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THE CLIMATE CHANGE MYTH that Julia wants us all to pay for
THE CLIMATE CHANGE MYTH that Julia wants us all to pay for
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Direct Action that doesn't add up?
What because its not a big tax to satisfy your socialist needs, wombleoz? Thats it , isn't it? It's not a big juicy tax! awwwwwwww, isn't it a shame the public aren't the mugs you'd hoped they were? They're not buying the nonsense wombleoz. Not yours, not Combet's or Gillard's. You seem to be afraid of doing something for the environment that will actually yield a result. You know real outcomes. A real difference in the environment. You want to talk about numbers that don't add up? The Coalition's policy is 100% and fully costed and detailed. But what doesn't add up is the $1500 plus that working Australian's will have to pay (when they're already struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table) and the fact that this tax serves no environmental purpose WHATSOEVER. |
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It's not a scare campaign, its the truth.
The truth you don't want to talk about. Even when your spin-doctors start to reveal the truth about this tax and its outcomes (Tim Flannery) - you play avoidance at all costs. No details, no numbers. Just heavy-handed lies and spin. Shame on you and shame on this Labor-Green Coalition. |
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direct action has a 30 billion hole in it's costings - i.e. it doesn't add up
post a link to the whole quote from Tim Flannery and I'll have a look - although you still don't seem to understand how hypocritical you are on this, surely if we can't do anything to fix the problem you should be against direct action as well i'll wait for the figures re the price on carbon and compensation before discussing the costs to households any further |
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Well you were just trumpeting compensation, wombleoz. Where are the details?
 Thats right, Gillard Labor has NO DETAILS. Just lies and spin. The Direct Action policy has a $30 billion hole in its costings according to the government, the Labor Party...ffs In relation to "you should be against Direct Action as well". This has been discussed over and over and over and you continue to ask, ffs. Direct Action includes projects like a massive tree-planting program - which is a positive for the environment. Yes it reduces Carbon Dioxide, but that aside, its a win for the environment. Thats just one small piece of the policy. A Carbon Dioxide Tax trys to somehow, in someway, cut carbon emissions via a great big tax - and like we heard from Tim Flannery - we're not going to see a result for up to a thousand years. It's sounds like a con, smells like a con.....and IT IS a con. Not to a mention a great big fat lie from Julia Gillard. |
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http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/mtr_today_march_25/
Andrew Bolt conducted the interview with Tim Flannery on MTR. Part transcript is at the above address. Think what you will of Bolt, but he asked the questions of Flannery and his answers were, well, very enlightening. Flannery: "Just let me finish and say this. If the world as a whole cut all emissions tomorrow the average temperature of the planet is not going to drop in several hundred years, perhaps as much as a thousand years because the system is overburdened with CO2 that has to be absorbed and that only happens slowly." |
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are you serious, your source for the quote is one of biggest climate change deniers out there - unbelievable"part transcript is at the above address" obviously the rest of it doesn't fit his argument |
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Wombleoz.
Do everyone a favour and read posts thoroughly. Andrew Bolt conducted the interview on MTR radio in Melbourne. Tim Flannery didn't have to participate but he chose to - and Bolt didn't put words in his mouth - Tim Flannery stated that the likely effects of ceasing all carbon dioxide emissions today would maybe effect the planet in a thousand years time. |
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Let me get this straight wombleoz.
Because Bolt conducted an interview on his radio show, Flannery's words are to be ignored? Was he nervous or something? Did he mean 10 years, not 1000 years? I mean, ffs. Is this right? Is that what your suggesting? Desperation. |
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context is everything Jez and after seeing Bolt on Insiders this morning the context became clear - he would've asked his now standard question "how much will the planet cool as a result of introducing the carbon tax
?" the answer - as Tim Flannery said, it won't, we've done too much damage already BUT we can potentially slow the rate of warming |
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You've got nothing wombleoz. Tim Flannery says a Carbon Dioxide Tax will yield a result in 1000 years and you try and spin yourself out of trouble. You blame the interviewer, the "deniers", Andrew Bolt...the public...lol Who next will you blame or accuse of being a "scare mongerer"? The Carbon Dioxide tax is maximum pain for zero environmental gain - thats the bottom line - and now amount of lies that you weave can hide it. |
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that is....NO amount of lies that you weave can hide it!
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Suppose the result of a carbon tax is irrelevant to someone like you wombleoz.
Because its not about an environmental impact. It's about the TAX. All about the TAX. You reject real action from existing revenue - where we'll see real results and the environment will become cleaner and greener. But your happy to slap down working Australians for a Carbon Dioxide Tax that will take a thousand years to yield a result. [smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy] |
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Where's Abbott going to find 500 million Hectares????
[smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy] |
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Nothing constructive to say AFL, ffs.
Clearly nothing to show for the last 4 years of Rudd-Gillard Labor. This is a government behaving more like an Opposition than anything else. |
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oops you did address it,, sort of - sorry about that
price trigger is the best way to get results, just ask Turnbull  |
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price triggers ... ffs guys dream on lol
*** Billions of dollars raised by Australia's carbon tax will end up overseas, helping poor countries battle climate change. Prime Minister Julia Gillard's new tax will be used to allow Australia to meet its share of a $100 billion-a-year United Nations fund to transfer wealth from rich countries to help undeveloped nations adapt to global warming. *** the UN ... or our govt ... have NO intention of stopping the problem the idea of the tax is for revenue ... a yearly fund lol ... nothing more nothing less and when they're getting that revenue ... they won't ''want' the problem to DISSAPEAR but believe what you like ... altruism ... greening the globe ... blah blah blah a money grab is all ... and its BIG and we were told by gillard before we voted ... she wouldn't bring it in ... end of story till the bill's introduced and voted on ... but it won't be forgotten |
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http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a
/-/latest/8916664/carbon-tax- billions-to-help-poor-nations/ |
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adapt lol ... not fix ... which was never the intention ... all lies from the govt that i can see
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agenda 21 [:o]
one world government just a step away Thebas - I'm scared [smiley:crazy] interesting the WA Nats are considering putting a price on carbon - suspended a vote on the motion, they are very split on it - what way will Tony Crook vote??? http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/wa-nats-could-support-carbon-price-20110403-1ct0n.html |
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lol womble ... its a funny thing a proposed one world govt ... and when it was suggested somewhere i
had to think huh wtf cause it couldn't be an elected world govt lol ... with an office somewhere with public servants etc so the only conclusion to come to is it would be purely a control mechanism ... not a 'real' govt as we know it at all nothing to do with a nations elections etc but sitting in the background ... calling the shots ... demanding money or a percentage of each nation's wealth SORTA LIKE WHAT THE UN IS DEMANDING FROM OZ WITH THE ... CARBON TAX LOL hey maybe its started ... and julia has already signed us up for billions EACH YEAR ... from a TAX that will do nothing for the environment ps price triggers only work ... if you can go ... hey Product A costs too much ... so i will now buy Product B but as well know ... with the carbon debate ... there is NO product B (Julia is just hoping there will be a company come along at some point in the future ... and spend their money to FIx it all ) |
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Don't expect a response from wombleoz, besides maybe a "whatever" - he doesn't get it - he won't respond to facts.
Even with the realisation that a Carbon Dioxide Tax won't make an ounce of difference to the environment - but maybe in 1000 years - wombleoz continues to flog this dead horse. Baaaaa Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - isn't that right womble? Too busy trying to find far-fetched support from the WA Nationals - by speculating that a delayed vote means support for a carbon tax. Fkn hell. Clearly desperate times for the "global warming" "climate change" movement. The cat is well and truly OUT of the bag. People can't afford another tax - people are already battling to make ends meet. |
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Thebas - the agenda 21 rubbish is just that, rubbish - sure we will contribute to the UN, just like we always have but to think that's what the carbon tax is about is way off the mark.
price increases for dirty energy will make the alternatives more attractive WA Nats a very sensible bunch on some policies - they supported the flood levy and now potentially want a price on carbon |
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but to think that's what the carbon tax is about is way off the mark.
let's hope so womble ... let's hope julia is honest in her action here giving away part of our earned wealth ... let's hope that this is not just a huge money grab ... let's hope they actually DO something for the planet ... rather than just take the money off nations and then move the money around ... let's hope the beneficiaries of the re-distributed wealth actually use more than 50% on the stated cause (after administrative deductions etc) ... let's hope ... because that's all we can do here |
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To wombleoz, "hope" equals paying a tax that might achieve something in a thousands years - whilst crippling working Australian's, the economy and jobs.
Please don't use that dirty word - "hope" - please thebas[;)] |
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lol jez ... the filthy tax is "so filthy" ... especially now we know that it was demanded of us ... and will be expected of our honest hardworking taxpaying citizens to cough up each year ...
this is NOT a contribution that we have always gladly done in the past to help others less fortunate this is a brand new TAX ... this is an 'expected chip in' to some dubious re-distribution plan ... where WHO will decide who gets the first crop of the funds ... will it go to a UN vote (like some olympic games bid) ... where WHO is deciding all this ... and which bank will get to 'store' the funds pending their re-distribution (which might show up some new stakeholders in all this nonsense) and then with an expected outcome for the 'environment' of probably zero ... yet i'm still 'hoping' lol |
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What is killing Labor politically is the severe cost of living pressures - and the fact a Carbon Dioxide Tax will bump it up even more - $860 is a conservative projection from Treasury on the impact on households annually.
People are asking themselves - I spoke to a diehard Labor supporter at work today and even she stated - where am I going to find the extra money to pay more for groceries, petrol, electricity and gas? Two questions are resonating in the elecorate right now - How will I afford to pay this tax when I'm strapped now? and How will this precisely help the environment? Labor is making a dogs breakfast of selling the idea of a carbon dioxide tax - and the comments from Tim Flannery and the "thousand years to yield a result" certainly doesn't help. Bottom line, this tax will struggle to get through the Parliament - but if it does - it will be repealed when the Coalition wins the next election. |
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BTW, I agree with your thoughts 110% thebas.
I'm all for (and I'm sure you are too) a cleaner and greener environment - that is not disputed. A cleaner environment is a good thing. But what beggars belief is that this Carbon Dioxide Tax is fundamentally flawed. The environmental benefits may POSSIBLY be felt in 1000 years time with a microscopic change in temperature. It makes my blood boil the more I look into this carbon dioxide tax. I know people scoff at the suggestion, but it seems more of a wealth re-distribution exercise than anything else (Gillard has suggested all revenue will go to "compensation" for LOW income earners). ffs..........Working Australian's are being slammed from pillor to post from the "Working Class" party, Labor. It hasn't stopped. They wasted billions on an "education revolution" and Pink Batts - and then the taxes came - a FLOOD tax, a MINING tax and now a CARBON tax. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr[>o] |
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Then you hear half-witted latte sipping socialists like wombleoz pipe up and say "I love taxes, bring it on, its all good
"ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH....FFS!!!!! Makes me angry this thread/topic  |
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just keep ignoring the compensation Jez [smiley:crazy]
Thebas - people keep saying if the rest of the world doesn't act there will be no benefit, some countries will need help to act, it's only fair we provide that help IMO |
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i hear ya womble ... but like jez & prob secong ... it's actually makes me sick thinking about all this
we first thought we were going to stop co2 emmissions ... thus stopping any (supposed) accumulation in the atmosphere ... the original declared problem then we found out there is nothing any one is doing to actually provide an alternative then we find out the UN is starting up a monetary 'expected' fund (earmarking $110 billion a year in total from certain western world countries) then we find we are expected to 'chip in' a certain amount from Oz and that if we don't get this from the propsed carbon tax ... then any shortfall has to come from our consolidated revenue i just hope julia ... or any responsible leader of any nation co-erced into this ... asks for the following i) an independent (ie non UN) audit of where every dollar came from by country and how much has been collected in total ii) who and why a particular nation has been selected to receive from these funds iii) that the UN themselves oversee the 'spending' of any allocated funds within the beneficiary nation iv) a public report on what each dollar was spent on in the receiving nation ... and what each project was and is beginning and end to just give over our hard-earned $$$ and HOPE that the receiving party spends their allocated dollars responsibly is wishful at best however ... i don't expect too much transparency in how this will be handled at all if there is still a chance our nation can wake up and stop this fiscal wastage futility ... then that is what i will be 'hoping' for really |
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Have to run this one past u guys and see what u think.
Was listening to A Jones a few years ago during the drought it was towards the end of it ..He was interveiwing a guy who designed the Snowy River Mountain Scheme...because there were complaints about it failing during the drought...The at time he was either the assistant Dean or the Dean of Monash Uni..Anyway he told Alan that the storage was designed for a 7 year drought and we were in our 10th year...Then Alan asked him a Queston on climate change and carbon credits.... The guy said we ve long know what causes it Alan...This was his explanation and it's the only one that I believe....He said not only do the planets travel around the Sun but our Solar System travels through space as well at some 30 odd thousand klms per minute or what ever the figure was ...He said as we go through space we run across dirty space..as we go through this dirty space the oceans cool and expell carbon into the atmosphere...Then we hit clear space and the oceans warm up and suck the carbon back into it...This why we get fluctuations over millenia... Now I have not heard this discussed in any way shape or form through the media or politically....why? By the way he said in a couple of years it will be back to normal....That was about 3 years ago. |
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I hear Specsavers are pretty good Optometrists, wombleoz.
You might want to PAY THEM A FKN VISIT. Read below paragraph from my above post. "I know people scoff at the suggestion, but it seems more of a wealth re-distribution exercise than anything else (Gillard has suggested all revenue will go to "compensation" for LOW income earners). " Oh and wombleoz, I love this line of yours, "people keep saying if the rest of the world doesn't act there will be no benefit" - yeah, have you heard what Tim Flannery has said in recent weeks? He said if we all pay a great big carbon dioxide tax and in part we "to be fair" help out other nations - EVEN, if we stopped all emissions COMPLETELY - it would take a thousand years for a result. ONE THOUSAND YEARS. Tim Flannery, Climate Commissioner and Australian of the Year said this himself. So, I'm intrigued - what "benefit" exactly are we reaping for the environment in a Carbon Dioxide Tax, wombleoz? Do tell? |
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i'm tipping the IMF will get the funds ... for safekeeping ... they've just about run out propping up europe
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There are lots of home truths on climate change that are tucked away and locked up nice and tight by the media, lazza.
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sounds as reasonable Lazza ... as anything i've heard from the rest of the speculation ... cause all anyone is doing is speculating ... on the ups & downs of the temp graphs and the computer model predictions
to tax this is unfathomable ... and then for Oz to give part of this taxation away to ... well WHO REALLY KNOWS ... is even more confounding a hoax and money grab of such proportion ... it is quite staggering (and quite briliant in a deviant perverse way) ... let our resolve to stop this not weaken lol |
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It is the hidden hand at work!!
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The core fundamental is that, a carbon dioxide tax that will cause great pain for your wallet, but will do absolutely nothing for its primary purpose - tackling "global warming" or "climate change".
Distribute the money, pool the money, compensate people, pay other countries to carbon tax their people - its irrelevant to the fundamental truth. Why are we doing this, Australia? Hope? Our Children? Another Revenue Stream? Lets be honest with ourselves. ffs, we're better than this. |
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If we want to clean up the environment - lets do it.
I'm keen. But lets do something that will achieve something. This Carbon Dioxide Tax is a joke. |
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Support for the government has crashed.
The Coalition leads Labor, 55% to 45% Two party preferred. I'd suggest this Carbon Dioxide Tax is creating multiple political headaches for the government - its an abomination. |
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you would have to think the proposed carbon tax is a factor in that for sure
i wonder why those at the highest levels couldn't just do something positive ... the UN has scientists etc of all persuasions on their payroll ... why not just try and kick start the development of an alternative source ... run it like the old style govt utility (and use the filthy tax for investment) ... then when operational in 5 -10 years or so sell it off to private enterprise (like selling electricity utilities, water utilities, t@b's etc) and get their money back just giving the money away to assist adaption rather than change eats at the very heart of the proposal |