Sorry if this has been covered before but I'm interested in why a breeder would use a new and unproven sire to cover a mare?

Obviously there are bloodline compatability issues which may be solved by using a new stallion.

Price?  Seems to be not a massive amount of value out there?

Availability?  I guess we'd all like to be able to afford a cover by Galileo/Dubawi but its not just the covering fee, its having the mare too...

Apologies for being a simpleton, but it seems a bit like buying a vintage of Bordeaux wine En primeur at a price, hoping to get a good score off Mr Parker when he reviews it?

I'd love to truehoncho-but I would only be window shopping!

Absolutely Formtwist, but I'm a sensible sort of chap and I'd like to see a few years solid results either on the racetrack or at the sales before I shell out that fee......

I'm presuming that Frankel was very popular more for the fact he had a stellar race record and a good page rather than because he was the new kid on the block?

Actually, BBC you are indeed such a sensible sort of chap that you have enjoyed to the full an Elite life at the top table of racing and breeding without much financial risk. Just for fun pretend you are in the position of owning one mare to breed from - say a 75 rated winning mare just retired from racing with form at 5f - 7f over four years on track and worth roughly £15,000. Assume no pedigree inhibitions regarding mating, which stallions would you use for this first year and what financial result would you envisage, colt or filly? Sort of virtual breeding?

OK Formtwist-here we go.  May I apologise in advance for my amateurish ramblings you are about to subject yourselves to!

Giving I am paying the nomination myself, I decided that I was going to pick a stallion from GB (less transport costs) and for £10K or under.  As I will be selling the progeny I decided I'd like the best chance of getting the 'Biggest Bang For My Buck' and so have come up with the following stallions:

HELMET-seems great value-seems very commercial-has a G1 winner already-median price for both colts and fillies seems that I'd have a chance of making a profit.
EQUIANO-much as the above-lots of group horses-decent medians for both sexes-plenty of speed

MEDICEAN-lots of group horses-decent medians for both sexes-genuine chance to make some money-more stoutly bred but gets good 2 yo as well-sire of sires too.  I was shocked at his fee to be honest-seems good value-I'm obviously missing something!

MOUNT NELSON-he would be 4th choice-seems good value-gets staying 2yo's who seem to progress with age. Medians for both sexes look pretty decent so I may make a quid or two.

So kind of a mixture of sexy and not so sexy stallions there-I guess some stallions are hot and some are not but unless you have a mare and can afford the fee that can get in to a top stallion (my 75 rated mare wouldn't get a look in at the top boys)then these are not bad options.

I did consider several other stallions but was put off by lots of things like unproven stud records/poor medians for colts and especially fillies and record of progeny at the track.  I did look at some stallions who have had no progeny hit the track and just couldn't bring myself to do it.......

Standing by for incoming-tin hat firmly on

Nice start there BBC, you have definitely got to grips with the issues. Helmet and Equiano, yes indeed though fees for a £15,000 mare may be a tad high, theory goes for a fee at about a third of value but marketability these days does tend to increase that proportion. Medicean perceived as a sire of fillies as well as a bit long in the tooth, and I think has had some fertility issues (apologies Cheveley if that is wrong) More an owner-breeder type these days. Mount Nelson has hoofed it to Ireland so cross off the list. Hope you are enjoying this!

Thanks Formtwist-I will look a bit lower down the scale for my 15K mare then.

I'll keep it to 5k and below for the covering fee and see what I come up with....

That fee has potential surely. Anyone clapped eyes on him? Is he pig awful?

Another thing in CITYSCAPE's favour is the deal they are offering on his fee if your yearling sells poorly.

Fair play truehoncho-the safe play here would be Fast Company I think-proven sire and decent record.  And a reasonable chance that I could get more than £0 for my efforts....

That a boo from me about Fast Company Formtwist.  Hey Ho. everything I seem to mention ends up over the Irish Sea (I see Champs Elysees is going too.)

FOY-well his mum had dodgy legs IIRC-didn't stop her from being pretty quick/good though.  I guess everyone wants correct foals/yearlings however....

I have to say, I do appreciate a little more what you all have to do for real, with real money, and with your futures depending on it in many cases.  Its scary to think that even if you seem to do it all right, this is not an exact science.

Just so you are aware, the most successful mating in the history of the Elite Racing Club, (Sending the mare Kalinka to Marju resulting in Soviet Song) was initiated for no other reason than the gentleman who organised it had another client who used Marju, and he seemed to be a decent, solid, winning getting sire.....so a fair degree of luck really....

Good luck to you all for  your 2017 coverings...

BBC

I'm using Adaay. There I said it. No pedigree but what the hell.

I thought not much happening so I'd pop my head above the parapet.

Maybe next year for me.

I'll happily admit to barking and being a curmudgeonly old dog averse to new tricks. Personally, I'd quite understand your not signing on that dotted line knowing I'm in that very long list of Adaay users! For me though I have observed that annually you get hearty congratulations on prolific sales of foals and, though I'd never be swayed by anyone's opinions from following my own, I am thus modestly encouraged that we have headed at least one mare each in the same direction. You will of course get a perfect colt that will take Tatts 2018 by storm and I will get a fault-ridden filly..

As you infer FT., it's the nice colt v ordinary filly equation hat has all the bearing here.

I thought that Adaay could do likeable when I saw him. Whether he can do us colt is quite another matter.

I like Mehmas too Wily but like you I have not had to examine my conscience as to whether I would use a 2yo retiree.

I was horrified at the size of Gutaifan's first book and as the connections are so implicit I don't see the likelihood of very much different this time around either.

How much is a return ticket to Czech?

Toormore's been pulled.  Home of the Brave or Hawkbill would be nice if they are taking suggestions.

Dont know reason but isnt going to cover.

Yes not enough clubbers, some poor decision-making from Darley - how unlike them.   Ever sent mare to France, I'm taken by Exosphere and the 'my' family has a Lohnro winner? Complicated?

good call yer ma, heard confirmation today that Toormore's tapped out. Careful not to wish for Home of The Brave though, he's built like a hungry whippet!

anyone got a particularly nice foal yet?