season so far, first 6 months in 2019 = 39 wins and 2020 = 26 wins, the first dual F/C on monday when ispahan 11/10 favourite romped home by 4 lengths, and had first juvenile winner on debut, unfortunately the number that went through the sales ring in 2019 were down by around 15 & 20, compared to  2018-2020, im not to familiar with the dates, think im right, thats made it difficult reaching my target, we will see, going well so far.

red mirage and indigo times from last years thread both won the other night on the same card, whats the chance of that happening, since than they have raced 9 times and won 7 times

talbeyah was suited by the track today, the fact it is a slightly up hill finish most of the way makes it quiet a testing course which favours a big galloping horse, its not always easy to judge a horses size unless your at the track, was right about the track LTO

frantoio 3yo for lope de vega should of won yesterday, just got unbalanced on the run-in, step that up to 10f should be upto winning a race soon, reason ive mentioned that race, is the following race run over 8f on same card was won easily by piselli molli that was only rated 59, that race was 1.82 faster, looks very good performance time wise

put these up for tomorrow  15 x 20p 4 folds - 6 x 20p 5 folds - 1 x 6 fold 80p = £ 5 in total

3.40 bickerstaff 16/1

3.45 temple bruer s/p

8.15 coleys koko s/p

3.25 ensured s/p

2.50 latest generation 7/2

3.20 side shot 13/2

not a bad first effort, just the two winners, could easily of got a four fold, one denied a clear run and other one missing the break than racing wide all the way round, on a positive note all six selections placed with seven place market in the pavers foundation race

Listed winner for Frankel takes him to 54 GB flat wins. Third behind Dubawi and Dark Angel.

And the last for good measure. Frankel is really getting going this season.

lope de vega's first 302 runs has returned 312.60 points at BFSP and 57.60 points profit at BFSP, 3/3 for 2yo's this season, compared 36-4-5 for 2020 2yo's,
has had a quiet royal ascot this week, their was a big gamble on 3yo winner wise judgement 13/2 into 7/2 recently

3 more for Frankel yesterday so closing on the top 2. Dark Angel still having an exceptional June though with 16 wins in 17 days compared to 14 for Frankel and 11 for Dubawi.

im still not convinced kodiac wont swoop into the lead eventually later on through the winter, his amount of winless horses last two seasons has been a lot

its all relative, dark angel had 101 GB wins after two seasons / kodiac had 97 GB wins after three seasons / mehmas has 90 GB wins so far in two seasons

It may be instructive to look at the first 2 crops of a sire to get an idea of their best distances.
Dubawi started with 31 and then 93.
Sea The Stars 8 and 37
Frankel 22 and 46.
This year there may not be that much between the three of them as older stayers race for longer and trainers learn how to handle them. My figures only include GB wins of course.

dont look at distances, dont want to put what i do down  for other people to steal my ideas and methods, your right its something haven't got around to looking at in depth, good price FTO winner for mehmas tonight

Different monthly list from the year one. GB flat wins in June.
Showcasing 18
Mehmas 18
Frankel 17
Dark Angel 16
Dubawi 16
Kodiac 15
Night of Thunder 14

was reading last season that mehmas might struggle in his second season as a sire more evidence today hes going to be challenging the top sprinter stallions, dont think they will be increasing his stallion fee just yet, only a matter of time imo, not been many runners for lope de vega for this month so far, aint doing too bad with 3 winners so far, needs a really good couple of months with 15 + winners

Three more for Dubawi in the last 2 days moves him back in front (76) of Dark Angel (75) and Frankel (72) with Kodiac (69) keeping pace in fourth. Sea The Stars (59) is now 10 winners behind Kodiac in fifth.

Frankel only one behind after 2 more group winners today. Light Refrain and Snow Lantern. What a season for what looks certain to be the champion sire.

no stopping these mehmas horses, two pattern races and now the super sprint this week, might even break into the top ten leading sires list this year

And another easy win at Catterick. That is 36 GB wins since June 1 which is the highest by any sire. He is also in my top 10 for the calendar year with 56 wins which is very rare for a second season sire.

lope de vega has got 10 wins so far this month, would be great if can get to 15 for month, ive backed more losers than winners i think, missed lot of the winners, too busy using my old version of form reading, still time to  back some of the winners.

A good week for Dark Angel who is now in a clear lead on 90 from Dubawi on 85 GB wins in 2021. Kodiac up to 84 and Frankel 81. No Nay Never has had an amazing week at Goodwood moving up to 38 but much higher at 7th in the money won standings.

Sageform Dark Angel is super reliable and every year he gets loads of winners and very good horses. I am surprised he hasn't got a decent stallion son yet. I am beginning to think he may struggle in that department now.

Lethal Force and Gutaifan are doing OK and Markaz is just starting.

I suppose so Sageform and Harry Angel may help his cause next year. He just seems to have been around a long time (just had a quick look and its 14 seasons at stud) with lots of good horses. I thought he may have got one to talk about a bit by now.

Well I suppose if you take a colt retiring at 4 then it is 8 crops of 4yos or above truehonch.

Doesn’t sound as bad perhaps.

Certainly no stars yet for sure and if you are a devotee perhaps you could argue that the first 4 crops didn’t contain many mares that would have helped him out!

I think he will get one or two sire sons as Lethal Force and Gutaifan are prolific winner producers so with the right pedigree background, whatever that is, the odds are in his favour to improve.

that 100/1 winning 2yo for lope de vega, knew i was onto something sums up my season so far missing that one

as of 11 august 473 runs for lope de vega, 264.25 + at BFSP in profit and its been the 2yo's that have smashed it out of the park 9-5-6 and the 3yo's had another big priced winner 43-17-23.

Kodiac finally takes the lead. 98 to Dark Angel 97, Frankel 95 and Dubawi 94.

Dark Angel clear again on 107 from Kodiac 101 and Frankel now on 100 after Sadmah won.

wonder if mehmas can get to 100 GB wins this season, that would be amazing and no doubt hes gonna go very close to that total

lope de vega is going well this month with 10 winners so far and 15 last month, looking good to hit my target of 110-115 wins for the season, think he will get the necessary wins on the AW

Australia is the second Epsom Derby winner to sire 50 GB wins this season, well behind Sea The Stars on 96 (which is outstanding for a staying sire). The next best are Golden Horn, 44, Camelot 41, New Approach 31 and Galileo 24.
Dark Angel continues to set the overall pace with 130. Kodiac 123, Dubawi 120 and Frankel 118 are the others ahead of Sea The Stars.

Cave Diver was the seventh winner for Ulysses this month. He is really impressing me as a sire of staying 2yos after a predictably slow start. The first 2 in the 1.30 at Nottingham could prove very useful.

Yes, to have ten individual winners before the end of September is remarkable considering how late-maturing Ulysses was himself - and his highest rated horse hasn't yet won. Delighted for Cheveley Park Stud.

Dark Angel is now a clear leader in the GB sire stats. Two already today makes 13 in 11 days of October and 148 for the year.

I have been very disappointed by Churchill's first crop, as several well-known judges said his foals were particularly striking. Hopefully 2022 will see a breakthrough, as I am a big fan.

I think he has done ok zygote, those 2yos should improve next season. His sales held up terrifically this year as well.

I think that is very harsh Zygote. Churchill has performed very well considering they all strike me as big scopey horses. He is 3rd in terms of winners for first season sires. 2nd in terms of stakes winners. Not sure how you could be disappointed to be truthful. As a breeder I’d be delighted looking forward to the likely progress next year as 3yr olds

I think Wootton Bassett is the one they all have to beat over the next 3/4 years. His European 2yo's have done great both quantity and quality. He can only improve where he is standing now and I'll stick my neck out and say he will be champion stallion in 3 years (2024).

Many of those bought in France today seem headed over to UK and Ireland so you may be right. Until now, most of his progeny have raced in France.

Many of those bought in France today seem headed over to UK and Ireland so you may be right. Until now, most of his progeny have raced in France.

Yes I saw that. If he repeats his current  performance with his remaining foals in France and gets some of those good mares that G got, he could have a great couple of seasons in a couple of years. That's why I think he could do so well. He's just such a good cross for those G mares as well with Nureyev so close up in his pedigree. I actually thinks he's quite exciting.

Just had a look at his progeny list and I was surprised to see so many high ratings. He has only had 23 wins in GB this year so that puts him a very long way down my list but he is doing much better abroad so far. I thought they needed soft or heavy but recent evidence suggests that is not the case.

as of 23 october lope de vega 695 runs 243.84 points profit at BFSP and 101 wins so far

made mistake on yesterdays calculations its actually lope de vega 675 runs and 256.84 points profit at BFSP, would be interesting to know how the other stallions in the top 10 have performed in comparison, would take too much time to do

Interesting stat. He does seem to get plenty of good priced winners. This season GB turf only, 64 wins from 640 runs. AW in GB only 38 wins from 237 runs so better percentage on AW.

Dark Angel increased his lead yesterday with wins in the first 3 races at Wolverhampton. 159 for the year and 17 clear of Dubawi so he will be very hard to beat now.

After a relatively modest 9 wins in November, Dark Angel ifs flying this month with 13 so far and 178 for the year. The all time record for a calendar year is 181 by Kodiac in 2018. Dubawi and Kodiac are tied on 153 this year with Frankel on 130.

another winner for lope de vega today , on 112 wins now the form was exceptional, prefer when theres no form now always remember that 271/1 that got away , had planned to put 100 on an opportunity like that, ofcourse would never of known it would happen, was hopeful

merry xmas and happy  new year

A win today at Lingfield moves Dark Angel to 181, equalling the best ever annual total flat wins in GB by Kodiac in 2018. Dubawi and Kodiac tied for second this year on 155.

Six days is of course not enough to draw any conclusions but for a sire that stood until recently in Australia and now in Germany, Helmet is compiling an impressive record. 62 GB wins last year put him just in the top 20 in terms of number of GB flat wins and after one more this evening, he now stands on 4 for 2022. Thunder Snow is his highest rated offspring but, as a son of Exceed and Excel, he might move up the GB table if enough of his progeny get to race here.

helmet sales statistics all regions 72/66/71/55/54/19/15 last two years not so popular with the breeders, that's a big negative going forward, as you say done
well last year, just avoid the 2yo's last three seasons 84-13-14

Dark Angel is starting at a fast pace to beat his 2021 record with 11 GB wins so far.

another big price winner for helmet 16/1 3yo winning at 5th attempt, didn't do the kempton cards, got my biggest win ever 2.5k 4 fold obsidian knight /base note/fancy man/l'homme presse, backed goshen for 50 in multiples, bets lost after first few races, so waited than put on the 100 4 fold, goshen was well handicapped 12lbs lower than best rating

good double last night for sea the stars, decent prices too, chinwag and mick maestro won me a few pounds wasn't around for AW meeting, knew zeeband was running

another good winner for helmet at 9/2,was a low key race, followed up its win LTO, should of backed it won 2600 on legende d'art and enfranchise 200 double

nice jumps treble goshen - melon - faki d'oudairies 100 win treble  825, great to see goshen fight all way to winning line, missed two good winners on AW, you know which ones