Ascot Dec' sales UK

2yo winner by Invincible Spirit is the only real marketing tool for her I think sadly.

She doesn't miss by too far as a cheapie but I can see that Ascot is probably her venue.

Poor old Culture Vulture, I remember liking her well enough, but all she had was the fairly poisonous Lammtarra to help keep her memories alive.

It's a page with no flat black type until the 4th dam (excluding C V) when you come to sell, so it's not for me, but if you could produce a beautiful foal and hang it on Invincible Spirit 2yo winner then maybe someone should give it a shot

Remember backing her second time out when she ran bad,she was badly place by her trainer imo but giving him the benefit of the doubt Im presuming with the gaps she had her problems, she should have had at least another 1 to her name, a nicely bred filly.
BTW Jaber Abullah aint done half bad out of Goresbridge

I quite like lot 55.

PP, Sure you've noticed already but lot 55 runs in the seller at Wolverhampton today

I see that the 2 y'old winning filly by Invincible Spirit lot 72 made 800gns.........at the money I'd say she was a bargain,lot 55 withdrawn and one for Littleun2 Pint Size 2k not sure but looks like he's heading off somewhere warm.

800 Guineas, jesus that is astonishing, haven't looked but she must have been very deficient in some way in the looks or conformation department because surely she must have a bit of pedigree if her dam went to IC, i've a bit of land, but no money, knowledge  and little time but I still find myself thinking she could have been a bit of fun

Well well look who I've seen in Goff's Feb sale lot 490 the one and only Child Bride the very same Invincible Spirit filly who was sold for just 800gns at the last Ascot sale,I will be very interested to see what she makes this time around at a 'respectable' sale.

Fascinating!

A very nice return yesterday 13.5k unsold in the ring later I understand sold outside for very close to the figure achieved 'inside'.Glad to see some people back their own judgements by looking beyond the end of their nose's.A bit of shrewd pinhooking there,personally she looked a nice filly.At times in this industry you need a bit of courage and foresight to make it work the right way........lot 490 is a prime example!

im still in shock at 800 quid, nicely done by yesterdays seller

Well done to connections indeed. Having the doodahs to bid her up to those levels when it was there for all to see what she had made at Ascot was notable. I Definitely think that she wouldn't look too pretty in Tattersalls format but if she's capable of a commercial foal, her 2yo win and Invincible Spirit may take her far enough. I saw her from a distance briefly but she looked okay and well.

Trade yesterday was hot mind. The usual tale when the obvious was scarce and obvious to all. I wanted a nice strong filly late on even though she had 2 derby winners close up which I thought would put plenty off, it didn't. Plenty seemed to be more popular than they had been in earlier sales.

Ballz, that markup is nearly a bloody years wages to me at the moment, knew I should have stepped in, I actually own a horsebox and everything, just that its more used to having cattle in it.

Trade was as you say hot,Bushranger mania still holding up well.That filly Pot M the one you were on for,if its who I'm thinking of you should of gone a bit more.

I appreciate times are bad for everyone but if circumstances are suitable is it not an idea for 2/3 people to get together and have a pop in a similar situation to whats being discussed ref the Ascot/Goffs situation.Someone can have the knowledge/ground etc but not the finance.This is when another person coming in could hopefully make things happen,just a thought

Well you know how it is Prima, people advise you how you should have bought this/upped your limit for that, but how can you ever really know their motives

Do they really think it's value, or does it turn out they had a connection - however loose ofcourse. . .

Anyway, fact is I didn't have the b@lls to buy anything - again. I've had so many reversals recently that my confidence is still a bit battered and having turned things around a fraction I'm not too keen to go back to disasterville again. Hopefully one day I'll rediscover a balance

midas7 we've all enjoyed discussing Lot 490. If you can lay your hands on the next star I'll finance the 800quid. Go to it!

Yes I too know how it is Pot M,when in doubt do nowt as the old saying goes,being in business I've always trusted my own judgement its always the best,you made the right descion buy in haste repent at leisure.

what about 101 in the next ascot sale?

If its not too far to go to see her then yes she could be worth a punt,2y'old winner out of GR1 placed mare.As I said with the opening post these sales are easy dismiss without really looking.The whole industry is fuelled mostly by rumour you can fall into thinking if she's in that sale she's there for a reason as if she was any good she'd be in a 'proper' sale.People then perhaps think shrewder operators than themselves think she's not worth a light.The fact is sometimes owners either cant afford to go on so want out at the next available sale as happened with the Invincible Spirit filly who found her way to 'cheap' Ascot only to be judged fairly by the industry and then attain her real value!
If lot 101 is a nice sort then why not?She's got a US page,pages like hers don't truly excite me as much as others but I'd not dismiss her maybe without at least a look.what do you think of lot 14?By Pivotal who I think has a future as a good BM sire from a classy fast pedigree,I'd like to see a win soon and no two ways she's pretty weak through the 1st dam but the 2nd dam's good enough certainly for a cheapie.

Hi PD,

i like 101's page, plenty of 2yo winners. not sure why she wasn't sold for £16k at Tatts. I also thought lot 35 may be worth a chnce if she looks good, but she is a windsucker which puts me off. i like US families, i think they go well with Danzig line stallions. They are ideal for value sons of Danehill Dancer and Oasis Dream etc. In fact lot 14's 3rd dam in US bred.

I am intending to go and will look at all three.

Yes 101 page has enough early winners there to make a case and your right about Danzig line stallions.Just as an example my daughter picked up a mare out of training there a few years ago one who had made 14k at the HIT Tatt's sale before her Ascot entry,she is from about one of the best current family's going also she is a multiple sprint winner.She snapped her up for nothing.They now have her first yearling by one of the hottest stallions going and is in foal to another red hot sire.I am in no doubt her shrewdness in having the nowse to go to such a 'cheap' sale will pay them back well this autumn.So good luck next week I hope you achieve a similar result to both lot 490 at Goffs and my daughter!With Hooray right there in lot 14's 2nd dam you could use Zebedee..........just a thought.

And for the NH breeder I would suggest Lot 102,cracking staying chaser line,remember Dalkey Sound well grey mare owned by Geoff Brown for many years Chairman and top honcho with St Johnstone (owner/breeder Silver By Nature)would'nt surprise me if he bought this lass.

i've been following this post all last week hoping tomorrows sale had slipped under the radar!

Lot 101 and at a push 35 (windsucker/crib-biter more unattractive than race record) for nothing are very much at my end of the scale. It will  be interesting to see what the vendors of lot 101 do tomorrow after seeing it unsold at 18k 10 weeks ago .. perhaps they've got too many tesco shares and need to sell but its going to be an eye waterer unless they play silly buggers and try to run it up again

My worry with both of these are fertility issues where current vendors are cutting losses after early problems with maidens but everything has its price

Hi Truehoncho,

I  noticed in the Brightwells website lots 14 and 15 have scanned in foal to Piccolo, I assume thats a wee bonus for a potential buyer,good luck with whatever you decide, the one I liked 102 is withdrawn!!

Good luck next week I said truehoncho,Sorry its tomorrow I don't even know what day of the week it is!Lot 14's 2nd dam  has a High Chapparral 2 y'old colt who made 30k as a yearling and is now in foal to Dark Angel.The mare herself made 22k as an unraced 3y'old at Tatt's July sale.Let us know how you get on.

Lot 101 was nowhere to be seen before the sale and although eventually "sold" it was not there to sell - bit of a wasted day

do you know why SD?

she squeaked into my budget but without seeing her it was a no goer. i liked 35 now wish i'd bid on her.

PD 14 withdrawn

Searched all over for 101 and assumed was withdrawn so it looks it was all a bit of a sham to change ownership with it effectively being a vendor buyback (filly goes and comes back on same lorry to same barn). £7k prob about right - not expensive but then again its not a steal

Could nt quite convince myself at anything above a grand for lot35. Again 2k is neither expensive or particularly a bargain. I costed it up based on Kheleyf or Vale of York cover, vets, keep  and purchase as about 11k to Dec Mares for my set up and was not confident that it would make that or much more and was happy to let someone else have a go

I see that today truehoncho,what a bloody pain.A couple of years ago I sent someone there to get a Danzero filly who had a decent page and I felt sure she could be got for stone nothing,only to find she was withdrawn at the last minute within an hour of the sale.It would of been a nice prospect as within a couple of weeks her close relation Lahaleeb won the EP Taylor stakes that's the sort of update we all could do with.What stopped you on 35 if you liked her?

i only had room for 1 and at the time held out for 101. did teh same thing a year ago at doncaster and missed a nice filly. oh well, maybe there will be something in the july sale.

i liked 101 because her page looked racey and if you got a nice colt by a showcasing or a MonBond (which would suit her), you could reasonably expect to get all your investment back and maybe a little profit with the first foal.

i only had room for 1 and at the time held out for 101. did teh same thing a year ago at doncaster and missed a nice filly. oh well, maybe there will be something in the july sale.

i liked 101 because her page looked racey and if you got a nice colt by a showcasing or a MonBond (which would suit her), you could reasonably expect to get all your investment back and maybe a little profit with the first foal.

truehoncho,Take a look at lot 63 of the next Ascot sale due April 23rd.This filly looks just the sort you may want,plenty to like about the page and the dam has a 2 y'old gelding who made 180k to the HK jockey club last year by Oasis Dream along with a Mastercraftsman yearling colt.She is most likely typical of Zamindar on the big side but with the page working well with Oasis Dream a great looking sire like Approve might suit her.See what you think.

thanks PD, will take a look.

She certainly would fit the bill PD. As you say, she looks very suitable for sons of OD and maybe Green Desert. I really like Dubawi (who doesn't?) and as she was bought by H Cecil for good money as a yearling she must look ok too. I will let you know how I get on with my limited budget. Thanks again.

Truehoncho how do you know she was bought by as a yearling? I dont see that info on the racing post site. What about lot 105 if she was cheap or is box walking too much of a turn off. I'm not buying by the way just curious

Ovalu, i realised shortly after I posted that it was her sister sold as a yearling. I suppose someone had to notice my utter incompetence. Other than that, she still looks a nice prospect.

Not really qualified to answer your other point, maybe one of the more experienced posters could help.

I am now going to check every other post I've made for daft comments!!

On paper Lot 105 would be my pick however she does smack of a horse with a lot of question marks that require a full investigation. I hate box walkers but there are many degrees so I would want to be sure it was liveable with.

I imagine that for me the Zamindar is too big. Plenty of potential pedigree updates, but you have to start with a mare that can do the job. All the updates in the world don't change that but they would help a resale for her if you are a mare trader.

If you can get to the sale these types are definitely worthy of a closer look though.

While everyone has focused on the 300K paid for the Exceed & Excel / Wunders Dream at Doncaster they have missed the big news that at Ascot lot 63 was withdrawn and lot 105 made 1,500.00!

To be honest I wouldn't want a box walker, but 1.5k was cheap. a shame 63 was withdrawn though. Next possible targets for me are 18 and 22 at next Tatts sale. Any comments?

I reckon that Prima Donna Towers has just taken delivery of a privately purchased Zamindar mare - you've been blown out of the water truehoncho!

I can't make my mind up about 18 and 22 but I think I would perhaps have 'placed at 2' slightly higher than 'unraced out of unraced' even though it's a better page. It's a real stayers page too. But I am sure if you look at them both there will be no doubt as which shineds brightest.

I love the Wunders Dream colt described as slack pasterned and with issues in front. I'm good at breeding those - where's my 300k lads? !

Prima Donna Towers already has a very nice winning Zamidar mare with a red hot page who has a week old colt foal at foot by a very commercial stallion.And what's more the foal is the spitting image of his father.....always a good sign.I also have a nice filly by him in training in France who looks like she could be good,I'm hopeful.
Pity the Dubawi mare was pulled from the sale even with her size she looked commercial personally I liked her more on paper than lot 105.

Just got back from Donny where I went to look at 221. It's a long way to go for one lot, but it was almost worth it!
She was a bit ordinary but no real problems and I am wondering if she is one that got away. . .
I hope no one on here got her ( via BBA(Ire) )

What I measn is, that you are enemy no.1 for outbidding me if so

Bad luck PotM. I liked her page, at least you got bid on her. It's not a bad sale to get a cheap one from as you have just enough time to get them covered. Unfortunatley there is never that many available and you have to be a bit lucky. I got one from there last year and got her in foal to Mon Bond. She came out of Mark Johnson's and has grown and looks much better than on the day I bought her.

There are not many sales about now, I suppose it will have to be Tatta July now if you want a foal next year.

that should be Tatts July sale!!!

You've intrigued me PotM - do you know something about that one thats not on the page?  I'm struggling to see the angle - particularly given our other discussion about your priorities when trying to buy... the Love Academy bit and Medicean fillies in general I get but even if you dont rate Given, the filly isnt any good. 4yo was moderate, exciting siblings Donny not bothered to put on page?

^^^I agree!

Bits and Bobs yer ma, nothing hugely exciting perhaps. Oh lawks now P D is out to get me too - am I going to be drummed out of the playground?

In my defence! The filly has run again since the catalogue, is sound and hopefully should improve - I reckoned to run her on and hunt for a win but it would need to be a trip admittedly. Quite strongly made she could have got a sharper looking foal than perhaps she deserved to. There is also a 250k Dubawi 2yo to run this year, but with the magically offputting J. Ferguson listed as purchaser!

I'm not sure I have posted too many reasons in the past why such a mare would be undesirable.
Sure I'd rather it wasn't a German page but at least it is one of very the best ones. Medicean, Acetenango, Shirley Heights and a good 2yo for a 3 parts sister. And very very most importantly the potential to get a good looking foal as she was all Medicean not at all German. I think a page like that is more likely to hit that particular goal than a sharper but lesser one.
Incedentally I wasn't the only one as she was the most popular horse there I reckon!!

Not being critical PotM, just asking.  I agree the 6k suggests a few like minds.  The Dubawi is interesting and clearly you've physically seen what you like. I just thought you'd want someone else to be sticking something inside it for a few thousand more and at least you can hit the ground running.  Be aghast if nothing as desireable in July at the 10-12k mark. Least you dont have to worry about all the costs before you get a sniff of seeing a payoff (esp. if you felt you needed to race on).  We've one who we will 'have' to race and I'm not looking forward to the expense (and she's german bred thru and thru!)

You are quite right yer ma that I would be better spending 10 or 12 on something in foal. If I can find that in july then I will be delighted. Finding something you like though - well you sort have got to strike when the object is right don't you, I'm not sure that holding out for the right wrapping is ever very successful. I'll be at July but I don't hold your confidence that the tif's will be that desirable. Fillies maybe.

Having raced a couple of fillies in the last few years I can only offer my condolences to you! Make sure you really want to do it before you commit. I think that you need to really feel the protagonist has the scope to be a stakes performer because I don't think 15 - 20k a season is justified by a simple win I'm afraid. I was partially lucky with my experience but it taught me to be very wary before I try again.

I want to work towards the time when if the market won't wear them then I shan't try to either.

test

Well a local trainer commented that she looked the type to win a bumper...eyebrows were raised.  Silly money lots aside, its a mixed start to the sales year so I reckon July might be ok for mares by or in foal to some quieter stallions.

I'm assuming you valued the mare at something less than 5k. I think this was value if you liked her, I'm not sure quite what you would get that would be much better at that price. I really couldn't justify the cost of putting her in training, in fact I think its financial madness. Her dam is a half sister to a champion 2yo in germany who was by Medicean, and she is fronm the family of Lando. Surely you would just put her in foal to a value stallion and get an April foal next year to get some of you money back and work from there. Buying in-foal mares in July is all well and good, but the ones any good are not cheap and there is plenty of time for them to lose the foal (it happened to me), and you are left with sweet FA.

If you are buying in this bracket, you are always going to have to hope the page gets better or that she throws really nice colt foals that get you your cash back.

yer ma. She did look the type that could win a bumper, the main thing is that she didn't look like the type that could win a steeplechase!! They are the ones to avoid inmyopinion

My new best friend truehoncho (this has nothing atall remotely to do with the fact that he agrees with me and that the rest of you Know nothings can go and visit www.takeajump.com ) I think you speak wisely on the matter but it is quite late and she is only a 3yo so in a funny sort of way the money and the potential heartache involved in trying to cover is perhaps equal to sending her into training for a month. - ok so not financially but certainly stress wise. I think that with something that is sound and racing you only have to throw a couple of months training at them to find out your fate, and a Medicean german IS going to improve.

5k for all that black type and a likeable individual? I'll go to any sale you guys recommend if you can guarantee that is available!

Slippy Blue, it works - so get posting

ok, I take back the madness bit if its only a month or two's training, but I would still get her straight in foal. I suppose it's just a matter of opinion but if you got a nice foal next year you could have a yearling for sale just after the Dubawi wins the Dewhurst!!

A couple of years ago at Doncaster I was talked out of buying Bronterre's half sister, oh well!

Juddmonte always sell mares and fillies with similar profiles to this one and no one flinches when they fetch daft money.

I too went to Doncaster for lot 221 but went for more than my budget.  The other mare I looked at was the Marju mare retired injuryed but weakish first dam and nothing to run put me off.  Ill be looking at May sale for another potential bargian.

Looks like we might lock horns this season Littleun2. Good job we've got similar limited budgets!

I looked at the Marju mare too. I was very aware that for a 6yo she really wasn't very impressive. I don't like that page I think it's a massive under achiever too.

I don't get too hung up about looking for things to run. Fact is most horses are pretty untalented and I don't like paying a premium for something that probably won't happen.
My absolute priority is to come home with something I can bear to look at over the fence and muck out all winter!

^^I know the feeling......but I'll skip the mucking out bit!

Did you look at Basahma the Darley offering?  I was surprised she made that money, what did you think?

Shame it looks like Marjie going abroad, vested interest albeit an underachieving one.

Use it or Lose it Prima'. . .

I am sure they would let you muck out one of the clean ones to keep your eye in and the blood pumping!

I saw Bashama in the parade ring. A real scruffy lightweight number wasn't she. Her quarter sheet was more like a New Zealand rug on her tiddly frame!

I'm sure the lads would indeed let me muck out a box,I'll have you know I have mucked a box out.......well once and that was years ago.But one thing I do remember is the lads at the time thought my effort was very funny to watch and all told me to "stick to the day job"......I've never regretted taking their advice!

Did 274 catch anyones eye, related to some decent horses / 2yo winners. Unraced from Darley doesnt bode well right enough...

Prima. Worry not it's all sorted.

I've been working out how to improve your core skills - mucking out, cleaning brass, washing tails etc etc. SO, it's been decided you shall come over here as a working student so you can ultimately be of more use if and when you get back home. There's a little caravan waiting for you in the yard and it'll be like home from home once you've removed the Rat poison and disinfectant stored there now. The Privy is less than 100 metres away and you can get hot water from there too.

Luckily I have found a gracious benefactor who will sponser your education and although they are actively involved in training future stud staff in the home land, they were particularly keen on you  taking a foreign placement.
So generous has she been - using terms like 'How much do you want?' and 'I don't care what it takes' that you are signed up for a 5 year placement and she has then taken an option to extend the contract if necessary.

I think your toothbrush is already packed . . .

Sorry Somerset Sam, my eye was not caught!

That sounds fantastic!A real job at last.....when can I start?That little caravan sure does sound cosy,as you say its home from homedo you know I've always wanted to improve my core skills.......funny thing is mucking out washing tails and cleaning brass has never factored much in my plans....can you believe it!What ever have I missed?

Even with the HIT sales and Dec Mare sales at Tatts and the Goffs Nov sales on the horizon don't forget my advice to look at what Brightwells has to offer. Child Bride went from 800gns to 13,000 in a matter of weeks and there is another potentially interesting mare in the current catalogue. Have a look at Lot 29. I'm not saying that she will provide such a quick return as Child Bride, but I do think there is a margin in her. I think if she were mine she would be heading to Whitsbury in the New Year to their older chestnut horse. See what you think. Poss one for Truehoncho?

Im off to Newmarket HIT tomorrow, anyone got anything interesting to llok at. Out of a thousand odd horses im sure 1 or 2 have slipped through the neT!

Lot 29 must be worth a look for someone. I am overstocked with flotsam unfortunately so I am trying to steer clear as punishment for not deciding how best to 'recycle' what's already here!

My issue with lot 29 is the amount she's raced. She has raced 76 times.

My late mare (4 winners from 6 runners) has a full sister who raced 72 times and won 4 listed races.  She visited among others, Grand Lodge, Bohemian Bounty, Barathea & Royal Applause and has not bred a single winner.

Therefore from my own personal experience she wouldn't be for me despite being by Night Shift and having good 2yo form.

Is someone wanted to buy her, stick her in foal (if you can get her in foal) and then flog her then I agree there is a margin in there for that person but I'm not sure for anyone else down the line.

PD you know me better than I do!!

I have been to Tatts but the one's I like went for too much. I quite fancy 112 at Doncaster, any thoughts?

I like 29 very much. I agree with PP concerns but his should be reflected in the price and I think there is no reason wht she couldn't get a good one. She wasn't expensive as a yearling but out of a Green Desert mare and at one point rated in the 90's and beat that stallion prospect Sayif.

In honesty I have been trying to get somethiing a bit better and may wait until December. I have a Kheleyf foal going through Tatts and if he does ok I will put that towards a nice filly.

My guess is that Binty won't be a great looker truehoncho but she would be a great cheapy perhaps.

I would certainly keep your nose to the grindstone at the lesser sales, as I think Tatts Dec can be a truely horrible sale to attempt to find any value at. I can't remember the last time I had any luck there.

I too would take the race record of Ascot 29. I believe it to be a largely anecdotal myth about tough racemares. There is a chance their hormones might be a bit shot for a while but no scientific proof that Ovaries/uterous can be actually damaged by a racing career.

Truehoncho,for me lot 112's only real appeal is firstly her sire and then the fact her dam has a yearling colt by Invincible Spirit and a colt foal by Fastnet Rock.They might help but they'd need too the help anything in the future along,take them out and what have you left?............not much really.The page can look deceivingly attractive now but it could go cold very quickly.

The fact White Shift ran so many times would not put me off at all,if nothing else it shows how tough and sound she is.I have a mare here who herself ran close to 40 times winning only a couple of low grade races,she has class in her  3rd dam.When I retired her and sent her off to stud she was covererd only once and went straight in-foal,the resulting colt won a GR race.Lot 29 is one I'd not be so quick to overlook,Pot M's point above is correct imo!

I am not really put off much by the number of races she's had. The truth is without this I wouldn't be able to afford her. The point is that on a limited budget I have the problem that if I don't go for 112 at Donny I may well be outbid at Ascot and left with neither. This has happened to me once or twice before.

I take your point about 112 PD but I do think he dam has 2 with a good chance to follow.  I think if she looks OK she should be one I should look at.
I have tried to upload a photo of my Kheleyf foal. Hope you like him, this is the best I could get him to stand. He'd only just been weaned.

He looks a good sort truehoncho,I like him.he's got plenty of bone and has scope a good colour yes a nice foal.I always thought you are a man I see that's not the case.Nice weather you have.Get an agent to bid for you if you take the commercial view with White Shift,personally of your two choices I'd rather a trip to Ascot then on to Compton Place.

PD thats the help so dont start sending me love letters!!

And there was me thinking of raising my kilt to ye!

truehoncho, there you go again with your metaphorical bragging - the ability to use a camera, put it on your computer AND get it on this website!

If that foal is reasonably correct and does more than shuffle I reckon that there's a new filly/mare in him! Good luck!

I would like to be wise before and not the wise man after.
So here's my input for whats it worth!

Lot 29 is a no go..Top race G3 f [last] as a 2yo.
6 months later sold for 12k as a 3yo after winning c6 1k seller at bath.
2 more years of running in c6 1k level. black type none.

Est value 2k [not that I wouldn't pay anymore than £800 for her].

Yes the mating with C.P would be ideal,but that would mean 2k for her 6.5k for the mating plus costs,all for a mare in foal for the sales!No change out of 10k+

P.S Great looking Kheleyf foal Truehoncho.Is there a lot no for him at Tatts?

HiFolks,

I see White Shift -Lot 29 was bought back by the vendor for £4,300, do we assume that someone has marked their card that they maybe?? sitting on a wee goldmine acording to the B&B forumites ??, or just being a tad greedy for more,seemed fair price to me !!

Suprised they put her in the sale if they weren't going to let her go for 4k. She was said to be very small.

he wanted 8k for her

Blimey - she would have been value at £2.5k but no more...