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Slick'N'Smooth
10 Dec 08 16:48
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Date Joined: 08 Dec 08
| Topic/replies: 167 | Blogger: Slick'N'Smooth's blog
I would be interested to hear peoples opinions on this horse. I did ask on my other topic but we got a bit sidetracked!
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Report push February 28, 2010 9:26 PM GMT
Oh yes i think the jockey OP is great too.
Report Slick'N'Smooth February 28, 2010 9:47 PM GMT
The point I was making re DD was not completely a literal point, more of an illustration of how a mainstream and fashionable set of connections/sire can make a difference to the percieved chance of that horse and how it's form is interepted.

I would put the Newmarket run down to the useless jockey rather than any fault of the horse. O.P really needs to be on board for a serious chance on May1st.

I think Pat Eddery and HOF connections should be given credit where it is due by heading for HQ and not going to a gns abroad. Fair play to them. They have every right to go to the race feeling they have a good shot and not be scared off by the supposed chances of the 'Ballydoyle Bluebloods'. Had Firebreak himself been by Green Desert or Oasis Dream, I don't think your comment would have come up Push. Firebreak was a better racehorse in the true sense of the word than Footsteps, who progressed so well from 2 to 3 to breaking down. FB ran on all surfaces over several seasons and held his form admirably, why would his son NOT train on?
Report Slick'N'Smooth February 28, 2010 9:55 PM GMT
As for HOF, his best form is on softer ground, he has improved with every race

That may be true, but he was also stepping up in distance, so perhaps that had more of a bearing? He had already won on GF and was 5/22 at Royal Ascot on GF. His 2nd in L was Gd, so not convinced that he needs soft. Perhaps he may even be better on Gd/GF over the correct trip?
Report push March 1, 2010 5:57 AM GMT
Yes you are right that it may be the step up in trip rather than the ground that helped HOF show improved form, i hope he makes the 2000G , nice to see one keeping the Warning sire line going.
Only 2 horses have won the 2000G in the last 18 years without a Northern Dancer line sire close up in their pedigree.
Report push March 1, 2010 6:22 AM GMT
One more point that may put me off HOF, now correct me if i am wrong ( i dont know much about breeding racehorses) i only use pedigree analysis as a tool to aid my betting selections, but Firebreak finished 4th in the French 2000 Guineas, now is it not very rare for a sire to sire a horse that actually better than himself ?
So from that point of view it would be difficult / but not impossible to see HOF winning the 2000G.
Report push March 1, 2010 11:49 AM GMT
2 others points as i like to use Trends in the Classics, HOF, would be the earliest 2yo to race in the season ( March ) ROGib, the next earliest was 21st April, and HOF, would have had more races as a 2yo than any other 2000G winner, this of coarse does not stop him from winning the Guineas, indeed Mister Baileys did not have the typical profile before he won the race.
Report dominion March 1, 2010 3:50 PM GMT
Push - in my opinion,you make a number of valid and interesting points.The conclusion I draw from your discussion with Mrs SnS,is that HOF is over priced at 40's.I agree.The only point I would have a slight issue with you over,is the comment about sires not siring horses that are better than themselves.Wasn't Firebreak a better horse than Charnwood Forest ?
Normally,I would agree,but there are exceptions.
Report dominion March 1, 2010 4:17 PM GMT
Just a few to consider.Cape Cross / Sea The Stars.Waajib / Royal Applause.Cyrano de Bergerac / Millkom.Lucky Story / Art Connoisseur.
Report push March 1, 2010 4:29 PM GMT
dominion, i did not say it was impossible , just rare as the ones you have pointed out are in a small minority compared to the number of horses sired.
I do not have the ratings to hand, but Charwood Forest was a very good racehorse winning the Queen Anne at Royal Ascot , 2nd in the Lockinge and Sussex stakes, which imo are better Grp 1 races than the only Grp 1 race over a mile Firebreak won in Dubai.
dominion what is your opinion of the chances of HOF winning to 2000 Guineas ?
Report push March 1, 2010 4:46 PM GMT
SnS , do you want to breed an Oaks winner ? During my limited research looking at all the Epsom Oaks winners since 1992, they all have one thing in common on the dams side of their pedigrees .
See if you can spot what is the common link.
Report Prima Donna March 1, 2010 4:49 PM GMT
I think you will find it was the Hong Kong mile
Report push March 1, 2010 5:03 PM GMT
Indeed it was , i stand corrected. Welcome back PD . :)
Report push March 1, 2010 5:05 PM GMT
SnS, i think you have started a gamble on HOF, all the 40-1 has gone , and some firms are as short as 20-1.
Report dominion March 1, 2010 5:18 PM GMT
I am only questioning " very rare" Push.I am sure given time my list can be extended.The fact that FB finished fifth in the French Guineas would not put me off backing HOF in the English version.As for his chances I agree with Mrs SnS and Prima Donna;if he was trained by a more fashionable stable O'brien,Bolger etc he would be half the odds.When in actual fact he is in the best possible hands where he is.You don't train a13k yearling to win a Group 1,if you don't know what you're doing.
Report push March 1, 2010 5:29 PM GMT
Only 9 weeks to go to find out.
Report dominion March 1, 2010 5:37 PM GMT
If you backed him at 40's,I am sure you will be able to trade out,and have a bet to nothing before May.Good Luck.
Report push March 1, 2010 5:43 PM GMT
Yes i am on at 40-1, due mainly to SnS making such a convincing case for him and her undying enthusiasm . ( I am sure she must have shares in him )
Good luck to you :)

But Prima Donna knows who i will be cheering for come Guineas day.
Report Prima Donna March 1, 2010 5:53 PM GMT
Indeed I do Push,you will hear me laughing from the stands when both you and Ben10 burst into tears when SNA thrashes the pants off the FRAGILE one!HA HA.but good luck!
Report push March 1, 2010 6:00 PM GMT
I am on SNA at 20-1 for the Derby , if he wins the Guineas he will be 5-4 or shorter , so bring it on ;)
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 1, 2010 7:48 PM GMT
Yes Push, FB was fourth in the French Gns (demoted to sixth for Dettori's use of the whip) but I would counter that FB did not truly ever stay the mile and certainly not early in his 3yo campaign. He ran so close in mile races and indeed finally won the HK mile, on class, guts and determination.

FB progeny have surprised my in their seeming preference for greater distance at 2yo than their sire ever really needed. However, despite your thoughts on a sire getting something better than himself, it is clear that at the very least FB has improved the mare and brought out the class from further back in the pedigree.

Dom's point re Pat Eddery is a good one. I would say that it will do HOF's chances this season no harm whatsoever to be the stable star. He will be aimed at good races without fear of avoiding other owners from the same stable. Personally I feel sure that FB would have had more 'acceptable/fashionable' form had he stayed with Andrew Balding. They would have gone down a more traditional route I know.

Godolphin were very keen on the chances of Meshaheer at that stage and FB was to avoid him if at all possible. He was used extensively at home for testing other horses and was given a run if nothing more acceptable was able to run. His targets were often last minutue and fitted around higher profile horses rather than forming a coherent campaign or finding a most suitable distance for him.

Push unfortunatly I don't have shares in HOF, though I was almost tempted when I saw him on the sydincate page originally. I thought he was so like his sire. There are many stories of the ones that got away though! Including HOF's sire, who I looked at in Highflyer as a yearling in 2000.

Perhaps the change in price is people starting to look more seriously for value in a race dominated by SNA and to a lesser extent Steinbeck. It is not my money that has altered it though, I took a better price than 40-1 a little while ago ;-)
Report push March 1, 2010 8:52 PM GMT
I read your comment about HOF going straight to the Guineas, well thats a step in the right direction, as for Godolphin do you know which horses they intend to aim at the 2000 Guineas ? Given the close form with HOF, they would be wise to train Vale of York for the race.
Known Fact won the 2000 Guineas in 1980, 30 years later in 2010 can HOF be the first from that sire line to regain the title ?
Now theres a thought :D
Report jamesp March 1, 2010 9:34 PM GMT
Godolphin seem to fancy Al Zir for the Guineas (even though he would appear to have little chance of reversing the RPT form with St Nicholas Abbey). Poet's Voice is another possible Guineas runner for the Boys in Blue.
Report dominion March 1, 2010 9:56 PM GMT
Push - allow me to be a total anorak and say that Firebreak also has two strains of Tudor Minstrel in his pedigree (1947 2000gns winner).As you know this is the Hyperion line.A horse barely 15 1.5 hands high, with a totally indifferent disposition - only coming alive on the race track.Mrs SnS will know the point I am trying to make here.
Report push March 2, 2010 11:41 AM GMT
dominion at this rate i am going to have to go into the attic and get my bloodstock books out to do a refresher course. :)
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 11:48 AM GMT
Dom ;-)

Push, you could look at all the books you wish, but you still wouldn't get Doms point. If it isn't obv now it won't be (unless you read through all of this thread of course) :-)
Report push March 2, 2010 11:50 AM GMT
The comparison to HOF i would guess.
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 12:04 PM GMT
Push, I read it more as an indication to FB's own character.

The points Dom is drawing to our attention about Tudor Minstrel are his diminutive size, his laidback temp and his tough and genuine nature on the track. All of which would neatly sum up FB (and his stock).

HOF has two lines to this horse,so double his influence, and that horse was GNS winner.
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 12:06 PM GMT
In actual fact HOF has 3 lines to TM
Report Equimine.co.uk March 2, 2010 2:00 PM GMT
Mrs SnS,

I have read recent comments with fascination.
What do you believe are the chances of TM influencing Firebreak progeny, and why should you double, or treble, those chances due to the two/three lines in the pedigree?
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 3:57 PM GMT
Why do i feel as though I am stepping into an elephant trap here? But here goes...........

Equimine, I made no 'point' about Tudor Minstrel other than to explain the comment made by Dominion as I saw it. I am not aware anyone has said that HOF's chances in the Gns or his achievements to date are in any way connected to the presence of Tudor Minstrel in whatever postion in the pedigree.

However as you are a 'nick man' perhaps you could put forward your theory on the Firebreak/Mind Games cross? ( As I am sure you are aware HOF's third cross to TM comes via Mind Games)
Report Equimine.co.uk March 2, 2010 3:59 PM GMT
SnS,

I am sorry but you are incorrect there. I think "Nicks" are marketing tools only, and without sensible foundation.
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 4:08 PM GMT
My appologies if I have misunderstood you Equi. What are your thoughts on HOF's chances in the 2000, within the context of your pedigree analysis?
Report push March 2, 2010 4:48 PM GMT
If HOF were to win the Guineas he would be the youngest horse to do so since 1992 , when Rodrigo de Triano , a may foal won , since then every winner was born before the 7th of April.
The 2 winners born in April were outstanding horses, Zafonic and Sea the Stars.
Report dominion March 2, 2010 4:51 PM GMT
I have a feeling this maybe a long night ,but here goes.I threw TM's name into the ring because Push mentioned Known Fact being a previous Gns winner present in HOF's pedigree - and therefore,so I thought a positive point,for anyone doubting if he will get the mile.Add in TM and the case is strengthened,not proven,but strengthened.My own FB,brings in another line of Song and ergo another line of TM.I am not saying because of these genetic components,that my fellow is a ready made winner-merely that in terms of what it cost me to produce him,I am giving myself a fighting chance of being successful.For example I could have gone to a far more fashionable sire,at extra cost,and not produced such a good specimen - because the bloodlines are not compatible.
Report push March 2, 2010 4:55 PM GMT
I see alot of similarities between Mister Baileys and HOF.
Report dominion March 2, 2010 5:01 PM GMT
Such as ?
Report push March 2, 2010 5:01 PM GMT
I will make a list , back soon.
Report dominion March 2, 2010 5:13 PM GMT
If you're going up into that attic of yours,make sure you switch the light on.
Report push March 2, 2010 5:16 PM GMT
1, Only Mr B, and Kings Best did not have a N.Dancer line sires close up in their pedigrees .
2, Mr B and HOF are both out of mares sired by sprinters
3, Mr B, won a GRP 3 race over 7f, followed by a Grp 2 race over 1 mile.
HOF won a Grp 3 race over 7f, followed by an Italian Grp 1 over 1 mile. ( Prob = to an English Grp 2 )
Both were trained by up an coming trainers.
I expect HOF will start around 16-1 in the betting just like Mr B.
Both are sired by dare i say perhaps not the most fashionable sires ( at least not yet ).
Both sired by horses that won up to Grp 2 level as 2yos.
Hope that is enough.
Report dominion March 2, 2010 5:51 PM GMT
Can I add both going without a prep run ?Also both ridden by Jason Weaver (just joking Mrs SnS !!!).
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 6:05 PM GMT
Dom, I think I would still prefer Jason Weaver to Paul Eddery!
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 6:07 PM GMT
HOF won a Grp 3 race over 7f, followed by an Italian Grp 1 over 1 mile. ( Prob = to an English Grp 2 )

Do you really think the form of the race upholds that view? Maybe on a normal running but last year?
Report push March 2, 2010 6:35 PM GMT
Vale of York , was beaten in the Royal Lodge Grp 2 , so yes !
Report push March 2, 2010 6:48 PM GMT
I backed Grand Lodge at 50-1 for that Guineas in the days before Betfair, i hate Jason Weaver :0
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 6:52 PM GMT
On that reckoning then Push, the BC races are UK Gr2's as well?!

Paul Coles horse was also beaten in a UK Gr 2 by about 1 1/2l, HOF beat him in his Gr1 by 5l and a nk. The form of that Italian race does stand up against more 'credible' pattern races. Refer to my quote from Timeform above.
Report push March 2, 2010 7:08 PM GMT
Yes i knew you would come back with that and they probably are.
Donativum, won the BC Juvenile , and never won a good European race, the 2nd horse Westphalia, ran fair races in theFrench Classics, and Johannesburg BC Juvenile , never won another race after that.
Also Vale of York , had only won a Listed race before he was 2nd in the Italian Grp 1.
Report push March 2, 2010 7:12 PM GMT
Mana Keranjang , beaten 5 lengths, now you know soft ground is always going to make the winning distance extended compared to fast ground.
Report push March 2, 2010 7:12 PM GMT
Mana Keranjang , beaten 5 lengths, now you know soft ground is always going to make the winning distance extended compared to fast ground.
Report push March 2, 2010 7:13 PM GMT
Mana Keranjang , beaten 5 lengths, now you know soft ground is always going to make the winning distance extended compared to fast ground.
Report push March 2, 2010 7:17 PM GMT
As for Timeform, if you only use their ratings , how do you explain how Pennekamp beat Celtic Swing ? Time will tell and after the Guineas we can probably have a good laugh at my expense.
Report push March 2, 2010 7:18 PM GMT
Gees i seem to be repeating myself.
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 8:49 PM GMT
Push, form can be argued every which way for hours on end. But I will sum up my thoughts by merely saying that there are few horses going to HQ on May 1st that have already shown high/top level form. Some of those horses are shorter prices and some of the others at shorter prices have nothing like the form of HOF. Trainers and pedigrees do not win races, horses do.

Personally I cannot see past SNA, and if the final 200yds becomes a neck and neck race between him and HOF my loyalties will be very much divided!
Report dominion March 2, 2010 9:16 PM GMT
Will we all be going to Newmarket in May ?
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 2, 2010 9:25 PM GMT
I'll be there Dom, will you Push?
Report Equimine.co.uk March 3, 2010 9:33 AM GMT
SnS,
I have briefly looked at HOFs pedigree.

I think that it is at this stage quite difficult to quantify with any degree of confidence. We only have two progeny from the first dam, one good the other pretty poor. So at this point I would just view her as a neutral element.

The second dam, Dayville, firstly might suggest some stamina limitations. However, HOF appears to have dispelled these. From a sample size of 84 (just short of the ideal minimum of 100) she returns (as a dam) an average rating of 65 with an Impact Value of 0.99 (an IV of 1.00 is par/average).

Mind Games has to my mind proved himself to be a below average dam sire. His Impact Value is 0.93, from a sample size of 484 averaging 59.5. He suggests a mile to 9 furlongs would be HOFs maximum trip. Mind Games highest rated, as a dam sire, prior to HOF; was 108.

Firebreak is of course difficult to assess. We only have two year old runnings obviously. The other elements of HOFs pedigree suggest there should be no problems concerning not training on, but do not expect significant improvement. In his only season to date Firebreak averaged 59.5 giving an Impact Value of 0.92 which for a first season sire is pretty good (Shamardal averaged 69.5 on my ratings). The sample size was 81; obviously HOFs rating of 115 was his highest.

The ill fated Charnwood Forest averaged 58.55 with an IV of 0.93 from a sample size of over 2000. Again trip of a mile to nine furlongs.

All in all the suggestion is that the pedigree does not have the class for the Guineas, and that HOF has already outrun his pedigree. My view is he might make the prize money staying on past the usual non staying runners.

Having said that if I was Bearstone I would be using HOFs pedigree to market Firebreak. Point out how it is comprised largely of average, or slightly below average elements, but HOF is well above average. Conclusion, Firebreak is responsible for the ability shown by HOF. I am not as such saying this is definitely the case, HOF may well just be a freak case, but I certainly believe Bearstone are missing a trick.
Report dominion March 3, 2010 10:35 AM GMT
Your observations are very interesting E.co.uk .I wouldn't argue with any of them.Can I ask you a question ?If Firebreak has shown the ability to up grade the moderate mares that have been sent to him so far,could we not assume given better bred mares (with the right bloodlines and confirmation),FB could well sire a horse even better than HOF ?For me FB has punched above his weight both on the track and in the breeding shed.But because he isn't fashionable the good mares wil not arrive at Bearstone.As you point out,they are missing a golden opportunity to promote this stallion......oh well,several of us on this forum,have flown the flag for him,but what else can you do ?
Report dominion March 3, 2010 10:42 AM GMT
Incidentally,I paid less for my nomination to him this year than I did before he bred two black type winners from a handful of runners.Strange.
Report push March 3, 2010 11:46 AM GMT
SnS, no i will not be going to the Guineas meeting, i have been to all the other Newmarket meetings in my time, but do not enjoy the traveling these days. I went to last years Craven meeting, but it was freezing, Champions Day is my favourite at Newmarket. I hope the weather improves for your trip to HQ. :)
Report Stormbird March 3, 2010 11:51 AM GMT
My friend has an unraced Mind Games filly , i suggested he send her to Firebreak, it not only turns out he is sending her to Firebreak but he is also the vet for the Stud where Firebreak is standing. Talk about teaching yoor Grandmother to suck eggs.
Report Equimine.co.uk March 3, 2010 1:14 PM GMT
dominion,

Your comments regarding the "fee" do seem a bit odd, even allowing for a general trend towards lower, still unrealistic, fees.

Without looking at each mare individually I could not say that Firebreak does upgrade his mares. We have developed a mare rating system, but as it can by its very nature only include one new addition per annum it is far from foolproof. Apart from HOF's dam there are only 18 others I believe. Will try and look at them at some point in the next week or so.
Report push March 3, 2010 5:25 PM GMT
Dont forget Electric Feel the filly FB, sired out of a MGs mare, she won the Listed Radley Stakes at Newbury.
I have just got the brochure from Bearstone Stud.
Firebreak " Group 1 Champion Miler - Group 1 Sire ".
Report dominion March 3, 2010 5:52 PM GMT
Don't worry Push no one has forgotten.Give us some credit.
Report Equimine.co.uk March 4, 2010 1:49 PM GMT
I have looked at FB's mares(excluding HOF's).

In summary their average rating is 62.42, with an Impact Value of 1.08. This covers from 1996 to 2009.

I will be interested to see the views of upgrading his mares or not?
Report Prima Donna March 4, 2010 3:44 PM GMT
Eqimine.co.uk,All of your stats do make for interesting reading,meanwhile back in the real world most of us breeders just look at a stallion, we see if they are a good sort if they look the sort to get a winner from our mares and then look at the stud fee.
With some luck it does work, both in the sale ring and later on the racecourse.
As for Firebreak from what we have seen so far from only one crop to race I think he has upgraded HOF dam as she has had no winners at all before HOF he has gone beyond anything in his pedigree.
All the dosage, stamina index stats I for one just bin them as imo they are just stats and are no use at all in the real world,only for anoraks to spout off,they are animals and you cant really put stats on them!
Report Equimine.co.uk March 4, 2010 3:58 PM GMT
PD,

I totally agree with you about Dosage & Stamina Indices. They are selective in respect of Dosage to ridiculous extremes, and SI only deals with winners of races not the quality of the performances.
That is why we deal in the real world of business, which is where a breeder trades, and aim to eliminate luck as far as possible.
Report Prima Donna March 4, 2010 4:19 PM GMT
Equimine.co.uk,You will always need a touch of luck when breeding horses,even with a PHD in TB breeding you can spend days weeks researching all the pros and cons of a mares pedigree and select the best possible stallion,only to see it flop on the racecourse,it really is like that,all you need to see this is a trip to HITS at tatts,
You have asked for opionions on if Firebreak upgrades his mares from the evidence of your results of analyising his mares. But as you don't explain what your ratings mean that is a hard conclusion to draw.
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 4, 2010 6:29 PM GMT
Equimine, please disregard the posts by Prima Donna. I have recently come to understand that my fool of a husband has been having a game with me and posting as Prima Donna.

It is interesting what you say about FB, though I am a little confused as to whether you are saying FB upgrades his mares in general? I would venture that he appears to, though I wonder what impact he has on stamina? I am surprised that they seem to want a trip, though perhaps that could be explained by being used to inject 'cheap speed' onto low grade staying mares? Perhaps he may be more like Machiavellian who didn't really get any horses over a specific distance.
Report RipVanWinkle March 4, 2010 9:16 PM GMT
I hope he is not one of those horses who has a good first season with limited books then people send him mares and he completely flops and then gets sold off
Report Equimine.co.uk March 5, 2010 6:21 AM GMT
SnS,

I think it is very difficult to have a clear view concerning Firebreak. The mares he has covered to date are clearly, in my opinion, a little above average for their market to date. A bit like saying that X horse is a good 0-70 handicapper,wins consistently in that grade but obviously not capable of much better. Or would they produce above average progeny if covered by better stallions. I could tell from checking their dam sire records, but I doubt anybody on this thread is willing to pay!

If PD really is your husband and he has questions tell him to check out the website, I would imagine you can guess the address.
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 5, 2010 6:43 AM GMT
Equimine, That is interesting re mares good for their level, but almost 'stuck' there. I would imagine that those mares would not go to better stallions purely due to commercial factors. Unless of course Firebreak managed to get them a Gr 1 winner! ;-)

As for your last line, Yes PD really is my husband, but I will not be encouraging him to look at your site as he will no longer be posting on here. However I will look at it myself and perhaps give him my thoughts on it!
Report dominion March 5, 2010 8:57 AM GMT
I am delighted to report that my colt has done really well since I last saw him (Jan 28th).Quiet as a lamb off the gallop,very professional on it.Along with a multitude of others I will make the initial entry for the SuperSprint at Newbury.With respect to Equimine's observations earlier,may I add that,one thing Firebreak definitely does do is stamp his stock.My personal conclusion based on this fact is that,breeders have therefore a far greater chance of producing a horse with ability.Yesterday was a very good day - despite Primagate.
Report Slick'N'Smooth March 5, 2010 1:44 PM GMT
That is good to hear Dom. Will he be out early?

I would agree about FB stamping his stock. I am going to closely watch his sales horses this year to see if the Buyers are willing to accept a smallish FB as 'thats what he gets'. If they do, I have a mare for him next year that I would normally choose a bulky horse for, but if the FB's are accepted as a type then she would suit him well otherwise.

Regarding 'Primagate' Dom I am going to carefuly re-read his posts on this thread and use them as evidence! I may even send his beloved mare to FB next season as punishment.................:-)
Report dominion March 5, 2010 5:36 PM GMT
If FB is transferred to Ireland next year(and I don't think you'll get fancy prices against it) it will be even easier to send a mare to him.The boy won't be out early,early.Two runs prior to Newbury hopefully.I am ever the optomist !!!
Report Young Broodmare Filly Wanted March 12, 2010 6:10 PM GMT
More entries this year for big 2 year old races than last year at this stage. R Hannon filly catches my eye, and Mr Eddery has another firebreak to run, fingers crossed another HOF
Report Slick'N'Smooth April 28, 2010 10:28 PM BST
Looking forward to Saturday! May see you by the Winners Dom ;-)

I see that HOF's sister has been named and entered in the Two Year Old Trophy. Not with Saeed though.

Electric Feel in the Coronation so Marco Botti must feel she is of that class and would hope to have trained on.

YFBW, I have recently been to England and visited my Misu Bond foal. She has improved greatly and I am very happy with her. She is strong, square and a typical Misu. He certainly stamps them, she is the same as the foals I saw at the sales. How is your colt getting on?
Report Young Broodmare Filly Wanted April 29, 2010 12:15 AM BST
Hi slick, we have our Misu Bond Colt at home and we are very pleased with him. I will try and get a good picture for you and upload to website. Misu Bond has stamped him also not as leggy and much stronger looking than her previous foals.

We have a filly by Misu Bond too and a yearling who is a real looker so fingers crossed he does well.

We had our first sad event since starting 4 years ago Magical Music lost her Firebreak foal during labour :( thankfully she looks to have made a full recovery and is due to see Firebreak very soon
Report Slick'N'Smooth April 29, 2010 10:06 PM BST
YBFW,I am sorry to hear that you lost your Firebreak foal. It is so disappointing to lose them so late on when you have been looking forward to having them. Dare I ask if it was a colt or a filly? I hope the mare gets in foal quickly for you.

I would be very interested to see updated photos of your Misu foal, he was bigger than my filly at birth so he should be really nice now. I can see every reason for Misu to do well, his foals are so much like the Danehill Dancer's. He is def a stallion that people should not dismiss too quickly.
Report Young Broodmare Filly Wanted April 29, 2010 10:46 PM BST
It was a colt :( Bit of a blow as our most commercial horse too.

Our yearling Misu Bond is a little small but growing all the time I will get an updated picture of him too. The foal is going to be a nice size. He gallops around the field like he owns the place really nice mover, team at Hedgeholme also commented on this. The same mare is back in foal to him. We have everything crossed Dandy Nichols does the biz with his half brother 2 year old.
Report Panther65 May 1, 2010 4:49 PM BST
ff
Report dominion May 1, 2010 10:09 PM BST
I have to say the run of Hearts Of Fire was extremely disappointing.The pre race vibes were correct.I would also have to say,I wasn't knocked out by his appearance beforehand.Didn't carry much condition,smallish,nothing of any note about him.The future does not look overly bright.
Report ben10 May 1, 2010 10:16 PM BST
What he did last year was incredible and he's a real credit to his sire, remember no horse has won the Guineas after the Brocklesby for over a 100 years so there's no shame in that. Firebreak just needs a few more like that, let's hope we see a couple come through this year.
Report dominion May 1, 2010 10:21 PM BST
Unlikely to see another HOF emerge from his two yr olds (apart from my own,of course)because he will have so few two yr olds (11 fillies,7 colts).I doubt very much that he has trained on.He looked like a boy against men.
Report ben10 May 1, 2010 10:24 PM BST
Does he really only have 18 two year olds this year!?
Report potentialmillionaire May 1, 2010 10:35 PM BST
Well he might not have trained on, him and St N A both! However he must get the benefit as Dad was always little and light and he was competitive over a very long period so this fella could still come good again.
Report dominion May 2, 2010 1:47 PM BST
Ben - Yes.
PM- I hope you are right.Do you know that none of his three yr olds have won yet ?
Report Young Broodmare Filly Wanted May 8, 2010 9:19 PM BST
First 3 year old winner today, class 3 so not too bad a race to get off mark with 3 year olds.
Report dominion May 8, 2010 9:33 PM BST
The first glimmer of light !Full sister to HOF hopefully runs this week too.
Report Young Broodmare Filly Wanted May 8, 2010 9:36 PM BST
i hope so my mare was covered end of April....
Report dominion May 9, 2010 1:51 PM BST
My own mare has not been able to get in foal to Firebreak - problem with cyst apparently.If does not click this time (third visit)she will have to go empty this year.Disappointing,as my two yr old by Fb is doing very well - will run before the month is out.Hope your mare tests in foal YBFW.
Report Young Broodmare Filly Wanted May 16, 2010 9:57 PM BST
hi slick pictures updated re my 2 Misu Bond colts.  Firebreak gets another decent 3 year old winner too :)
Report Slick'N'Smooth May 17, 2010 10:00 PM BST
YBFW, Thanks for highlighting your updates.

Your foal has really done well and looks a good sort. The latest photos I have seen of my Misu Bond it has also done very well and looks extremely strong and an early type. It now looks like the foals I saw at Tatts last year. Like yours a white face and also two white legs. It looks just like a Danehill Dancer foal,with an enormously powerful backside. She has a bit of 'something' about her, just a bit of presence that not all of them have. Almost certainly we will retain her to sell next year as a yearling and if she doesn't make her money then I may race her. She certainly looks a runner!

Good luck with your mare scanning to Firebreak. It is nice to see him having couple of 3yo winning for him now.

Dom, I agree about HOF at the Gns, though he was not as short of scope as I may have expected. Perhaps he can show improvement for his first run in the SJP. Pat Eddery reports that he had a 'bit of a cough' after Newmarket.

Does anyone have any news on En Fuego? I had my eye on this horse last season, but I noticed he was pulled up on Saturday. Do we have an explanation for that?
Report Equimine.co.uk May 18, 2010 7:06 AM BST
Tom Queally thought there was something wrong with En Fuego during the race, he seemed fine a few hours later.
Report dominion May 18, 2010 10:13 AM BST
I was at Doncaster on Saturday night.Hot Spark a better looking individual than HOF.HOF no presence,no substance - unfortunately.Have not seen my own fellow for awhile now.Being working well,due to run next few weeks.Lets hope he is one of the good ones.Then I can tell everyone,I knew he was going to be good from day one !(Breeders perogative).
Report potentialmillionaire May 18, 2010 9:55 PM BST
Damn right it is Dominion!! Good luck.
Report dominion May 18, 2010 10:16 PM BST
Thanks PM.
Report dominion June 1, 2010 11:01 PM BST
Is the boy starting to have a few winners now ?
Report Prima Donna June 2, 2010 10:20 AM BST
He sure needs them,his daughter Electric Feel looked outclassed the other day as well,Slick will hate me for saying this but I think FB will fizzle out,this season really is make or break for him,its a pity but as they say that's life.
I think its very hard for any stallion to make it, but one with such a out-cross pedigree will always find it harder.
Report dominion June 2, 2010 12:12 PM BST
Interesting that his two best horses of last season don't seem to have maintained their form,much less progressed.Perhaps their mental and physical advantage has been lost,as their contemporaries seem to have caught them up.Yet I thought it would have been the opposite.Maybe they will come back to form as four year olds.Complicated.
Report Ruffian234 June 15, 2010 6:03 PM BST
Hearts of Fire put up a very nice performance. He'd surely have been closer with a clear run but with the likes of canford cliffs/dick turpin/loupe de vega running at a mile later in the season he loks up against it to land a big one.
Report Slick'N'Smooth June 21, 2010 10:57 PM BST
What a run for HOF last week. I was cursing Richard Hughes for not letting him out! For all that the talk is of Canford Cliffs' electric turn of foot, my eyes told me that HOF was going with him. My money wasn't on him this time and I am ashamed to say that I had almost written off his chances after his poor show at HQ.

Electric Feel was disapointing, though I am not convinced that was her true running. She still has to prove she has trained on.

Dom, A run that was not without promise [;)]
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