Matings 2014 OUTSIDE the Box

Is Major Cadeaux any sort of a runner for less than 2k?

A list of horses I'm quite prepared to be set right about.

Lilbourne Lad - quite nice pages of Tatts foals, if they look ok then..
Lord Shanakil - solid enough yearling sales, good range of buyers & interesting potential as sire
Showcasing - would only need a few good ones next year to make this work (assuming no stupid price rise on bk of decent sales)
Equiano - the next Dark Angel / Dutch Art..?
Sir Percy - building solid rep but probably too busy / price rise
Approve - sold well enough and breezers liked so precocity likely, could do a 'dandy man'
Footstepsinthesand - sales seems to be starting to recognise consistent quality but only at right price.

Sudirman is the 2yo to retire (wont stay, pure 2yo - famous last words), at 6k Euro thank you very much.

Yer Ma

I like Showcasing a lot and intend to use him this year but only at £3k. Any idea that he is worth more than that let alone the current £4.5k is lunacy. The thought that there may be a price rise bemuses me. He may well get plenty of winners next year, he may also do a Bushranger.

Getting good 2yo winners is getting harder as there are a lot of established 2yo sires now like Kheleyf, Kodiac etc that provide hefty competition for first seasoners. Please everybody if you can't get a good discount of the advertised price for Showcasing don't use him. Point out that they had a champion first seasoner in Sakhees Secret and he's not exactly hot stuff now!

sir p med/av of 30gns  on 6k noms, is this too low? seemed to be going ok to me

johnyrotten, never read your reply before I jumped in. Sorry to duplicate your observations.

Maybe we should call this thread selling in 2015 / 2016 as it helps us to try and focus on what is going to be popular then rather than what is popular now.

I like Sir Percy and also for that matter Sixties Icon at the moment but think both will be National Hunt sires in a couple of year time.  Kodiac will continue to churn out 2yo winners but with largish crops coming you are going to struggle to stand out from the crowd.

I don’t think Big Bab Bob is a bad shout at all.  By the time you come to sell he should be starting to motor.

Kendargent is a little iffy in my opinion. Unless you are going to jump through all the various hoops so the offspring qualifies for the various premiums and you sell in France I’m not sure using any French stallion is a goer (excluding Redoubte’s Choice).

Anyway here's my attempt at being Mystic Meg:

Monsieur Bond – gone quiet but has some bigger crops in the pipeline

Camacho / Showcasing – if you’ve used either of these, the latter would make a nice follow-on mating with any upcoming success by either boosting the latter.

Approve – has the pedigree to make it, his Dam has bred a listed winner but will be 4th season so very risky. Boom or Bust.

Born to Sea – cracking pedigree(obviously), sell as a foal.

Choisir – should have some nice ones in the pipeline after Starspangledbanner (did he stand in Europe in 2012 though?), consistently turns out the odd good one.  Olympic Glory’s success may mean a fee increase though.

for that matter what about intense focus? I thought he had done quite well this year with a bit of a classic prospect to boot.

Yes I'd agree with you Lord Shanakil is worth a look,he does get good sorts and that's always half the battle as we all know esp' at this end of things.Monsieur Bond again,plenty going for him next year stock sold well gets good sorts and Kodiac too. As for Champs Elysees........commercial

I see Cheveley Park Stud are selling a colt foal by Showcasing at Tatts. Didnt realise they used stallions like that.

Have we discussed Cityscape yet? I always thought there might be a place for a son of Selkirk, not sure yet whether he's it though. Talented horse but I get the feeling he could produce some funny looking foals.

is parish hall staying in training?

Truehonch. I write my stallion 'long list' every year on a piece of card that then gets put in a bull dog clip with all the previous years. The early years influence the current one and it's my place to start every season.
Crisis point though has been reached! All my worldly goods are in boxes in stables and I have mislaid the trusty bulldog!
What's a boy to do? Am I going to be able to cover any of my mares at all?

So no, Mastercraftsman is not duly noted, but I agree he is worthy of close inspection.

Does anyone have personal commercial experience of him? Is it easy to breed a nice one ( because In my eyes HE isn't a nice one) I would imagine that he should be nailed on as a training on type.

I imagine they might get a bit starry with his fee too.

Well, if he gets his going, Mastercraftsman may well get a classic winner in his first crop.

I’ve been giving this thread a bit more thought and have come up with another one for the list – Roderic O’Connor

2nd in a Dewhurst as a 2yo, bred on the Galileo/Danehill mare as per Frankel, Teofilo, Intello etc etc, Dam had bred a couple of others with ability, you’d be using him 3rd season (deals to be done) so he’ll have two crops racing if you sell as a yearling so every chance of them succeeding (or failing miserably) another one for the boom or bust category.

What about Mount Nelson? unchanged at £6k. Is this too far out of the box?

Can't take Mount Nelson I'm afraid truehonch. Intense Focus has something to recommend him but he's a bit of a crystal baller I think.

TAMAYUZ. Now that fee reduction has caught my eye.

I'm not sure a stallion on the way down is the way ahead. However I am not sure this is a stallion on the way down!

Any thoughts on him out there?

I don't see Tamayuz doing any better than his sire who had a good start but is for some reason not that sought after. I see T going the same way.

I think the reason that there is so little positive consensus is that there is very little value being offered (I just read that sentence and realise I have stated the bloody obvious!).

Sires like Sir Percy, Aussie Rules, Showcasing and others should be 25-30% cheaper than advertised. There is probably plenty of movement in these prices otherwise it will probably be better to pinhook than breed at the cheaper end. You can understand it with the bigger operations that can support their stallions with their hoards of broodmares but others should be more competitive.

I get what you're saying truehoncho, but my feelings are that I would rather risk paying perhaps around 1k too much on those stallions you mention than perhaps 5k too much on the likes of Tamayuz etc. As you say, there is probably some movement in the prices anyway.

interesting point about balancing it against pinhooking a foal, was thinking about pinhooking a filly this year as I reckon the market for colts will be too hot for my pocket.

PotM

in his first season Nayef got 7 2yo winners and 6 in his second. Tamayuz got 8 and 7 respectively.
After that Nayef dropped off, but I don't think there is a world of difference. You could argue that T 2yo's are a bit better but I think a lot of that is due to the type of mares he gets.

I hope this isn't coming across as a T bashing it's not. I have always quite liked N and thought if he got more chances he could do better, as a lot of others could.